Religious Leaders

[MrDoom]

I seem to remember a thread long ago that discussed what should be done about royal families in nations which still have them. The general consensus was that of banishment from the country.

What about major religious leaders?

If and when a socialist revolution comes about and it comes to dealing with their kind, what should be done with people such as the Pope and other reactionary religious leaders?

Banishment? Imprisonment? Execution? Force them to publicly admit their religious lies?

[Pawn Power]

What a while we are from that day.

The dealing with religious leaders will probably be done case by case, not only dependent upon the specific religious leader in question (crimes, authority, dogmatism etc.) but also upon the region of inhabitants and revolutionaries surronding and dealing with them. While some may choose banishment (but to where?) others may decide on imprissionment or death against their religious oppressors (with any luck the "Catholics" and Italians will take care of the holy father). I think a distiction is often made between particularly dogmatic religious leaders and more liberal and flaccid ones.


Force them to publicly admit their religious lies?
The problem is a lot of them believe the things they spew. :o

The thing is that religion could possibly have diminished to a point where the spitirual leaders have no real power in the time that any collective action could be taken against them.

For now there are countless blind followers of religion and religious leaders that eventually they must shrug off or a least question aspects of their faith, or their faith entirely.

[ichneumon]

Banishment? Imprisonment? Execution? Force them to publicly admit their religious lies?

the thing about revolutions and purges is that there are dozens of factions of fanatics, even a dozen or so socialist varieties, and than only ONE comes out on top post-revolution. what that faction does, immediately, is liquidate every other faction, ESPECIALLY those near to it, which are competitors. this great purging you are so hot to get would, in fact, get you shot in the head toot sweet. how is it that all the blood thirsty so-called intellectuals fail to see this? have you not read "darkness at noon"?

[MrDoom]

I think that was in an english textbook I used in school once. Isn't that about blind discrimination? What does that have to do with anything? :huh:

[La Comédie Noire]

What should we do with religious leaders? It all depends on what the social landscape is when the reveloution comes. Will they still hold as much weight as they do now? What if in the panick of the collapse of Capitalism despots such as the pope gain as much political power as they had in say: The Middle Ages?
How harsh we combat depends on the magnitude of these factors. I think we should give them a choice; they should either give up their oppressive religious institutions willingly and live in society cooperativley or have it done by force and face excecution.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 04:10 pm
Banishment? Imprisonment? Execution? Force them to publicly admit their religious lies?
If some vicar wants to jut slip away quitely and having nothing more to do with organised religion then so be it.

Any religious leader, however, who actively organisers and attempts to subvert a revolution should be executed.

[Wozza]

The problem with religious leaders is that as long as they retain the respect and admiration of the religious moderates, killing them only further helps their course. Killing them makes them martyrs. And that is one of the last things we want.

[ichneumon]

"Darkness at noon" is about the soviet purge trials.

"it tells the tale of Rubashov, a Bolshevik old guard revolutionary who is first cast out and then imprisoned and tried for treason by the Soviet government he once helped create.

Through a complex process of intellectual arguments, physical torture, and moral reflection, Rubashov gradually agrees to publicly confess to multiple crimes against the state. He decides to confess to these imaginary crimes because he still wishes to serve the ideals of the revolution, and because his reflections lead him to accept he has caused severe suffering and torment to many of the people closest to him. The novel is set in 1938 during the Stalinist purges and Moscow show trials."

read it. why do you think that you are immune to purging? once the killing starts, no one is safe ESPECIALLY anyone with strong political commitments. idealists have no place in a totalitarian state.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2007 09:53 pm
"Darkness at noon" is about the soviet purge trials.

"it tells the tale of Rubashov, a Bolshevik old guard revolutionary who is first cast out and then imprisoned and tried for treason by the Soviet government he once helped create.

Through a complex process of intellectual arguments, physical torture, and moral reflection, Rubashov gradually agrees to publicly confess to multiple crimes against the state. He decides to confess to these imaginary crimes because he still wishes to serve the ideals of the revolution, and because his reflections lead him to accept he has caused severe suffering and torment to many of the people closest to him. The novel is set in 1938 during the Stalinist purges and Moscow show trials."

read it. why do you think that you are immune to purging? once the killing starts, no one is safe ESPECIALLY anyone with strong political commitments. idealists have no place in a totalitarian state.
I really enjoyed that book.

[MrDoom]

Where have I ever suggested purges or totalitarianism? I asked what should be done about viable threats to revolutionary movements.

[Pow R. Toc H.]

I say we de-throne them and make them work like everybody else, except that they have to work with duct tape over there mouths and they have to where a dunce cap.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 10:10 pm
Banishment? Imprisonment? Execution? Force them to publicly admit their religious lies?
what i'd like to say is ignore them.....

[MrDoom]

Originally posted by knight of cydonia+January 12, 2007 06:39 pm--> (knight of cydonia @ January 12, 2007 06:39 pm)
[email protected] 08, 2007 10:10 pm
Banishment? Imprisonment? Execution? Force them to publicly admit their religious lies?
what i'd like to say is ignore them..... [/b]
Do that when they lead a counterrevolutionary army to stick a sword through your face and restore fascism.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by MrDoom+January 13, 2007 03:09 am--> (MrDoom @ January 13, 2007 03:09 am)
Originally posted by knight of [email protected] 12, 2007 06:39 pm

[email protected] 08, 2007 10:10 pm
Banishment? Imprisonment? Execution? Force them to publicly admit their religious lies?
what i'd like to say is ignore them.....
Do that when they lead a counterrevolutionary army to stick a sword through your face and restore fascism. [/b]
well, not fully ignore them...i would not allowed that shit happens though :D

before they do that...i'll surely blow their fuckin' brains or decapitated their head and take it on parade.....

EDIT: just like this : die..die...die... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Bo-ZRb1Edg)

[cormacobear]

For those like Benedict who have actively worked at subverting the left trial and imprisonment. For those clergy regardless of faith who support the left a seat on their local soviets.

[choff]

No religious leaders should really hold any power outside of their community. Each community should be entitled to however many churches are necessary geared towards as many faiths as possible. But keep any larger organizations from branching off. Allow them freedom to worship and pray to whoever/whatever they want, and in any humane fashion, but without really conferring with the religious leaders of other towns/cities/etc on anything more than a social basis. This will keep the people happy, as they will practice their religion freely, as well as keep them from being crushed by some other faith. Some particular faiths will still remain in the majority, I'm sure, but this may help to keep them from really having anything they can do about it.