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Anonymous
20th July 2001, 11:21
Comrades,
I am an Irish Republican it is clear that many on this board are too. Would it be possible to have Irish Republican theory as a significant part of this discussion board?

RedCeltic
24th July 2001, 05:59
I agree that Irish Republicanism is a significant topic for this forum. I would like to post a clip from SinnFein's mailing list of republican news...

>>>>>> THE SILENT WAR


After another sickening litany of sectarian attacks by loyalists
in the last few days, Sinn Fein chief negotiator Mr Martin
McGuinness has accused unionist leaders of remaining silent about
violence against Catholics.

A creche, a church, a hospital and a sports club were among the
targets of loyalist bombers, gunmen and arsonists.

Families living near loyalist areas are being terrorised on a
daily basis, and tensions have reached boiling point.

"The unionists are not jumping up and down about the ongoing
attacks on the Catholic community," McGuinness said.

"David Trimble and many leaders within his party, and Mr Paisley
and others, are absolutely silent about these attacks whilst at
the same time they are jumping up and down effectively about the
guns that are silent."

RedCeltic
30th July 2001, 17:43
Via Workers World News Service
Reprinted from the Aug. 2, 2001
issue of Workers World newspaper
-------------------------

NORTHERN IRELAND: TENSIONS AT A BOILING POINT

By Sue Kelly

In the six counties of north Ireland, gangs of "loyalist"
youths have been rampaging through cities and towns during
the annual summer "marching season" of these Irish right-
wing groups.

The term loyalist goes back to 1690, when the Protestant
king William of Orange defeated the Catholic king James II.
That battle has become the rallying cry and excuse for
bombs, murders, arson and destruction against Irish
republicans--those who want to end British rule so Ireland
can be a united, sovereign and independent republic.

The loyalists are an extreme faction of the unionist
movement, so-called because it is for continued union with
Britain. They have the support and collusion of the British
government, which still occupies the six counties 80 years
after the rest of Ireland won its independence.

This time of year also has meant even greater violations of
the civil rights and safety of the nationalist and
republican--predominantly Catholic--communities.

Homes, churches, a sports club and a hospital in the
nationalist communities have been among the targets of
loyalist mobs, bombs, snipers and arsonists in the recent
round of violence. A daycare school in north Belfast was
riddled with bullets.

A loyalist group called the Red Hand Defenders claimed
responsibility for attacking the children's center. They
stated, "All nationalist people [are] hostile and legitimate
targets." Seven children and daycare workers were forced to
huddle in a toy cupboard to avoid the shots.

A Catholic church in County Tyrone was bombed and Catholic-
owned small businesses in Newtownstewart were targeted by a
mob of nearly 100 loyalists in the early hours of July 12,
the high point of the Protestant marching calendar.
Nationalist residents were forced to flee their homes in
east Belfast as heavy rioting followed intense loyalist
provocations.

"Families living near loyalist areas are being terrorized on
a daily basis, and tensions here have reached a boiling
point," reported the Republican News on July 22.

In the meantime, the current Irish peace process, based on
the 1998 Good Friday Agreement (GFA), is mired in the
refusal of the loyalist/unionist forces to cooperate. They
attempt--again with British government assistance--to blame
all delays on the nationalist/republican position,
specifically the Irish Republican Army and the nationalist
political party Sinn Fein. In fact, the IRA has maintained a
four-year-long cease-fire and Sinn Fein has honored every
promise it made since the signing of the agreement in 1998.

Sinn Fein chairperson Mitchel McLaughlin points out that
the key points of the three-year-old agreement have not been
implemented. These include ending the widespread violations
of human rights by the Royal Ulster Constabulary--the police
force in the six counties--and the removal of the thousands
of British troops stationed there.

The problem is the failure of the British government to get
out of the six counties, or even to live up to its
responsibilities under the GFA in all the key areas:
policing, human rights, criminal justice, demilitarization
and equality of treatment. A joint proposal from the British
and Irish governments is expected to be announced at any
moment, but many do not expect much.

