Why is Capitalism needed?

[( R )evolution]

I know that we must let Capitalism have its time in order to have communism? I really never got this. Could someone please tell me why? Thanks and sorry if this is a dumb question. Thanks

[Q]

Originally posted by ( R )[email protected] 09, 2007 07:13 am
I know that we must let Capitalism have its time in order to have communism? I really never got this. Could someone please tell me why? Thanks and sorry if this is a dumb question. Thanks
What you may be referring to is the progressive tasks of capitalism. These tasks played a role in the industrialisation of society after the feudal age came to an end. However, since the start of imperialism those progressive tasks came to an end really, and yeah that's for a while now.

[Dimentio]

One question which both technocrats and socialists must deal with is how to compensate for the entrepreneur strata of capitalists. Without a class of people actively seeking to develop needs in order to find places where innovations might go, development risks to go slower.

[Clarksist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 01:58 am
One question which both technocrats and socialists must deal with is how to compensate for the entrepreneur strata of capitalists. Without a class of people actively seeking to develop needs in order to find places where innovations might go, development risks to go slower.
That's like saying the only reason people would learn is through forced schooling.

I dropped out, and I read MUCH more now than ever before. That goes against capitalist reasoning that states the incentive. And capitalists are absolutely correct, humans need incentive. But, they don't realize that incentive can just as easily come from yourself, and the wage slavery system.

[Dimentio]

It may be cynical to see scenarios where human beings behave in ways which are contrary to their own interests, or the interests of society, but it is not enough energy investigated in exactly what makes people work and invent nowadays. NET is working on acquiring that knowledge.

[Clarksist]

It may be cynical to see scenarios where human beings behave in ways which are contrary to their own interests, or the interests of society, but it is not enough energy investigated in exactly what makes people work and invent nowadays.

If you think that it isn't possible to know what makes invention happen, why post this:


Without a class of people actively seeking to develop needs in order to find places where innovations might go, development risks to go slower.

[RebelDog]

One question which both technocrats and socialists must deal with is how to compensate for the entrepreneur strata of capitalists. Without a class of people actively seeking to develop needs in order to find places where innovations might go, development risks to go slower.

We need the capitalist class for capitalism only. If it were to be the case that a collectivised, from each-to each, economy lagged behind even capitalist production levels then it would be doomed. Are you saying that human progress must always involve a ruling class?

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by The [email protected] 09, 2007 08:23 am

One question which both technocrats and socialists must deal with is how to compensate for the entrepreneur strata of capitalists. Without a class of people actively seeking to develop needs in order to find places where innovations might go, development risks to go slower.

We need the capitalist class for capitalism only. If it were to be the case that a collectivised, from each-to each, economy lagged behind even capitalist production levels then it would be doomed. Are you saying that human progress must always involve a ruling class?
No, I said that I did not know how progress would manifest itself in a technocratic or a socialist society. But given the experiences from USSR, GDR, North Korea and Cuba, and the work motivation there, we could conclude that there might be a connection between motivation and the risk of ending up on the street.

A technate is very different from a planned economy, but there might be some problems with under-achievement which may lead to a slow-down in scientific progress [even though the technate would focus heavily on said scientific progress].

If you want first-hand information, look up our website. We have had some articles published relating to the subject.

[Delta]

The vast majority of innovation is done by scientists and engineers whose inventions end up benefiting the capitalist who owns the company, so there is unlikely to be any fall off in innovation. It would more likely go up, at least in terms of socially useful innovations.

[Morpheus]

See the open source movement for an example of how innovation in an anarcho-communist society might come about.

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2007 09:52 pm
See the open source movement for an example of how innovation in an anarcho-communist society might come about.
Yes, that is the technocrat's argument as well. But it ought to be tested in a controlled environment before we with certainty could say that it is a fact.

[Guerrilla22]

It became necessary, when it was discovered that it was cheaper to hire laborers than to buy and maintain slaves. at least in the uS anyways.

[Dimentio]

I did not mean that, I am talking about work motivation, rewards and psychology. But you do not at least interpret me as bad as some other persons have done.

[cb9's_unity]

Originally posted by ( R )[email protected] 09, 2007 07:13 am
I know that we must let Capitalism have its time in order to have communism? I really never got this. Could someone please tell me why? Thanks and sorry if this is a dumb question. Thanks
It seems to me like Lenin and most of the bolsheviks also asked why capitalism was neccesary in 1917. They decided it wasn't and tried to get the same benifits as capitalism such as industrialization with a planned economy. This has been shown to require a large cenalized government and with that comes the possibility of developing a buerocrat class that is as bad as the capitalists. I personally believe that capitalism needs to exist before socialism but i need to do more reaserch and learn more about the subject.

[chimx]

I dropped out, and I read MUCH more now than ever before.

quantity is not indicative of quality.