Ageism

[Fawkes]

Ageism, something that is no less dangerous to society than sexism or homophobia, I have noticed goes unpunished on this site while displaying of homophobia, racism, or something similar would end up with you either restricted or banned. My question is, why is that?

[bcbm]

Fuck you, kid.

[Sentinel]

Ageism, something that is no less dangerous to society than sexism or homophobia, I have noticed goes unpunished on this site while displaying of homophobia, racism, or something similar would end up with you either restricted or banned. My question is, why is that?

Not to mention those horrible speciests, who roam the forums freely. :(

[Dimentio]

Or those who are thinking that stones should have the right to not be worked upon. ^^

[bcbm]

I've been drinking for an hour and I am not drunk yet. Life sucks.

[Sentinel]

Lol.

On a more serious note, it would be too hard to specify or agree upon what in a debate constitutes ageism, and what on the other hand is simply accurately pointing out actual differences between people of different ages. Because those differences do exist, and forbidding them to be brought up would halt discussion. That's the last thing we want on a message board, after all.

[Dimentio]

Especially all these thirteen-year old net rats who bring up ageism as a means of "ethnix"-ificate their weak arguments are a nuisance. ^^

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Freedom for [email protected] 04, 2007 04:34 pm
Ageism, something that is no less dangerous to society than sexism or homophobia, I have noticed goes unpunished on this site while displaying of homophobia, racism, or something similar would end up with you either restricted or banned. My question is, why is that?
Can you provide some examples please?

[encephalon]

I once talked to an infant for three hours, and learned nothing.

The same thing applies here.

[Fawkes]

I'm so sick of logging onto this board and reading teenagers really" tearing apart" greta thinkers and revolutionaries of the past.

That's just one example (it's from here (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=60367&st=25)), but I do see that same type of thing a lot.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by black banner black [email protected] 04, 2007 02:55 am
I've been drinking for an hour and I am not drunk yet. Life sucks.
and then you die

[which doctor]

I really don't think ageism is really that bad on revleft.

[The Grey Blur]

If you have half a brain the older members will recognise that. Just try not to use 'u' instead of 'you' or mention 'pwning' anyone and you're sweet.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by Freedom for [email protected] 04, 2007 03:34 am
Ageism, something that is no less dangerous to society than sexism or homophobia,
This is ridiculous

[Fawkes]

Why is that ridiculous? Ageism is just as damaging to a society as racism, sexism, or homophobia is. It may not be as widespread, but that does not change the fact that it is as dangerous to society as the aforementioned things are.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Pawn Power+January 04, 2007 03:16 pm--> (Pawn Power @ January 04, 2007 03:16 pm)
black banner black [email protected] 04, 2007 02:55 am
I've been drinking for an hour and I am not drunk yet. Life sucks.
and then you die [/b]
Speak for yourself.

[Fawkes]

^^ How high of a tolerance do you have?

[Tekun]

Originally posted by Freedom for [email protected] 04, 2007 07:24 pm

I'm so sick of logging onto this board and reading teenagers really" tearing apart" greta thinkers and revolutionaries of the past.

That's just one example (it's from here (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=60367&st=25)), but I do see that same type of thing a lot.
Which exact post are u referring to?

[Fawkes]

The post by Jesus Christ! on page two.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 01:24 pm
The post by Jesus Christ! on page two.
Don't take it to heart, it was nothing but a useless rant

[Fawkes]

Oh believe me I don't.

[RebelDog]

When you are old and can no longer produce profit for capitalists you are treated like shite. Thats true in the UK anyway and attitudes towards the elderly and their welfare are getting worse and worse. I'm helping at this moment to stop a old peoples home being privatised. Our local council just don't give a fuck about them.
I really fear being old because I know I'm going to face terrible poverty when I am no longer capable of being a wage slave.

[Fawkes]

Yeah, old people have it just as bad, if not worse than young people.

[Comrade J]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 03:30 am
Why is that ridiculous? Ageism is just as damaging to a society as racism, sexism, or homophobia is. It may not be as widespread, but that does not change the fact that it is as dangerous to society as the aforementioned things are.
Of course it does exist as a problem to some degree, but it is nowhere near as damaging as racism, sexism or homophobia!