- END -

(Copyright Workers World Service: Everyone is permitted to
copy and distribute verbatim copies of this document, but
changing it is not allowed. For more information contact
Workers World, 55 W. 17 St., NY, NY 10011; via e-mail:
[email protected] For subscription info send message to:
[email protected] Web: http://www.workers.org)

scottish socialist
8th August 2001, 14:43
Donal, as a scottish republican I would wholeheartedly welcome you onto this board. The british state has always been one of the chief bulwarks of transnational capitalism and imperialism. I support all groups which fight back against that institution. That is not to say that I have no misgivings about certain paramilitary actions which have seen the killing of civilians, but those on british army side of the divide are as much to blame, if not more so, for that as irish republicans, who bear the brunt of british establishment media blame for atrocities. The break up of the british state would be one of the most symbolic moments in the fight back against capitalism, that is why I believe in and support the fight fo an independent socialist scotland, and I also support the fight for a united socialist ireland, although that solution would need to make concessions to northern irish protestants, as no matter the good intentions of those in the republican movement, there will always be those on the otherside of the divide with misgivings. Most importantly, we must all fight back against the United Kingdom and its capitalist and imperialist devices, peacefully, but resolutely.

Jazz Terrorist
1st September 2001, 02:14
As a Scotsman I too strongly believe in Irish Republicanism. And as far as Im concerned, any action undertaken to destroy, hurt or dismantle the destructive tendencies of British (or any other forms of) imperialism and capitalism are not only righteous but sometimes are the only solutions to this vile cancerous belief that still hangs around in the 21st century, namely that Britannia rules the waves. You're either part of the solution, or your part of the problem!

paris.
1st September 2001, 02:26
Echo, jazz terrorist. I fully agree.

Jazz Terrorist
1st September 2001, 03:38
Thanks for the reply Valkyrie. I think its great that such a website as this exists where we can all come together and discuss what links and binds us all together - socialist belief in our brothers and sisters regardless of their race, gender, sexuality and nationality. As for Republicanism, well, thanks to the media all we ever hear about is the decommissioning of IRA weapons. I'd like to ask why we never hear about the decommisioning of loyalist weapons? Or is that conveniently forgotten about by the British Govt? P.s. Are there any comrades out there who have any thoughts about the Baader-Meinhof group or would like to start a discussion about them?

Moskitto
3rd September 2001, 21:31
Even though I am English I agree with Irish republicanism. I have been to Ireland and I have come to the conclusion that the North shares more with the Republic than it does with the Union.

celticsocialist
25th October 2001, 14:02
The whole idea of the United Kingdom is a joke. I am glad to see fellow Scots sharing my views on Scotland and Ireland. With regards to the British occupation of Ireland, I would like to know how long is it after stealing something that doesn`t belong to you,before you can claim to rightfully own it.
The site of the union flag turns my stomach.
If anyone English is reading this I can assure you I am in no way anti English, but everything about Britain makes me sick. Its the year 2001 and still someone in this country can be born more important than someone else. I`m away to calm down now.

Moskitto
25th October 2001, 20:37
I regard myself as English not British.

celticsocialist
26th October 2001, 11:08
Glad to hear it Moskitto. Seems to me that this is becoming the general feeling in England, would you agree?

Moskitto
28th October 2001, 15:41
yeah certainly where i live it is. People don't see themselves as being connected in any way with the Scottish, Welsh or Irish. And we have a lot of Scottish people living here (strange since i'm about 50 miles north of London) and the English people don't really feel the same as the Scotish people so make a distiction.

Son of Scargill
5th November 2001, 19:45
Well I'm half English,Irish,and spent most of my childhood moving around the world as my father was a Brit soldier.Brought up as english,but don't feel much affinity with the place of my birth.Big interest in Irish republicanism 'cos of abuse you'd recieve if you admitted
any Irish ancestry whilst Iwas in school.

Son of Scargill
6th November 2001, 08:45
Does anyone think that the Republican Cause,although the most important issue in Eire,may have adversely affected the growth of socialist/communist issues in both the north and south?

celticsocialist
8th November 2001, 00:57
Scargill, there is no doubt about it. Certainly in the north there are only 2 types of political party, either orange or green and they rely on the one policy.
However I beleive Ireland is a socialist hotbed just waiting for the right time.
When Eire is united socialism will start to take over from republicanism.
Tiocfaidh ar la

