Socialism and Islam

[ArmenianAnarchist16]

In the middle east, recent years have seen the burgeoning of a number of so called "Islamist Socialism" based parties. My feeling is that the sharia and social restrictions forced on society in the Islamic relgion/culture are not compatible with any true type of socialism, but I would like an outside opinion on this matter.

[Dimentio]

That depends on what you mean with socialism. Arab socialism, national socialism, Japanese right-wing socialism and in some aspects stalinism are examples of ideologies which either were socialist or borrowed heavily from socialism but in truth are statist, conservative/reactionary and expansionist.

Islamism is just another example of that, even though Banna viewed himself as a libertarian.

[ArmenianAnarchist16]

When I use the term "Islamic Socialism" I refer to parties which are economically marxist, but endorse Islamic Law as the guiding force in social life. I find these to be contradicting forces which are ultimately incompatible if the ultimate goal of socialism is to achieve a socially libertarian/anarcho-syndicalist society.

[Dimentio]

Yeah, but most islamists are quite social democrat in their political orientation. Parties which are combining marxism with islam [Qhadaffi being the most original] have learned from Iraq 1968 and Afghanistan 1978, that without the support from the street, they won't stand a chance.

They are populists.

[Morag]

Parties supporting a mixture of Islamic social ideals and Marxist economic policies are not necessarily Marxist. Just as academics can use historical materialism to analyze events, theories or movements and might not necessarily Marxist (academics using Marxist theories but not applying them to a larger world-view, or supporting Marxism in general, are usually termed Marxian). My opinion of Islamic Socialism is that it is, indeed, incompatible with Marxism, which is materialistic, not idealistic. This is a fundamental difference between Marxism and any religiously based ideology that prohibits true socialism. I've heard it argued that Islam took root because it offered a new societal structure that allowed capitalism to flourish, so any mixture of Marxism and Islam might be a hard balance to secure. That isn't to say that we can't support these groups if they are involved in the struggle against imperialism or capitalism, but that our support should always be critical of their religious orientation, and we shouldn't shy away from pointing out the differences between socialism and sharia-based socialism.

[Global_Justice]

marxism is completly incompatible with islamic law. in islamic law there strict are rules about property rights and enheritance etc.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Islamic Socialism is a set of theories which arose in the early 20th century as a result of Muslim scholars being exposed to Marxian thought.

I could name a long list of Islamic Socialist theorists, but I'll mention just one at the moment.

Dr. Ali Shariati, who spear-headed the student movement which brought the reactionary, pro-imperialist Shah of Iran down. It was later that the Ayatollahs and their fanatic Islamist followers hijacked this movement.

The thing you need to understand is that any movement must be judged not just by its ideology, but also by its actual political impact. As Marxists, we're supposed to be historical MATERIALISTS first and foremost.


In a predominantly Muslim society such as the one I live in, its not possible to openly declare your movement to be "atheistic". Religion should not and cannot be a mass-line question for us.

If I or any other communist here in Pakistan openly went around telling people we're atheists, then we'd never be able to attain a mass base in society. We'd be stuck with a few well-educated students and intellectuals.

Sometimes, when you're talking to an industrial worker here in Pakistan, you have to tell them that "God doesn't want them to suffer under wage labor". :lol:


We know from a scientific point of view that there is no such thing as a god, but when you enter the political field, you have to be cautious about such statements.

Go too far with atheism, and the government could easily set the Islamic extremist religious leaders on you.


Therefore, in Muslim countries, we communists don't go around saying we're atheists. Instead we say that we stand for a secular society.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

I would suggest that when the comrades are evaluating the political role of a certain movement in the Middle East (or elsewhere), they should focus more on what it actually achieves, rather than what it claims.

So, while we all know that Islamic Socialism is an ideologically bankrupt set of ideas, if we're going to judge Islamic Socialists, we ought to see if they're playing a progressive role in society, or a reactionary one.

To distance ourselves from a movement simply because it doesn't endorse a fully Marxist point of view is not a wise policy.

We must come face to face with the truth that sometimes a political organization which firmly believes in religious nonsense can play a more progressive role than a few isolated Marxist intellectuals.

[Guerrilla22]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 02:23 pm
When I use the term "Islamic Socialism" I refer to parties which are economically marxist, but endorse Islamic Law as the guiding force in social life. I find these to be contradicting forces which are ultimately incompatible if the ultimate goal of socialism is to achieve a socially libertarian/anarcho-syndicalist society.
That's an interesting paradox. Marxist ideology specifically denounces religion and calls for its replacement, as religion promotes individualism by dividing society, however if they are simply following a marxist economic model, not Marxism as a complete ideology, I suppose it could work.

[ArmenianAnarchist16]

It isn't true that a marxist in a predominately muslim country would have to identify themselves as being fundamentally Islamic to achieve success (Although being a declared atheist would probably be foolish as well)---Turkey, Lebanon, and Azerbajian are all examples of Muslim countries with large segments of Secular Voters.

[More Fire for the People]

I would say what qualifies as a 'proper' combination of Islam and socialism Ali Shariati, Hamid Dabashi, and Malcolm X who combine their religious outlook, one could say their metaphysical outlook, with a materialist conception of capitalism and anti-capitalism. I would question the Islamic socialism of Muammar al-Qaddafi and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.

I think as communists we can, and should, work in a united front with progressive Muslims in order to resist imperialism, racism, and neoliberalism.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

I would question the Islamic socialism of Muammar al-Qaddafi and Zulfikar Ali Bhutto.

So would I.

Bhutto claimed to be an Islamic Socialist, but his policies pretty much ruined our industries.

He steered Pakistan in a positive direction in terms of foreign policy, by taking an anti-imperialist line.

But on the domestic front, he nationalized industries and then handed them over to his corrupt supporters. In fact, much of the nationalization process was a pathetic joke itself.



I think as communists we can, and should, work in a united front with progressive Muslims in order to resist imperialism, racism, and neoliberalism.

Definitely.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by Hopscotch [email protected] 10, 2007 04:26 am
I think as communists we can, and should, work in a united front with progressive Muslims in order to resist imperialism, racism, and neoliberalism.
And then what...?

[Spirit of Spartacus]

And then what...?

Duh. <_<

[More Fire for the People]

Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+January 10, 2007 05:26 am--> (The Anarchist Tension @ January 10, 2007 05:26 am)
Hopscotch [email protected] 10, 2007 04:26 am
I think as communists we can, and should, work in a united front with progressive Muslims in order to resist imperialism, racism, and neoliberalism.
And then what...? [/b]
Popularize a secular progressive counter-culture within the working class.

[Spirit of Spartacus]

Popularize a secular progressive counter-culture within the working class.


Exactly. There is much need of that.


In many Muslim countries, the religious establishment is too strong to challenge directly with declarations of atheism.

Instead, we have to erode its power by calling for secularism first. So the official party line for many communist parties in Muslim countries is SECULARISM as opposed to atheism.

There&#39;s a difference. A secular party admits people from all religions, provided they&#39;re prepared to put aside their religious differences and work for the common good. Also, a secular party encourages free thought but doesn&#39;t attack religious beliefs directly.

You have to watch out, in case you antagonize religious people. And the religious leaders, those tools of the bourgeoisie, they are like a hornet&#39;s nest. Stir them up and they&#39;re all over you.