Communism is evil

[Fantomas]

Communism is a system that feeds on misery. If you are well off, you wouldn't even think of going there. But Marxists' main trait is propaganda. Desperate, poor people will beleive in just about anything to escape their misery. I can understand that. What Communists do well is point out the defects of a Capitalistic society (as if there were any perfect societies); what they don't do well is correct the problems it mentions. Churchill had two sayings when referring to Left Wingers:
1) If at age 20, you're not a Liberal, you don't have a heart. If at 30, you're still a Liberal, you don't have a brain.
2) The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Anybody here that has read the works of Marx and Engel knows well that a Communistic society is an Utopian society, and Utopia is better left to fantasy movies. Anybody with two ounces of gray matter will understand that Communism will never be achieved.
When we're young, most of us are Liberals and/or radicals and want to "fix" the world. As we mature, we realize that what was true in our lives 10 or 15 years ago, is not necessarily true now.
One of the stages in the building of a Communist society is the "dictator of the proletariat". Any dictator, Left or Right, under any excuse, that violates individual rights is wrong and oppressive. Those that insist that Marxism will work "if implemented properly" are in for a rude awakening. Since the Marxist concept is so seriously flawed, it could never be properly implemented.
The only way a Marxist society could exist is thru a dictatorship, coercion, misinformation, and oppression.
Although there might have been good intentions in starting a Marxist society, on the long run it will turn oppressive and brutal. Marxism has been tried many times and always failed and always will; it can only be maintined in place by oppression. Those that still defend Communism do so because of ignorance about the ideology or because they're despots. Some of the ways these Marxists try to defend this ideology is by revising its history as to not have to justify its failure or by not acknowledging the facts of history. You will never meet a rational Marxist because facts and rationale is a Communist's worst enemy. That's why one of the first victims of any Marxist society is an open and free press.

[Jurhael]

*yawn* A show of hands. How many of you have heard all this shit before?

[Fantomas]

Jurhael, Commies don't like "maricones" (fags) like you.

[Moskitto]

*yawn* A show of hands. How many of you have heard all this shit before?


Me


Jurhael, Commies don't like "maricones" (fags) like you.

All Scottish People wear kilts and play bagpipes

All Gays speak in high voices

All Lesbiens are all hot

All Indians eat only curry

All Native Americans live in Teepees

Therefore

Generalised stereotyping peoples views don't work, please read the topic "GLBT issues in general discussion" to find out what we actually think of homosexuality.

[Jurhael]

Quote: from Fantomas on 2:00 pm on Oct. 24, 2001
Jurhael, Commies don't like "maricones" (fags) like you.


GAHAHAHAHAAHHA!! Is that the best you can do? Jesus Christ... if you're going to try and make a sorry attempt at insulting people, try to be original. But judging from your posts, I can imagine that's not possible.

Not everyone who supports gay rights is gay.

I am not gay.

You are vastly unintelligent.

[RedCeltic]

Hmmmm if all commies hate gays... and you call me a commie (which I'm not) ... why did we run David McRennolds for president in 2000? (an openly gay man)

[Moskitto]

I'm not a homophobe and i'm a commie.

I'm actually criticised by loads of people for supporting gay rights.

[Moskitto]

Anyway one of the candidates for mayor of Berlin (Social Democrats I think) sparked controversy by first admitting he was a communist and a few months later admitted he was gay.

[Che Jexster]

Someone who calls Marxism "evil" is also a homophobe, why doesn't that surprise me? The right has a tendancy to make leftist countries fail and then say that a leftist government could never work. Leftivism would have worked in Nicaragua if it hadn't been for the contras, which were funded by... damn I can't seem to remember refresh my memory Fantomas. It's kind of hard for leftist governments to succeed when the most powerful country in the world makes every other country impose trade sanctions on, and deploy military agaisnt them.
Just so you know pure Democracy isn't very far off from communism. If you want to talk about failed governments why not talk about the land of the free, where they execute mentally retarted children for crimes?
If you want to talk about denying history, grab up a book on the Iran/Contra scandal, and tell me who are the "evil" ones and who the deomcratically elected government.
Way to use the famous quote to back up your point though heres one "Everyone has the right to be stupid, but some people abuse that right" something even I can agree with Stalin on. I agree that alot of Communists deny history, but if you think that capitalists don't your fucking deluding yourself.

[Chancho]

Hey fantomas,

Why do people with closed minds always open their mouths?

[David Loco]

Beleave it or not.....We don't hate anybody except those who feed off the backs of the working class and the poor.......We are working and willing to die for the rights of 'La Raza' on this planet.

[Vanadanglus]

OK, fantomas, communism will never succeed, but it's not because of the fact that Marx's system is flawed exactly, but because people aren't willing to let it succeed. Listen to Jexster, he made good arguments all, and he was right about America's suppression of leftivism, hell, we did it OPENLY.