kevolution
11th November 2001, 20:05
Celtic i used to belive that maxim, "a united ireland is necessary fro socialism to be built" but I have grown to believe that this is not true. If Britain were to pull out of the north tomorrow, i can envisage a bosnian style civil war, reminscant of the tit for tat sectarian killings of the mid 70's. Now that we have at least relative peace here, we must build socialism in both working classes and bring them together to realise their own common class interest.
This obviously will not be easy given the orange/green sectarian nature of northern politics. BUT my comrades in Socialist Youth are out there now, showing young people that there is an alternative to this, ie socialism. We have recieved a positive response thus far, but mainly from the protestant middle class, but hopefully when the assembly is more steady, people will start to realise that the 'socilaism' preached by Sinn Fein and the Progressive Unionist Party is a facade, and that they will (and are already, given SF's towing of the Blairite line as regards PPP and PFI, and the market diktats) betray the working classes on both sides. For example, after the closure of a hospital in Fermanagh (i think) SF health minister Barbara de Brun said "theres nothing we can do" she didnt fight the closure, but she did make sure that everyone got their P45's in both English and Gaelic. Oh how socialist of her. I will post more on this later, but now I must eat.
In the words of the great James Connolly...
"If you remove the English army, and hoist the green flag, unless you you set about establishing a socialist republic, all your efforts will have been in vain"

Anonymous
14th December 2001, 21:04
All this Trotskyite Anti-Republican rhetoric is well and good. But who is doing all the work for the Irish urban working class? SF. Granted your party (you are in the socialist party) are doing your bit, but your efforts are hardly comparable. You are right to be critical of SF leadership I am myself and I'm an SF member, but on the ground SF are doing great work. All this "revolution is around the corner" crap will get us nowhere. People have enough sense to see that conservative rule in Ireland is safe (regrettably) and that it is about fighting on an issue by issue basis. I used to think anyone who called themselves a Socialist was a good guy but I've come to realise that many "Socialists" are just narrow minded bastards who love throwing the label Fascist around at anyone who doesn't fit into their idea of a utopia. The same people would probably criticise Castro's Cuba far more than the US despite the former being the only nation with a system resembling Socialism in power. The group I refer to is mainly the SWP, who although I do sometimes go to meetings arranged by them, really make me uncomfortable. I may be a Socialist but I don't have blind faith in literature written hundreds of years ago. The here and now is more important than the past and future. People want a party who will help them in everyday issues, that party so far is SF. Yes there is a conservative element, but they are the best party around. They more than likely will sell out at some point in the future but they haven't yet.

Kez
15th December 2001, 12:02
Long live the IRA,
the IRA have been scrwed up the ass for years, now it is their time to screw the british warmongers, and smash em up

LONG LIVE THE IDEA OF A UNITED IRELAND
comrade kamo

Conghaileach
18th December 2001, 21:01
Sorry, but I dont consider Sinn Féin to be a republican party, not any longer. To me, they're a constitutional nationalist party like the SDLP. Gerry Adams once rang the bell at the New York Stock Exchange - just goes to show how he feels about the working class.

Anyway, the main problem right now among Republican Socialists is that you'd get a majority vote across the entire island for a united Ireland, but for a Socialist Republic you'd get maybe 30%. Ireland will most likely be united as a capitalist state, and continue to be screwed over by the US under the term "the Celtic Tiger." Also, with the Free State government becoming more and more Thatcher-like, many people feel that reuniting Ireland is only the first step in achieveing independence.

Freiheit
19th December 2001, 04:23
i totally disagree with the actions of the ira, and they must be punished.
but i support an independent northern ireland.
(the english left - almost - every colony, why cant they lieve nothern ireland?

Conghaileach
19th December 2001, 18:54
There's a group in Ireland called the Irish Republican Socialist Party. The groups is made of Catholics, Protestants, Atheists, Liberals, Workers, Southerners, Northerners, Union workers and God knows what else.

They wouldn't be a party who wave the green. In fact, most believe that the tricolor should be replaced with the Starry Plough.

CommieBastard
19th December 2001, 19:19
Freiheit, there is one important reason why the brit govt. left other colonies but not the 'colony' of NI. It is very simply because the majority of people in NI dont want independance, and in fact consider themselves more staunchly british than any other brit (theres none so british as the brtitish abraod).

Leaving NI would lead to immense bloodshed for innocent people.
There's just no way any brit govt. would do it, they would be unelectable for years/...

peaccenicked
22nd December 2001, 15:41
our day will come! chugagh ar la

Moskitto
22nd December 2001, 16:32
There's a book from Larkin Publications which makes the case that Irish independence would trigger a socialist revolution in both the UK and Ireland.

Marx also had the same theory.

Conghaileach
22nd December 2001, 22:10
I'd love to see it happen, Moskitto.

And it's 'Tiocfaidh ár la.' I often see the quote misspelled on walls where I live - kind of an annoying proof that the British pretty much wiped out a good deal of our country's culture.

Freiheit
22nd December 2001, 22:34
CommieBastard, i didnt know that.
you dont hear stuff like that in the
news.

