Should a Comy remain a Comy? - Times Are A Changing

[RaoulHDuke]

Is communism a worthwhile effort? this was the question on my mind as I enterd the DNC rally arena with recorder in hand. The Comy community was out in force with their man Nader on the line I was qurious to find out more about how they felt about their chances in the political arena.
Needless to say I found out that there are two Lefts. The Militant, repressed assholes who get in your face and the Peaceful Political spokesmen for the party that wish to try to open up your thinking, only if you speak with them.
I've come to the realization that the militants will go to jail or gaol (where ever the reader is from), and the peaceful political spokesmen will die out before they change anything.
So, my question amongst the living and the dying out there...would be...are times changing in a bad way? Has the dream of a comy world failed us? Are we all just waiting in the sun? or with the sun? or perhaps even FOR the sun?

---Questions, Questions.

[pce]

first of all, i have to say, that is the coolest avatar thing i've seen. Fear and loathing is great!

as for your post. it is very thought provoking. i think everyone will have to do a lot of soul searching to find out what the right path is. i will respond to it after i think about it some more.

however the most important thing is to not give up. not only should we not give up the goal, we should also not give up searching for the solution. at different times we will be moving towards our goal at different paces. whether we inch towards it or race towards it, we will always be getting closer as long as we don't give up.

that sounds very cliche, but what the hell...

[Nickademus]

i'm going to take a stab at this. i don't think the peaceful protestor will die before s/he makes a change. if we can change one person's mind and lead them on the righ tpath (be it socialism, communism or anarchism) then we have not failed. we have to start from the bottom up as have many other organizations. we are currently at the stage of the revolution of the mind and i can see change already in the number of people in my generation who adhere to leftist principles.

we may not have communism/socialism/anarchy in my time, i may very well die out before then, but at least i have either set the ball in motion or gave it a push along the way.

[Ernestito]

First of all, i know that the communist idealist will never die.
I strongly believe that while the icon of the "El Che" torment lives the ideas will never die.


(Edited by Ernestito at 2:52 am on Oct. 4, 2001)

[drunktank]

We know it's a dream,
and therefore unrealistic
but we're idealists,
we chase our dreams.

[Jurhael]

Capitalism was considered a dream during the Fuedalistic eras.

[AgustoSandino]

There can be only one Hunter S.!!!!

[vox]

Juhael,

I don't think that capitalism was a dream at all. The mode of production was not capitalist, and it wasn't until the factory that capitalism became possible. Indeed, the proletariat class, which Marx called the revolutionary class, didn't exist under Feudalism, it is a creation of capitalist social relations.

As to the first post in this thread, ummm, Nader? I voted for him, and as I explained in a rant on my site, I did it as a protest, for a protest in large numbers is generally more effective, and McReynolds wasn't on the ticket. But to say that Nader supoprters are Commies is to ignore the philospohical foundations of Marxism and, also, to make Nader far, far more "radical" than he is.

vox

[reagan lives]

First of all, keep working on that "Campaign Trail '72" impression, Raoul.

Second of all, I've never actually heard anyone argue that communism in and of itself is a worthwhile goal at all. Communism is a means to an end, it is not an end in itself. Unless you're Stalin.

[CPK]

well reagan, who did you ask? your father?
your boss? your co-workers?

[Jurhael]

I was trying to say that people likely believed that Feudalism was impossible to change. Where is it now?

[drunktank]

reagan,

For me real communism IS the end,
because it's just perfect.

[Drifter]

communism isn't perfect you dumb fuck,
its all theory,, it doesn't work when put into practice

[Che Che Ya Ya]

One only knows a communist when one is a communist. The answers to your question lies within, young hefer.

[Moskitto]

Quote: from Jurhael on 5:36 am on Oct. 5, 2001
I was trying to say that people likely believed that Feudalism was impossible to change. Where is it now?


I try and tell that to my capitalist friends and they never listen. They just say "Fuedalism is Old." They don't seem to understand the concept of "progress" I mean come on.

A quote from the laws of 16th century England.

"You [local lords] may wear not wear Satin, Silver or Pearls. You may wear Yarn costing over 10 shillings a yard and if you see a commoner wearing such a material he may be put in the stocks and whipped."

It wasn't Capitalism, Capitalism is "If you have the money you can do it" basicly. Fuedalism controls what you can buy depending on what class you're in.