Though the aristocracy of America is too powerful, and was too powerful, to ever let communist take hold of America, the only time that the people will revolt against the aristocracy, is if the aristocracy is weak, that is where Marx's thinking is flawed. He believed the people of the industrial nations would revolt b/c they were oppressed, but the only time the peasants actually revolted was when the aristocracy was weak--France, Russia, etc. In fact, the only time a society with a strong aristocracy underwent a revolution was in the American Revolution when the aristocracy itself revolted.

So, Marxism isn't necessarily a failure because of the fact that it leaves the door open for oppression--which it does--all societies have done that, even Churchill's England had the door open for oppression. America isn't and hasn't been the land of the free for some time now, it's been the land of the aristocracy. It's following in suit it's predecessor: Rome; Corruption is rampant, and it will continue on so, though the end will be one of a dying sun: Slowly but surely with a big bang when it ends.

[RuralCommunist]

Why is it that any form of communism fails. America the only
super power left cuts it off from the world. One thing that
you don't get is that communism and a dictatorship don't have to be the same thing. People can't seem to understand that a communist country can have free elections. And the reason why the Marxist utopia hasn't worked is because you can't rush it. You can't go from a capilist country to Marxist utopia. It takes years of socialism and half socialism. People don't understand the revolutionaries can't live in it. They will never see it. So this discourages them so they take up dictatorship.

[ComradeFubar]

In reply to Fantomas's post:-

hmm ur argument is weak and full of holes...just like ur brain probably.

You mention "dictator of the proletariat"..WDF get it right its "Dictatorship of the proletariat" and what it means is the the proletariat dictate over the burgousie..the majority decide what is to be done not the minority...last time I looked thats democracy.
So before you make stupid staments you should check up your facts before you burst out with your ill informed views...

P.S
Excuse my bad spelling..but hey at least I got my concepts right

[RedCeltic]

ComradeFubar ,

Thank you for your input, and explaining what "Dictatorship of the prol." is.... I truly didn't think it would need to be explained, but obviously it did.

And by the way... poor spelling is fine, many of us do it, and you won't get attacked by us on the left for it.. ;)

[ComradeFubar]

Redceltic,
No probs :)

[socialistscumbag666]

Who gives a shit who's gay and who isn't? it's of their own free will.

[Nickademus]

Quote: from socialistscumbag666 on 1:52 am on Oct. 27, 2001
Who gives a shit who's gay and who isn't? it's of their own free will.

being GLBT is not a matter of free will.

[socialistscumbag666]

You're right, I worded it wrongly. It's not of their own free will cause you don't suddenly make a descicion to be gay, you either are or you aren't.

I accept your comment comrade.

[AntiHero]

Im proud of you guys. None of you went to his low standards by throwing out propeganda. And no one screamed for him to be banned. Even though he is a jerk he still has a right to speak, and Im glad everyone here sees that. Now lets get him banned, j/k. ;D

[ComradeFubar]

If we baned him then we would be proving his point

[Guest]

just one question:
how does a guy who obviously hates communism, not only end up at a communist website, but also contribute to it?

-Griffin

[Moskitto]

I'm sorry you people, I replied to his first post because he actually looked like he might be somewhat sensible, however he wasn't.

[PsychoKenny]

A red Party, who rules hard has to compensate the dumbness of the people, who don`t identificate with a marxistic system and want to join a Capitaistic system.
People have to get that all people are equal.

[Rob]

would someone tell me how someone who is probably a R.A.C. Skrewdriver/Condemned 84 listening homophobic nazi named Fantomas manages not only to misquote both Karl Marx and Winston Churchill? I guess he was too busy reading Mein Kampf.

[Freiheit]

Fantomas,
1) you speaks about marxism, marxism is one interpretation of communism, it is theory, and for sure it is one of the most socila ones. For sure it is not perfect, nothing is perfect, and no theory works in practice exactly the same as in the theory.
2) If comunism does not work, it is not the mistake of communism, then the theory is a good one (in practice it might look different, but there was never a real try over years). The humans are the error. That is the reason why we must change the humans, not the theory, we must work and spend our energy that sometimes a communistic system will be possible.
3) Marxism: Marx said always, that a peaceful revolution is possible, he never told about a party or dictatorship, he only mentioned a organ which is as well the legislature as the executive branch and elected by the population. So everyone would have the chance to be a representative, marxism is a democratic system, but after all it is an economic system. Marx left a lot of space for the polictical aspect, so today we have houndreds of different interpretations of communism. In fact, some of them are as crapy as capitalism, but one the other hand, some of them are almost perfect, and we must try to change to human to live in such a community.

[Che Jexster]

True democracy is not far from the communist theory.

[Freiheit]

Quote: from Che Jexster on 8:03 pm on Nov. 21, 2001
True democracy is not far from the communist theory.

may you explain it a little bit better. would be interesting for sure.