The Rapparee
31st January 2002, 14:09
Like James Connolly wanted the whole of Ireland can be united under Socialism but violence must take place where a unjust ruler keeps holding on to the past of colonism and empire.

Supermodel
31st January 2002, 15:52
Sorry guys, there is absolutely no basis for desiring a united Ireland other than it's a contiguous piece of real estate. The people of the North and the people of the Republic have nothing,nada,zip,zilch,zero in common with each other. The Northern Irish Tribe has more in common with the Haitians than the Irish republicans.

If anyone can articulate a rational argument why the two should be joined, I've never heard one.

The Republic of Ireland is not and never has been a free republic. It is governed by the Roman Catholic Church, the most corrupt and despicable constructs in all of human history.

Hate Britain all you want, the hatred between north and south in Ireland is the most bitter you will find this side of Palestine. It is not, and never was, about London.

The Rapparee
1st February 2002, 15:53
The Catholic Church has an influence yes but it has no say in the Government and of cause its not a true Republic because its not Communist. Leave the Church out of it its not about religion but against the bloody facist Unionists and British who just happen to have a different denomination.
Cromwell and many anothers have killed not because we are Catholics but because we resisted their invasions and wanted to stay Irish. Too many people think it is about religion it is not. Its about what the bloody British did to our fore fathers and the fact that Ulster was ours before the Brits knicked it. Ireland will nver be Irelna until it is a United Ireland minus the Unionists and Brtish Army.
Only if your a true Irishman will you understand the Irish problem.

(Edited by The Rapparee at 4:56 pm on Feb. 1, 2002)

Supermodel
1st February 2002, 18:38
Raparee, you're kidding, it's not about religion? And the Catholic church does not run the south, when it runs the schools, the hospitals, and sets reproductive policy?

Let's talk Che here for a minute. What "People" are you republicans fighting for? Do you aim to free the people of NI from opression? Because the Republic is the oppressor, not England. Do you fight for the poor people of the Republic? What, they'll be so much happier and better off when a million Protestants join their country?

Let's get one thing straight. The IRA in all its many forms and disguizes has never told the truth about its true agenda. Why, because it needs support from the US and the US would never understand or accept the true agenda. Truth be told, the common man of Ireland would not support the true agenda of the IRA if it were clearly stated.

You, my dear countryman, and your buddies, have driven Ireland straight into the Third World. Thanks so much. Che would have laughed in your face.

peaccenicked
1st February 2002, 20:11
Goodbye to Catholic Ireland:
How the Irish Lost the Civilization They Created
(Templegate Publishers, $19.95)
by Mary Kenny
Reviewed by Mark Lombard
Catholic News Service

It has been understood for generations that, alone among English-speaking lands, Ireland has been primarily Catholic, and that the Republic of Ireland became an independent nation because she was Catholic.

Yet in a work that weaves anecdotes, statistics, news reports from general and Catholic press sources, historical analyses and personal experience, writer and journalist Mary Kenny sews together a tapestry that portrays a fluid social history of a nation growing and a faith fraying.

Goodbye to Catholic Ireland: How the Irish Lost the Civilization They Created, initially published in the United Kingdom in 1997 with the first U.S. edition updated and released in late October, is not an attack on the church but a compelling analysis of the modern Irish Catholic experience.
While the intermingling of fact and hearsay can be a suspect mixture in a historical examination, Kenny, 20 years a columnist for London's Sunday Telegraph, successfully offers insight, humor, frankness and pathos in chronicling the causes behind consequences of this shift.

In doing so, she also challenges and debunks the hackneyed stereotypical view of Irish Catholicism, in which insular priests ruled with an iron fist over the superstitious, passive and gullible faithful.

The chronological account of Catholic Ireland moves from the late 19th - and early 20th - century growth in Europe of nationalism and radicalism, through the Irish cultural renaissance, the "sacramental" Easter Rising of 1916, the partition of Ireland and the creation of the confessional constitutional state. It examines the church's role in state censorship from the late 1920s to the 1960s, in Irish neutrality and isolationalism during the Second World War, and in wrestling with issues of depopulation, emigration and contraception.

With the coming of the "liberal dawn" of the 1960s, Kenny sees old Ireland fading away and the Irish church beginning its decline from its position as "the most dominant continuous influence in Irish life."

Kenny is not a detached observer. She confesses that she was part of a "group of young Irish feminists" that in 1971 defiantly and publicly brought contraceptives from the North into the Irish Republic.

