Calvinism

[Pow R. Toc H.]

I am reading a book called "Escape from Freedom" By Eric Fromm and im about dead in the middle of it, what its talking about now is the Reformation. It says that after the middle ages and the death of the feudal system the Renaissance brought forth the beginning of capitalism and from capitalism sprung Calvinism and Lutheranism. These to religions were particularly favored by the middle and poor classes and helped them deal with the hostility they had towards the rich and upper class. The main ideology of Calvinism is said to be that before birth your path has been chosen by God. No matter what you do throughout your life you will go to heaven or hell depending on the path god has chosen for you. This means that "God" has created people unequally and that some people are favored more than others. Calvinism was especially popular in Germany, and to me this seams to be where the Nazi Ideology could of originated. Any thoughts? Am I way off base?

[Demogorgon]

It is an interesting thought, however a lot of Nazis came from the Southern parts fo Gernmany and famously Austria which are predominantly Catholic and at any rate most of them weren't very religious and some such as Himmler went in for some very strange esoteric ideas which were not Christian.

However they would of course have been exposed to the general attitudes originating from Calvanism and that must have had some effect I suppose.

[Phalanx]

The myth of European supremacy has been around for such a long time it's difficult to say what really influenced Nazism. Calvinism was just a small part of this myth. European imperialism could have influenced Nazism just as much as religion. The reason the victims of imperialism were treated so inhumanely is because of the belief of European supremacy. Hitler himself admired how the US government ran concentration camps for the Native Americans. It's all these factors coming together that brought about Nazism.

[Pow R. Toc H.]

Thank you for the insight. I was just curious what others thought on the topic.

[Dimentio]

Fred Phelps is a modern example [and caricature] of an ultra-calvinist.

[RedKnight]

John Calvin certainly was a clerical fascist. For example he burned people, like Michael Servetus, at the stake. He was certainly a theocratic tyrant.

[ZX3]

Originally posted by The Crying [email protected] 01, 2007 03:56 pm
I am reading a book called "Escape from Freedom" By Eric Fromm and im about dead in the middle of it, what its talking about now is the Reformation. It says that after the middle ages and the death of the feudal system the Renaissance brought forth the beginning of capitalism and from capitalism sprung Calvinism and Lutheranism. These to religions were particularly favored by the middle and poor classes and helped them deal with the hostility they had towards the rich and upper class. The main ideology of Calvinism is said to be that before birth your path has been chosen by God. No matter what you do throughout your life you will go to heaven or hell depending on the path god has chosen for you. This means that "God" has created people unequally and that some people are favored more than others. Calvinism was especially popular in Germany, and to me this seams to be where the Nazi Ideology could of originated. Any thoughts? Am I way off base?

There are definite religious implications in the rise of National Socialism. Their political strength was in northern, not southern, Germany. Northern Germany was the land of the reformation, of Protestantism and Calvinism. Catholic Germans gave the nazis little, if any support.

[RedCeltic]

Sadly I am unaware of what role Calvinism played in Germany and the rise of fascism. I know that because Martin Luther had been from Germany, there was a lot of nationalist feelings tied up with the Lutheran Church in Germany at the time. During the third Reich it was common to see the swastika alongside a cross within a Lutheran Church.

What Calvinism is most associated with is the rise of Puritanism. Puritans in England and Scotland (and latter New England) had mostly been people who had grievances with the Church of England and turned to a strict following of John Calvin. In Scotland the Presbyterian Church (Church of Scotland) had been founded on Calvinism, yet has abandoned most of his teachings and is somewhat more Liberal in the United States... and somewhat more conservative in Ireland.

The Puritans didn't just believe in predestination. They believed it was the job of the few who were pure to keep the others in line. This pretty much explains the harsh laws and penalties of the New England colonies that had been settled by them. Also the bloody policies of Oliver Cromwell when he set out to rid Ireland of evil Catholics by slaughtering a good portion of Ireland's population.

As I said, I don't know exactly if or how they would be linked.... yet Calvinism is probably just as brutal as fascism. :angry:

[Pow R. Toc H.]

Originally posted by ZX3+January 08, 2007 09:52 pm--> (ZX3 @ January 08, 2007 09:52 pm)
The Crying [email protected] 01, 2007 03:56 pm
I am reading a book called "Escape from Freedom" By Eric Fromm and im about dead in the middle of it, what its talking about now is the Reformation. It says that after the middle ages and the death of the feudal system the Renaissance brought forth the beginning of capitalism and from capitalism sprung Calvinism and Lutheranism. These to religions were particularly favored by the middle and poor classes and helped them deal with the hostility they had towards the rich and upper class. The main ideology of Calvinism is said to be that before birth your path has been chosen by God. No matter what you do throughout your life you will go to heaven or hell depending on the path god has chosen for you. This means that "God" has created people unequally and that some people are favored more than others. Calvinism was especially popular in Germany, and to me this seams to be where the Nazi Ideology could of originated. Any thoughts? Am I way off base?

There are definite religious implications in the rise of National Socialism. Their political strength was in northern, not southern, Germany. Northern Germany was the land of the reformation, of Protestantism and Calvinism. Catholic Germans gave the nazis little, if any support. [/b]
So than I was correct in my theory?

[ZX3]

Originally posted by The Crying Orc+January 08, 2007 08:02 pm--> (The Crying Orc @ January 08, 2007 08:02 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2007 09:52 pm

The Crying [email protected] 01, 2007 03:56 pm
I am reading a book called "Escape from Freedom" By Eric Fromm and im about dead in the middle of it, what its talking about now is the Reformation. It says that after the middle ages and the death of the feudal system the Renaissance brought forth the beginning of capitalism and from capitalism sprung Calvinism and Lutheranism. These to religions were particularly favored by the middle and poor classes and helped them deal with the hostility they had towards the rich and upper class. The main ideology of Calvinism is said to be that before birth your path has been chosen by God. No matter what you do throughout your life you will go to heaven or hell depending on the path god has chosen for you. This means that "God" has created people unequally and that some people are favored more than others. Calvinism was especially popular in Germany, and to me this seams to be where the Nazi Ideology could of originated. Any thoughts? Am I way off base?

There are definite religious implications in the rise of National Socialism. Their political strength was in northern, not southern, Germany. Northern Germany was the land of the reformation, of Protestantism and Calvinism. Catholic Germans gave the nazis little, if any support.
So than I was correct in my theory? [/b]
Lutheranism was more to Germany's style thn calvinism, though the old stereotypes of "Prussianism" is nothing more than calvinism. The "equality" argument is applied in the wrong direction, I think.

[Pow R. Toc H.]

Than What direction should it be applied?

Also Calvinism was largely popular in Germany and created alot social hostility.

[ZX3]

Originally posted by The Crying [email protected] 10, 2007 08:58 pm
Than What direction should it be applied?

Also Calvinism was largely popular in Germany and created alot social hostility.
I think the argument is moving in the direction of saying that it evolved so that the Germans could treat the Jews unequally. But the way to look at it is to look at it in the sense what it meant for the Germans view of themselves, and interaction amongst themselves.