If it is not as widespread, then how is it equally dangerous? If it is not as widespread then it must in fact, be worse in strength than the other three in order to be as damaging to society, and you'd have to be a fucking imbecile to say that ageism causes more pain, suffering and discrimination than racism, sexism and homophobia.

Racism and homophobia have resulted in the deaths of millions of people, and they cause frequent bouts of abuse and violence on a daily basis across the entire world, as well as extreme cases of discrimination based on one's race and sexual orientation, more so than that caused by unnecessary ageist discrimination (I say unnecessary because of course, certain discrimination based on age is necessary for the well-being of the person, such as child labour laws).

Similarly, sexism has displayed itself in actions of prejudice and discrimination, particularly in the supposed 'gender roles' we are supposed to subscribe to and the difference in earnings of men and women which still exist today. There have also been cases of violence based on sexism, though on a somewhat lesser scale than race and homophobia.

And as for ageism, surely that comes down mostly to discrimination? Ie - the age of consent, the age one can work at in certain countries, voting/drinking age etc?
Of course, a lot of people are against these, but it's fucking beyond preposterous to claim that this is a problem equally damaging as homophobia, racism and sexism.

If, for example, someone believed homosexuals, women and black people should not be able to vote, work in a factory, study at university etc. would it then be equally bad to say a 9-year old shouldn't be able to do these things? Of course not.

Similarly, if you won't have a discussion on a complicated subject matter, such as Wittgensteinian Fideism, with a gay woman because 'she won't understand', then is it equally absurd to provide the same reason for not having the discussion with a 10-year old?

[Fawkes]

If it is not as widespread, then how is it equally dangerous
It has the potential to be just as bad for society as racism if it spreads more which is the reason why it should be stopped.

Also, the examples that you provided are not the kind of thing I am talking about. I'm talking about totally disregarding someone just because they are a teenager. A teenager is fully capable of having just as high of a level of intelligence as a 50 year old.

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 12:30 am
Why is that ridiculous? Ageism is just as damaging to a society as racism, sexism, or homophobia is. It may not be as widespread, but that does not change the fact that it is as dangerous to society as the aforementioned things are.
:lol:

I'd love a good example of this...although I doubt you have a convincing reason to put "ageism" in that level

[Fawkes]

I don't see how what I said is funny. I also don't see how someone could think that if ageism was as widespread as racism is that it wouldn't be as dangerous to society.

[Invader Zim]

To be fair, when I was younger it did annoy the hell out of me that because I was age 'X' people of age 'Y' treated my opinion as inferior. However, once you do actually become a little older you do see how undeveloped many of those opinions were and so forth. You also find your self exposed to new views, ideas and experiances which invariably have an impact upon your own positions; but that comes with a little age and experiance.

Take for example teenagers who have never had a job or lived away from home for an extended period of time telling a 40 year old the 'way it is' regarding employment and providing for family and so on. Or a teenager who has never worked telling a manual labourer what it is to be 'working class'. A prime example is the education thread, a load of kids, who have never worked a real job, were telling people to fuck education as a form of rebellion. Now I know, have seen first hand and am going to do my upmost to avoid that. When you have worked with 50 year old's carting buckets of shit and have absolutely no retirement prospects all because they have zero qualifications and could not actually get better jobs, then you suddenly start to realise the value of that 'worthless' highschool diploma or GCSE certificate. But obviously until you see things for your self it can be difficult to fully understand them. I could tell that most of the people I was discussing it with were still living with their parents and had never done a 'real days work' (sorry to sound cliche). But you do gain these experiances as you meet new people, start working and generally just get older.

That maybe 'ageist' or whatever, but never the less it is still the way it is, most people until they experiance something are naiive about that something, especially when it comes to work, rent and so on.

[Chris Hiv_E_]

I'm sixteen and no one has ever put me down for that so I don't think ageism is that big of a problem on revleft.

[Fawkes]

It isn't that big of a problem but it should not be allowed to grow into a bigger one.

[The Grey Blur]

My cheek hurts

[Fawkes]

Haha

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 10:21 pm

If it is not as widespread, then how is it equally dangerous
It has the potential to be just as bad for society as racism if it spreads more which is the reason why it should be stopped.
It's not going to spread more. Society has, over all, become less 'ageist'. Unless you want us to go back to a support of child labour, in which case I think you're fucking scum (but I really doubt this is what you're advocating).


