Communism or New Left? - We must chose a route

[Anonymous]

I will put foward here what i think is the most importante question we must ask our selfs in the world of today: follow comunist dogma or make a new one? I for one chose the second one. Frist i must adress the issue of freedom, this is an essencial ingrediante in any just and equal society we wish to achive, and this did not happen in the russian comunist society because Stalin betrade the true comunist ideals. But you must not mistake me for i do not dispute communism because the atempts to make it happen resulted in tirany. I have doubts that if you dont have to work for your self u will work at all, i also believe that some social stratification is inevitable.Now the one system party is totaly unexceptable, what ever we do to put an end to the exploitation of man by capitalist intrests must be done in freedom or it will not be credible. We must work together to find this new way, to find new solutions to the porblems that we all see, to find a credible altenative to capitalist economic system and to make ppl awear of what is being done to them and to all of us around the world.
I know may of our comrades still believe in the comunist dogmatic society and we must respect there beliefs, but i think the world has changed so mutch that we must foward so "avante camarada avante!"

[Markxs]

the ppl havent changed the world hasnt changed.

the leaders are still in power we must do everything to maket that stop.

i believe in ppl that fight for their ideals ones we hep them with their education, m,oney is not important for ppl who want to help eachoter

if there is total freedom you can do whatever you like without hurting others, and have a vote on everymatter not important wich status you have.

in almost every situation were a person gets in power the power becomes more important then the ideals.

so we should not let any be leaders just 'helpers' who stay humble to their ppl.

no leaders, equals!

-A-

[paris.]

I am most in favor of decentralized stateless socialism, small autonomous coop-districts that maintain a fair distribution of the wealth and alternatives to the depleting natural resources that have been arrogantly harnessed by the state apparatus and profiteered from.




(Edited by Valkyrie at 7:16 am on Aug. 8, 2001)

[scottish socialist]

here in scotland we have the beginnings of a new left comrades. Our aim is that the ideas of socialism will once again penetrate into scottish society. we are fighting back after the crimes of stalinism, so often illustrated by those who disagree with us as being "socialism" and where socialism would supposedly lead to. We must fight the myth that capitalism works and socialism fails, a myth which the mainstream media more and more often bombards us with, along with the supposed "success" of the market economy. we must be open again about our beliefs, about our opposition to the "free" market, which may sound heretical, especially living in britain like i do, where opposition to the economic system which supposedly brings us all wealth and prosperity is stifled.

My opinion is that socialism should be instrumented in a form where there are independent co-operatives but a governmental structure must be there in order to aid the workings of the society. When changing from capitalism to socialism, we will, here in scotland, take into public control those industries essential to the needs of the populace, such as health (being privatised now) education, transport, construction and all natural resources as well as others, into democratic workers and community control. I would like to think that if che was around today he would wholeheartedly support us in our fight

[Anonymous]

The trouble is that the "left" in many instances have failed the working classes, they have not been able to make Socialism work for ordinary people, most on the left (myself included) are middle class and they haven't really brought the Working class on board. Some are downright hostile to the Working Class and others (again I am in this category) have more respect for the Working Classes but lack the experience of working class life to make Socialism relevant. I'm not saying I don't want Socialism, it is just that reading fancy books wearing Chez Guevara T-Shirts and masturbating over Karl Marx won't solve the problems of the world.

[kingbee]

goodquestion- someone who i know told me that he wished someone would now kick start socialsim/communism, and point it out, and bring it to notice as has happened in the past- lenin and then mao. but it has to be said that the manifesto was written over 100 years ago- when conditions were much different. maybe a new sort could be thought of- but not anyone could do it- marx and engels werent just anyone!

[Nickademus]

but communism has changed from its original ideals. we see that on this board

[cubist]

yes we see that communism has and is changing but we still have the barrier of those unaware of such changes who see it as it was with someone in charge that book animal farm is how most see communism then and now and for this reason communism would have too be enforced upon the poeple which would remove one of my favourite ideals which is that we are all equal but we wont be if it is forced upon those who do not wish so

[DaNatural]

great post donal that last line had me cracking up. im 19, a student and have worked some horrific jobs, factory jobs among them, and currently a job in a beer store, which is something we have here in toronto canada. now i havnt endured some of the worst jobs nor do i have to work full time in brutal conditions but i talk to the ones who have to do monotonous work for the rest of their life, and all they want is security. they want to know that they have a home, if their kids are sick that they will be treated, proper education etc. in all of us their is a part of us that would like fancy things, in my ideal society there is equality and everyone is intitled to the same human needs. but for those who want more they can acheive more, whether they work harder or reach a level of education which would give them a job such as a doctor. people can still gain wealth but not at the expense of putting there fellow man on the street or by forcing them out of there land to make room for "new condominiums" i think communism for todays world just needs to be altered a tad. peace

[MattTheCat]

A common misconception on this board seems to be that George Orwell was anti-communist/socialist. HE WAS A SOCIALIST. It was a commentary on Soviet communism and Stalin's warped ideals along with all totalitarian governments. People like George Orwell do more to help the socialist cause than most... don't think he is trying to give people wrong impressions.

[Moskitto]

Yes Communism has changed but I don't think enforcing it onto people is the right awnser. Educate people on what it really is, why it's good and stand in elections, give tv interviews.