[drunktank]

no, communism IS perfect
when applied perfectly.

but it's never aplied perfectly.

[RedCeltic]

Shit Dunktank.... think about what you said...anything is "perfect" if applied" perfectly"..... If Perfect communism is applied, than Pefect communism will be implemented, but how do you apply or get to perfect commuism? I think that is the main question.

And also, I can't be sure, but what Jurhael said,, seems to go with my belief that If Capatalism is the natural decendant of feudalism, than what must follow capitalism must surly be socialism... and then communism.

[drunktank]

then change "perfectly" with "correct"
or "as in paper".

my bad knowledge of English
doesn't help me to express myself.

[drunktank]

Quote: from Drifter on 2:58 pm on Oct. 5, 2001
communism isn't perfect you dumb fuck,
its all theory,, it doesn't work when put into practice


then have a look at mount athos

[AgustoSandino]

agree, reagan. And as a corrollary: it is not the only means to that end.

[RedCeltic]

Sorry drunktank... I understand you now...

[RedSteve]

1, I thought Nader was a Green, but then I'm out of touch with US politics.

2, Comy, what is that? Commie, Communist? If thats what you meant then either you think it is a worth while venture or you don't. What is Communism, no one has actually written a blue print for that society, certainly not Marx. Other than a society which is not at odds with itself, a society where the social contradictions have been resolved (the negation of negation). (Bogdanov wrote the Red Star, a Sci-Fi tomb) but I wouldn't take it to heart.

3, reagan lives, I don't even know why I am bothering to respond to your comments. In fact I am not responding to them for your benifit but am using them for the rest of the users of this site. Communism is the objective beleive it or not. However, just because a society is lead by Communists doesn't mean that that is communism. The CPSU continually told their citizens that they were on the verge of reaching communism, they never said that they had achieved it. I personally don't think they were on the right road, but that has little to do with Stalin or any other leader. Social forces beyond the control of anyone in Russia forced the situation that arose in that society. Stalin made things worse I grant, but I think your problems with communism are based in on an understanding that is promoted by the capitalist media and education system.

4, I don't know much about the CPUSA, if that is who you are talking about. But whether you like them or not, people who spend their time fighting day in day out for a better world may not bring about the changes needed in the world, but without them the capitalists would walk right over us.

I have a real grudge against the Stalinists of the 50s and 60s because they sold a real chance of revolution down the river. Hungary '56, Czechoslovakia '68, Paris '68 ... The capitulation of the Communist Parties of Europe to the Moscow line in these revolutions set us back in our fight a good deal. But now the Soviet Bloc is gone, we can start to build our movement again.

My advice to you is to Raoul, is to get involved in the Anti War Movement where ever you are and judge the people not only by what they say, their objectives, but how they achieve their results. Some will have great ideas but be incapable of getting out of bed in the morning, others will be up at the crack of dawn buit their ideas will be archaic. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, to quote an Old English saying, unless you get involved you will never know or be able to comment.

I hope my comments were of use.

[kevolution]

comrades,
for me, communism and socialism are one and the same, as long as we are all marxists. However, i do have problems with certain elements of the left, namely unreconstructed stalinists (such as those who backed Milosovic) and ultra-maoists, such as the shining path in peru who have killed union leaders, and see virtually no role for the working class in revolution. Speaking as a trot, i assume that the collapse of the ussr has shown that stalinism and socialism in one country, or socialism in selective countries will not work. We have to start building this thing again, and the antiwar and anti capitalist movements offer some hope, but only if we sieze it... Viva Revolucion

[kevolution]

by the way, i said i was a trot, but im not uktra trot like the Spartacist League!!!

[Moskitto]

kevolution that is basicly what I think.

[socialistscumbag666]

Drunk tank is right. communism could be perfect, and I think it can still carry on. I myself am only young, yet still realise the true ideas etc, and pass them on to my friends, who are now comrades too. In this way, the spirit of communism can live on forever.

[Fires of History]

RhaolDuke interesting thought.

I think that I will never live in a Communist society, at least not here in Canada in my lifetime.

But I will always remain a Communist because it is my hope that by staying as left as I can, that maybe I will contribute to the force that brings things more in the middle-and hopefully eventually from the middle to the far left.

It's far right at the moment. Money is the only value.

And we need an extreme left to counter the extreme right.

Power to the People,
Trance