Also, the examples that you provided are not the kind of thing I am talking about. I'm talking about totally disregarding someone just because they are a teenager. A teenager is fully capable of having just as high of a level of intelligence as a 50 year old. Don't be stupid, most teenagers - if they are articulate enough are taken seriously in most things however there are some instances where it would be foolish to trust a teenager over an adult, this is usually in areas concerning pure knowledge - as a qualified 50 year old is more likley to have a vast wealth of knowledge than some punk teenager that believes their IQ score is reason enough for them to get up their own arse about being 'ignored by society'. I have not found any evidence of teenagers being wrongfully ignored, if anything our society now panders toward an idea of 'youth' and doing right by the young - I say fuck it. Ageism is the 'ism' that white, middle class, straight teenagers can adopt, it is pure privelege and arrogance. I am open to more discrimination by being attracted to people of the same sex than I have ever been for my age, this is empirically true.

The only possible argument I can think of for the existance of 'agesim' is that parents hold complete economic control over their children until said children get a job, aside from that most 'ageism' just isn't.

I support serious struggles against actual oppression, I do not support the puffed up fantasies of a bunch of kids that want to play rebel but feel they must be part of a minority group to have "revolutionary potential".

[Fawkes]

I support serious struggles against actual oppression, I do not support the puffed up fantasies of a bunch of kids that want to play rebel but feel they must be part of a minority group to have "revolutionary potential".
I don't need to pretend to be a member of a minority group, I am a member of one.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 11:10 pm

I support serious struggles against actual oppression, I do not support the puffed up fantasies of a bunch of kids that want to play rebel but feel they must be part of a minority group to have "revolutionary potential".
I don't need to pretend to be a member of a minority group, I am a member of one.
I never implied anything about you. Whatever group you belong to you can still be utterly incorrect.

[Fawkes]

This is off topic but perhaps a mod could move this thread out of Chit-chat and into something else like "Discrimination" or something else.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by Tekun+January 06, 2007 03:35 pm--> (Tekun @ January 06, 2007 03:35 pm)
[email protected] 05, 2007 01:24 pm
The post by Jesus Christ! on page two.
Don't take it to heart, it was nothing but a useless rant [/b]
Yeah when some body refutes your STUPID AND IMMATURE posts then it is a useless rant . What a great way of debating !!! really keep it up...

[Don't Change Your Name]

Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2007 07:35 pm
I don't see how what I said is funny. I also don't see how someone could think that if ageism was as widespread as racism is that it wouldn't be as dangerous to society.
Then why don't you just give us an example of how ageism can be compared with sexism, racism and homophobia and their consequences? Maybe you don't because you don't understand what's wrong with sexism, racism and homophobia...or maybe you just need to grow up :lol:

[Fawkes]

or maybe you just need to grow up
Wow... so clever.


Maybe you don't because you don't understand what's wrong with sexism, racism and homophobia...
Of course I understand what's wrong with it, I'm a victim of it.


Then why don't you just give us an example of how ageism can be compared with sexism, racism and homophobia and their consequences?
An example could be how some libertarians believe that nobody over the age of seventy should get health care.

[Jesus Christ!]

I think it's absurd to say that ageism is as damaging as sexism racism or homophobia. I think we can all agree that generally the older you are the more world experiences you have and therefore the more knowledge you have. On my post about Gandhi, I was just cranky and made a post I'm sure half of you didn't read it and the half that did didn't really care about it so no harm no foul. I am also 17 myself so I guess I should've said " fellow teenagers" instead of just teenagers.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 07, 2007 05:20 pm

Maybe you don't because you don't understand what's wrong with sexism, racism and homophobia...
Of course I understand what's wrong with it, I'm a victim of it.

Clearly you don't understand the universal implications of discrimination on the grounds of sex, gender/sex discrepancies, sexuality or "race" - otherwise you would understand why this so called "ageism" isn't worth any real consideration.



Then why don't you just give us an example of how ageism can be compared with sexism, racism and homophobia and their consequences?
An example could be how some libertarians believe that nobody over the age of seventy should get health care. A) Most libertarians don't support the idea of healthcare for anybody.
B) The beliefs of a few libertarians is not quite the same as institutionalised discriminitation and certianly not the same as, for example, entire nations or states in which sodomy is illegal.

Reading posts by members like Jesus Christ! is actually quite reassuring as it shows that I'm not the only teenager who never really gave the time of day to something as stupid as ageism.