Self-actualization

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Just a question brought to my mind while in an argument about Communism with my girlfriend, how would a Socialist government go about keeping workers below the level of self-actualization, and hence keep them motivated?

[cumbia]

to live in peace. When that day comes, holla back.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

So wait. You're saying that in the absence of war there is no motivation for workers to work, as self-actualization has been achieved?

[Janus]

By allowing them to do the type of work that they want to and allowing them solve problems and have control over their environment in ways that capitalism could never allow for.

[bezdomni]

Depends on how you intend to achieve "self-actualization."

Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is bullshit.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

By allowing them to do the type of work that they want to and allowing them solve problems and have control over their environment in ways that capitalism could never allow for.
How on earth does that prevent them achieving self-actualization?


Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs is bullshit.
How so? I don't do business but it seems to make sense. It also seems to work.

[Janus]

How on earth does that prevent them achieving self-actualization?
It doesn't. But how would preventing self-actualization help to keep people motivated?

[Qwerty Dvorak]

It doesn't. But how would preventing self-actualization help to keep people motivated?
Well the idea is that, as self-actualization is the highest level of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs, when someone achieves self-actualization they no longer have anything to aspire to. Thus, they will lack motivation.

[Janus]

when someone achieves self-actualization they no longer have anything to aspire to. Thus, they will lack motivation.
Once someone has achieved self-actualization, it doesn't mean that they are no longer without problems and needs in life. It just means that they have achieved a point in their personality/life in which they have become much more conscious/aware and relate to the world differently than most other people. Those who fit Maslow's criteria such as Einstein and William James certainly did not become bored, apathetic, and unmotivated once they reached the stage of self-actualization.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

They never reached self-actualization; both their genius and their curiosity ensured that. They always had something to strive for. Also, just because someone has problems and needs in life doesn't mean they are motivated by these needs to work. The fact remains that they have nothing to strive for in terms of work or money.

[Janus]

The fact remains that they have nothing to strive for in terms of work or money.
Both Einstein and James still had motivations in their work and someone who has reached self-actualization could branch out or seek more creative avenues in their work. After all, that is what characterizes the self-actualized.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Some work just doesn't have too many creative avenues. But yes, they are going to seek ways to be creative; what if their work doesn't accommodate them in that regard? Won't they just end up neglecting their work?

[Janus]

Some work just doesn't have too many creative avenues.
I doubt that someone who has reached this stage would want to work in such work to begin with.


Won't they just end up neglecting their work?
Anyone who has become bored with their work will probably neglect it which is why they need to seek more challenging and creative work.

The self-actualized population was estimated by Maslow to be only around 2% and this population would naturally only be doing the most creative and challenging work out there.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

But my point is that Communism seems to bring all workers to the stage of self-actualization by its very nature. And so we have a lot more than 2% of the population neglecting their work in order to find "creative outlets".

[jaycee]

the point is that any work which cannot give any pleasure to anyone doing it would be more and more rare under communism, infact this will be a major aim of communist society, to get rid of such jobs or at least make them extremely rare and not make people have to do such jobs for large periods of time.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Hmmm, I have read up on Maslow's theories, and come to the conclusion that bringing an entire society to the level of self-actualization would actually be beneficial to production in a communist society, ass opposed to in a capitalist society where it leads to a lack of motivation and decline in work ethic. Apparently, when one achieves self-actualization they become more creative, they gain a sense of equality, they become able to view the world from an objective point of view, and most importantly they focus on solving problems, including problems of others and of society. This would of course lead them to help society the best they can, which includes providing goods or services needed by others. So I think it would actually lead a person to be more productive in society. The reason it is considered a bad thing in commerce circles is because it leads the self-actualized to do whatever is best for society, as opposed to whatever is best for management.