The time?

[Underment]

Ive been watching the forum for some time now and I read alot about there not being a Revolution because the "time" isnt right. Some people are going to disagree with what im about to say but I dont give a fuck so here it goes. If the only thing youre doing for the Revolution is sitting on your ass and talking on this forum saying "Once the time comes, Ill show those facists pigs a fight", FUCK YOU! You and the rest of the public is the fucking reason we're in chains now. You may think youre fighting the fight but youre not. Whats left of your rights is currently being trampled and you take it, waiting for the "time" to come. Im not saying you wont fight, but if you want a Revolution, go out there and start a fucking Revolution. I was fed up waiting for the fucking "time", so I went out a started my own Revolution. Now some will say "And what the fuck are you doing for the revolution?" My answer to that is, Underment, The Few know it and The Few join it. I dont mean to ***** but fucking christ people, WE ARE THE "TIME", WE ARE THE REVOLUTION.

This is what I believe and this is where people will ***** at me telling im wrong or some shit but youre *****ing to yourself.

[Fawkes]

When we say that the time for revolution is not right, we mean that the time to take up arms is not now.

Every single action that we do that is in some way anarchist/communist/socialist, is aiding the revolution. The revolution is happening as we speak, it just has yet to reach the point where guns are necessary.

But believe me, almost every single person on this website does things to aid in the revolution, whether it be setting up action groups, organizing strikes, beating up fascists, or just simply educating people on what socialism is.

The time is right for revolution. The revolution has been going on for more than a century, it just has yet to reach the point where we need to take up arms.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2007 12:20 pm
I was fed up waiting for the fucking "time", so I went out a started my own Revolution. Now some will say "And what the fuck are you doing for the revolution?" My answer to that is, Underment, The Few know it and The Few join it. I dont mean to ***** but fucking christ people, WE ARE THE "TIME", WE ARE THE REVOLUTION.


what kind of revolution you went out to? is it work? got some proof that you're in some organization or something like that, that helps you with your own "revolution"?


Whats left of your rights is currently being trampled and you take it, waiting for the "time" to come. Im not saying you wont fight, but if you want a Revolution, go out there and start a fucking Revolution.

haven't you notice that leftist people are minority in the entire world? let me ask you, if we want to start some action or protest, are you goin' to do it by yourself without the help from some organization that are in the same ideologies like you? you can't start a revolution by yourself! that's why we are here to gather some people with the same ideologies, and for actually we're all not in the same country, we here to gather some information and studied about revolution that might be useful to our future movement in our own country.

that's why we will say "the time isn't right." :rolleyes:

[Tekun]

This is more of a rant, someone move it to ChitChat

[Tower of Bebel]

There is no revolutionary party strong and ready enough to support and lead an entire revolution... that's the problem. So join some comrades and help building up a strong leftist organisation/movement and be ready when it'll come.

[Rawthentic]

Its not about some dipshit 'Party' that we need, its a proletarian class consciousness. While this comes mostly according to material conditions present in an era, it is our duty to educate and spread revolutionary ideas to those who need it most.

[Tower of Bebel]

Party or movement

[Forward Union]

This is more of a rant, someone move it to ChitChat

It is, but I think it's relevant to this forum, enough to warrant leaving it here for now. Because rant or not, this person is correct. S/he is perfectly justified in saying "fuck you" to the armchair socialists, who range from academics and bookworms to libertines that think flyposting is revolutionary, to people infected by laziness, that hang around on this forum.

It is however, important to point out to our new member, that not all of our membership falls into this category. Useless though the armchair socialists are, they have the right ideas, and im confident that a little push in the right direction is all they need. Some people simply don't realise the contributions they can make, especially being quite young.

My last few posts and proposals for betterment of this board have all been to try and stimulate the lazy members into getting involved, and to support those who are trying to get active, in every way I can, up to and including meeting them in person. I think, as the moderator of the practice forum that those should be my immediate goals.


if you want a Revolution, go out there and start a fucking Revolution

This statement concerns me because it reflects the failed tactics of groups like the Love and Rage collective and Weather underground. The idea of massing together in a military fashion and attempting to wage revolutionary war, or acts of extreme violence now, is impractical, and counter productive. It would set back the movement, decades. If indeed, the movement survived atall.

We do seem to get on the flipside of the armchair socialists these individuals, who are immature and zealous about 'toteing machine guns' and following the footsteps of the romantic revolutionaries like Che Guevara.

Class struggle is not always like that, especially not in today's political context. It can involve a lot of tedious and boring work. I do not expect newcomers to the political struggle to be entirely aware of what revolution means at this stage, and what exactly 'being active' entails. Yes, we should and must be active to build toward the fight, and no doubt there will (and indeed are) skirmishes between our classes regularly, that we must be prepared to win.

But calling for all out revolutionary war now, is absurd and reflects the lack of involvement you must have with today's movement.

[manic expression]

Love Underground, I agree, but we should recognize a few things.

First, I think it would be a good idea to setup some kind of way in which members could more easily contact one another. We should build up networks, regardless of ideology, and start working on projects that can have an impact, no matter how small.

Second, I feel that the inaction of many leftists is due to a very hostile environment more than laziness. In the US, the workers don't even refer to themselves as "working class", how do you expect them to have any class consciousness? People have been heavily trained to fear socialism, even though few know what it actually means. Nevertheless, I'd like to see a development, perhaps on this board, toward the organization of the workers (and lumpenproletariat, they have more potential than people who call themselves "middle class" IMO). How do you think we could do this? There needs to be a discussion on how to facilitate more action.