[Zapatista]

The new left is just a concillatory vanguard of bullshit for capitalism and neo-colonialism. All the reform "New Left does is make the governments and capitalism appear responsive to the peoples needs to stave of a revolution. We can see quite transparently how even Labour in Britain, Democrats in the U.S. and the Social Democrats on the continent go along complicitlly with the WTO and World Bank's exploitation of the third World, and indeed they even welcome so called free trade. Free for the bourgeoisie to exploit is all that is. Revolution is the only way. All the petty reforms and concessions of the center-fake left parties will only mask the inherent inequities of the system and try to make the people complacent. Cut through the bullshit my friends. Revolution is the only way!
El Che Vive

[Guest]

Right, I am soooooo fucking sick of the deference paid to the conformist sludge that has infiltrated the movement.

[Guest]

El Che, Your question is an important one but it will not be decided a-priori. There is a great deal of fragmentation on the left, anyone looking for left alternatives is faced with a myriad of bewildering choices between anarchism, ecology, reformism, revolution ... But these choices are artificial when none offer any real solutions. There is a need for not only a new force in world but a new politics to go with it. lets face it, no existing party of any influence offers real challenge. This leaves a space for the ideas of socialism to be address anew. I beleive that Marxist theories can and should be the basis of this new politic and that preventing them from becoming a dogma, the rigid application of theory, should be centrel to that project.

Steve

[Moskitto]

I actually think the most effective way of bringing down capitalism is to cut off the supply of cheap raw materials.

All we need to do is go and give leaflets about communism to a few hundred people in Africa.

Africa decides they don't like living under rule by the imperialists and rebel against their government then form communist governments who would be unwilling to sell goods at such stupidly cheap prices.

The inflation starts going through the roof in most of the western world and people get pissed off about not having any money.

Then the infrastructure begins to improve in Africa while everyone is in extreme poverty in the West.

Then everyone in the west rebels and does the same.

[socialistscumbag666]

I'm a member of a new left party in Britain called the Socialist Workers' Party. They represent the working class and a new kind of communism.

According to their manifesto they are "an organisation of revolutionary socialists dedicated to the overthrow of capitalism internationally and the construction of a world socialist system. The SWP stands in and develops the revolutionary Communist traditions of Marx, Lenin and Trotsky, as opposed to the social democratic and Stalinist traditions."

It believes that the working class are the only force capable of building socialism in the world and therefore it strives to construct a party composed of workers, hence the Socialist Workers party.

Well, what d'you think to that then?

[Rob]

I believe in socialism/communism. However, I'm a council/left communist. For those that don't know, council communists believe in the self-emancipation of the working people of the world. We don't believe in the authoritarianism of vanguard parties, or the compromise of social democracy. We believe in direct democracy. That being said, I personally believe that Marxism needs to revised for modern times, what with the new video-culture/mind control of the mainstream media, and all the new computer technology. Also, the "new left" of the 1960s had it's ups and downs. Organizations like the Black Panther Party and Students for a Democratic Society had some good ideas. Also, the anti-war movement was definitely a good thing. However, "free love" and pacifism, although nice in theory had serious downsides. Had I been alive, I would have opposed the war because of its imperialism, not its violence. It's not that I'm pro-violence, it's just that I believe in using any non-civillian killing methods to achieve one's goals, although I believe violence should only be used in the most EXTREME circumstances.

[Son of Scargill]

Quote: from Moskitto on 10:25 pm on Sep. 19, 2001
I actually think the most effective way of bringing down capitalism is to cut off the supply of cheap raw materials.

All we need to do is go and give leaflets about communism to a few hundred people in Africa.

Africa decides they don't like living under rule by the imperialists and rebel against their government then form communist governments who would be unwilling to sell goods at such stupidly cheap prices.

The inflation starts going through the roof in most of the western world and people get pissed off about not having any money.

Then the infrastructure begins to improve in Africa while everyone is in extreme poverty in the West.

Then everyone in the west rebels and does the same.


Sorry moskitto,but get real will ya!
There are hundreds of thousands of communists/socialists/left-wing activists and groups trying to defend human rights in Africa already.They're getting the shit kicked out of them daily for their troubles.As for governments turning communist,well a good example was the marxist government in Ethiopia during the drought that created the"charity not change" (or "Live Aid"as we know it)movement.Whilst wheat was being airlifted in,three times that amount was being shipped out to make american whisky,to pay the interest on their national debt!the govt. were given no option by the world bank,on a debt rung up by a former govt.Also some corporations complained that their trucks were being diverted to deliver aid,and it was affecting their profits........The third world at the moment cannot stand up to the West.Capitalism MUST be toppled on our side.That's why we need a way forward.I just wish I had some of the answers.
BTW, I don't normally rant on at people for their views,but I found that a particularly stupid rationale.

[gogo gomez]

My opinion is that socialism should be instrumented in a form where there are independent co-operatives but a governmental structure must be there in order to aid the workings of the society. . I would like to think that if che was around today he would wholeheartedly support us in our fight


okay, now this makes sense except you dont need to use the word "socialism" . each person should govern themselves as seen appropriate for that "time". most of Guevara's frustrations stemmed from not enough people doing "ones" share, it was like he was suppose to do the "thinking" for everyone. good point you make. very hopeful even though it's simple, or im too simple minded, but i like your thinking otherwise.

[AR]

New left or socialdemocracy are the biggest frauds in the history of the socialist movement.They are anti-revolutinary and the only thing they say is that a revolution is neither possible nor needed.Their two primary views are:The system can be overthrown by the inside(Yeah right!) and that we must reform marxist-leninist theory because it isn't anymore up-to-date!!!I have one thing to say:Remember what leftists did in Germany in 1918 to Spartacus or what they did to Partito Comunista in Italy