[Karo Chevez]

First of all the whole idea of labeling communism as evil
is quite ridiculous because the concept of evil is a moral
premise taken from a book of myths and fables.Why is
it that anyone professing socialism should give attention
to the prejudiced opinion of someone who apparently is
given to the deranged notion that a thing is only a thing
by the process of labeling?I am not a communist,Marxist,
Leninist,and though I refer to myself as a revolutionary
socialist,even such a statement as that makes me cringe
with the displeasure that I need say it.I am a man,and as such I am a brother to humanity.We must refuse to be labeled and categorized,my eyes are bue,and were
my bothers eyes to be brown,they make him no less my
brother.When someone judges you by any standard it
is merely a reflection of their own weakness,they simply
wish to enslave you to their own depravity,for the moral
indictments they pass are indications of their own flawed
character.We are conscious beings rather than things to
be labeled,predicted,or manipulated,we as humans exist
not in accordance with any definition,generalization,or a
system of judgement based on essence.I was absurdly
thrown into this world and my death is as absurd to me
as my birth.I am my own existence,and the nothingness
of my death hangs over me like a sword of Damocles at
each moment of my life,death is merely a witness to the
absurdity of human existence,but I love life despite the
absurdity which it entails.It is not in the act of giving life
but in risking life that man is raised above the animals,it
is not the sex that brings forth life that is uplifted but the
sex which kills,in this strength is displayed and all people
stand in awe.We have been taught that in marriage the
woman is to be submissive to the man,however we must
break the chains of slavery in every place,only then will
the human couple find its true form.We are here as the
culmination of the evolutionary process,and must accept that there is no consciousness after death,and likewise
we must seek the welfare of all humanity.We can either
choose by our reason to display courage,compassion,
and love,or else cowardice,cruelty,and hate,for we are
free individuals with the responsibility of free choice and
the refusal to choose is itself a choice.Human beings are
completely self-operating units according to the natural
laws without the help of any non-human,metaphysical
entities which charlatans employ in order to manipulate,
cheat,and bamboozle simpletons lacking emotional and
mental stability.We were born with brains,I advise each
and everyone to use them wisely.-Karo

[Son of Scargill]

Cool!
A good description of the human condition,although I did think it was a suicide note halfway through it.But the lack of people using even a small amount of their brainpower can be pretty depressing,eh!

[Che Jexster]

I completly agree. We all label eachother and ourselves much too often. When we label ourselves we often sacrifice our individuality and conform to ideals that wouldnt otherwise be ours.
Anyway what i was saying about true democracy. We live in more of a republic rather than a democracy. Republics are systems where we elect people who vote for us, I have no idea why they call our system a democracy at all, when we don't (in most countries) directly elect the government anyway but do it by areas and the greatest vote wins a certain amount of seats one seat to an area. The green party won 20% of the vote but no seats in a recent BC election. I think it's called a democracy to make us feel that we have a place in deciding our countries laws and policy.
True democracy is where everyone votes directly on the issues. It's not very practical as too many people would have to fill out too many forms. However it is similar to communism in that if we voted for everything then the majorities best interests would be gueranteed (so long as propaganda allowed fair debate) and there would be much more equality. True democracy only works on a small scale, in a small collection of towns, or a single city for example.

[Freiheit]

youre right, it is not a big difference.
but the problem are the media, the propagand, the education, health care, morals etc. then all this things is controlled by the upper class. there is no free speech, because not everyone has enough money.

[Fires of History]

Yaaaaawwwwwnnnnnnn
Fuck you first of all.

You said "If you are well off, you wouldn't even think of going there."

Wrong. I was well off my entire life. After waking up to the reality of this world, I cashed in my trust funds, have spent in on education, non profit organizations and a few people I know in severe need.

Your post points out to me that those elite on top will never understand the appeal of Communism-they are too comfortable to be bothered by anything but their own instant gratification.

By the way, your a fucking idiot -thinking in a box.

Oh, and fuck you again.

Power to the People,
Trance

[Cobber]

Why do people with closed minds always open their mouths?


To change feet!

[Nateddi]

Wow, this thread got ressurected. I wasnt around it orignially, I'm glad I read it now, its very good.

[peaccenicked]

i blame my mother.
here is an old old song
From the Socialist Song Book, a mimeod publication of the Young People's
Socialist League, New York City, dated 1959. No editor listed but
with the Introduction written by Owen Fleischman.


THAT TROTSKYITE MAMMY OF MINE

(Tune: Sweet Little Alice Blue Gown)

Oh, that Trotskyite mammy of mine,
'Twas from her that I got my first line
Now I know she's in heaven
'Cause she's lefter than Lenin,
That Trotskyite mammy of mine.

When we'd romp through the neighbor's back yard,
Taking shots at the National Guard,
We would mount barricades
And we'd throw hand grenades
While the kids marched around as the People's Brigades.

When we fought on the high school eleven
And the score stood at zero to seven,
You could hear o'er the din
Mammy shouting like sin,
"Shoot your captains, you morons, and bore from within."

When the whistle has ended the game
You could hear mammy shout all the same,
"Reassemble your fraction for independent action!"
That Trotskyite mammy of mine.