[Knight of Cydonia]

i think this topic starter are just trolling...coz he/she never logged in again in this site...does he/she? :huh:

[Underment]

Yeah, theres alot of people doing something for the Cause, I was addressing the people who talk about how corrupted the government is but they do just that, talk and nothing else. And on my part, I have and continue to do my Mission for the Revolution. What it is, is nothing that I can or will explain over the internet. I have no respect for the lazy talkers here but if you do contribute to the Revolution and I offened you, sorry. My thread wasnt aimed at you.

[Nemichka]

There are def. a lot of people on here who are not "armchair revolutionaries" at all,
and there is a revolution going on.
I am proof of that.
People are slowly realizing the truth.
Before about august, I never questioned anything... I thought people like Che were evil.
There is a revolution going on with people. I want to do something, but I am not ready in any sense. I do not know how to fight (I am a girl and I am not physically strong yet; I am training) and cannot even really debate very well.
People are getting ready. We are not just sitting here wishing.
I work out.
I read.
I wait.
What do YOU suggest we do?

[which doctor]

There is no revolutionary party strong and ready enough to support and lead an entire revolution... that's the problem. So join some comrades and help building up a strong leftist organisation/movement and be ready when it'll come.
There will never be a revolutionary party strong enough to lead a revolution, so stop waiting for one.

Revolution isn't something we wait for. It's not something we plan for. It's not something we try to make happen.

Revolution is us. It's all around us. We are the revolution. If you look closely you will see it in everyday life all around you. You just need a good eye ;).

[YSR]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 10:35 pm
Revolution is us. It's all around us. We are the revolution. If you look closely you will see it in everyday life all around you. You just need a good eye ;).
Right on, Raoul.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by manic [email protected] 04, 2007 04:23 pm
We should build up networks, regardless of ideology



How do you think we could do this?

I find it very interesting to hear yet another person bring this issue up. Im not sure what triggers these clear trends but nearly everyone I know in the struggle over the past few months has started adopting this idea of building a non-sectarian "international" And these people range from lenninits to Primitivists.

I couldn't agree more, but I don't think we should go into it, in this thread. It's an entirely different discussion. But I can't resist dipping into it briefly.

You may or may not have heard of the zapatistas "other campaign" or read the 6th declaration (http://www.narconews.com/Issue40/article1527.html) but they are probably behind this trend I mentioned earlier. The zaps want to build another international, of sorts. And in the UK, ideas have revolved around forming a non-sectarian national federation, that will involve (ideally) all of the left, from the Stalinists, the SWP to Class War and the Anarchist federation. They would all have equal say, and so no group would be able to dominate. I don't need to go into explaining the pros and cons.

I recommend you look into it. Hopefully over the next few years such a network is actually built.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 02:18 am
What do YOU suggest we do?
There is a lot you can do. But it depends on your geographic location, occupation, and class background.

But wherever you are, your contributions could be infinitely useful to local/national organisations. All sorts of stuff needs doing from writing articles for revolutionary publications, to sorting out logistics for certain events (which is no easy task), functioning as a delegate for various groups, distributing materials. There are of course more militant, revolutionary activities like economic sabotage, and occupations but these are often very local-specific. And if you don't feel physically up for it, then there's no point in jumping in.

At the moment we should be focussing on network building, between organisations, and anti-capitalist individuals, like yourself.

I say it all the time, but if you let me know where you are, and what your situation is, Im sure I'll be able to get you involved. There is a group near you that needs you.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 05, 2007 08:13 am
What it is, is nothing that I can or will explain over the internet.
what kind of action that makes you can't explain it here?


I have no respect for the lazy talkers here

who do you mean by that anyway? do you ever have a problem with someone's on this forum?


My thread wasnt aimed at you

yeah i can see that :unsure:

[freakazoid]

A few people waking up and realising that communism/anarchy isn't evil isn't much of a revolution. Some people marching and chanting slogans isn't much of a revolution. Not saying that it doesn't have any puropose, it just doesn't really change anything. How many people have actually changed there mind about what communism/anarchy really is because of those marchs. A revolution is when you actually change the current system. SO I say that there hasn't been one yet.

[Nemichka]

A few people waking up and realising that communism/anarchy isn't evil isn't much of a revolution. Some people marching and chanting slogans isn't much of a revolution. Not saying that it doesn't have any puropose, it just doesn't really change anything. How many people have actually changed there mind about what communism/anarchy really is because of those marchs. A revolution is when you actually change the current system. SO I say that there hasn't been one yet.

I think he was trying to say that there is a revolution going on with people and their thinking...
Like I said earlier, I would say I am proof of a revolution, because someone started telling me about all this, and I went from someone who wanted to work in the government to a self-proclaimed and proud anarchist, because I just started reading the facts, and being educated on what everything REALLY meant...
he wasn't talking about a revolution in a physical sense.
People are starting to learn, which is another type of revolution in itself.

[freakazoid]

I think he was trying to say that there is a revolution going on with people and their thinking...

In a sense it is and in a sense it's not. hmm... Anything that is aimed at bringing down the current establishment would be considered a revolutionary act, like getting people to realise what it is that we really stand for. But that alone isn't the revolution.

[Forward Union]

Well, "the revolution" is more of a process than an event. The CNT didn't just spring up in opposition to Franco in 1936, it was built over decades. And the process of building a revolutionary organisation obviously took a lot of slow, "boring" work, national/local meetings, small actions, etc. I would still call this process (which is going on now in many countries) revolutionary preparation. But whether it's "revolutionary" or not is semantic, it needs to be done.

Though I do maintain that we're always on the back foot of revolutions, which are certainly predictable, but we don't start them. They're organic and spontaneous.

[freakazoid]

No argument from me that it needs to be done.