She suggests Pope Paul VI's encyclical Humanae Vitae split Catholic Ireland into conservative and liberal camps, raised the issue of - and the subsequent opposition to - "the archaic Irish law" banning barrier methods of contraception, and propelled the foundation of an anti-clerical women's liberation movement.

The conflict in Northern Ireland, argues the author, also served to undermine the place of the Catholic Church in the republic, which itself became the target of charges of being a theocracy.

The rise of the country's boom economy, known as "the Celtic Tiger," has become yet another force she points to as radically changing the cultural landscape and challenging the faith.
Kenny contends that the authority of the Catholic Church, already weakened by the "liberalization of society - indeed the sexualization of society" - and the precipitous drop in vocations and Mass attendance, was damaged, potentially irreversibly, by a series of reports in the 1990's of "horrific and pitiful cases of sex charges against Catholic priests."

"The very concept of 'Catholic Ireland' was, by the end of the century, gone" she writes. "The very phrase 'Catholic Ireland' was deemed repulsive, and offensively sectarian."

Despite her criticism, Kenny, who seems in this sobering book to be very much an insider in mourning, holds out hope for a resurgent Catholicism in Ireland.

Yet after reading her analysis, it is difficult to see on what basis that hope is founded.

Lombard is senior business officer of Catholic News Service.

Supermodel
1st February 2002, 20:20
Peace, you made my point exactly. For I, too, in my youth made sure I brought contraceptives to pass to my colleagues when I travelled to the Irish Republic.

Lack of reproductive freedom=repression of women
Repression of women=third world thinking
Third world thinking=massive government handouts
massive government handouts=more work for consultants
more work for consultants=more trips to Dublin with a suitcase full of condoms....

Wait, I used to have a point.....

Anonymous
10th March 2002, 14:46
Supermodel,
The Catholic Church does have more of a say in Ireland than I would like. Yes in the past it was practically the governing force in Ireland but It's role though more influential than I would like is not as influential as it was. I must admit if it was not thanks to a brilliant priest I know I may not be alive now due to my former suicidal tendencies.

Condoms are available now in practically any chemist shop or public jacks in this country. Unionism is the most conservative force in Ireland, it stands for an old protestant ascendancy that would keep civil liberties down. That believe nationalists are inferior and must be opressed. The only viable way for our country to be run is as one single entity, partition hinders the effective running of Ireland. At least this way there might be an outside chance of having socialism in Ireland in about 100 years time for a year or two. But at this moment we are too bogged down in a mé féin- Pro US mentality. There will never be revolution, people don't want it, what they do want is issue by issue change, to aid their ways of life. *

BOZG
10th March 2002, 15:17
I would rather see an Independent Northern Ireland as terrorism will still cripple the North even if a United Ireland is gained. The Loyalists will start bombing the Republic just as the IRA have Britain. It would be better if both sides were united and had their own parliament, free from Irish or British rule.

And as for the Catholic Church in Ireland, until 1972 they bascially controlled the Government.

tyronelad
11th March 2002, 22:32
surely the recent abortion results show the catholic church is losing its grip on the irish people.
surely the lack of irish men joining the priesthood is evidence of the lack of support (as is the pioneers- a dying organisation)
drinking is increasing, church going is decreasing, and to be frank, the irish people could not give two hoots about pope JP or the church. sure parts of the irish constitution were riddled with catholic ideals, but when it was written, the average irish worker would had fallen to the ground if a priest asked them to (my parents recall fear of breaking lent due to the priests horror stories)

secondly, an independant ulster is mentioned in the book 'the commitee'- it suggests how a group of loyalist paras. businessmen, bankers RUC/UDR and politicans came together to attacl the natioanlist community with the intention of an independant ulster. these ppl planned to have trade links with israel, and spread the idea, which appeared on many side streets:

"there is no irish nationalist areas of ulster. only areas temporarly occupied by irish nationalists"

david trimble showed power is much more important to him than moving forward with his balant remarks about the south being sectarian. Orange marchs take place in the republic on an annual basis in the south- the only different is the marchers don't look like they have a poker up thier ass- they enjoy themselves, have a laugh. Although gaelic football is the national sport of ireland, rubgy is beginning to pick up (the local side whee i live has had a dramtic increase in catholic players- the starting u-16 side was all catholic)

eliphismatis
19th May 2002, 14:56
Speaking as an Irish Nationalist and Republican living in the annexed 6 counties, the attainment of a free united Ireland is crucial. Some people who have not been affected by the situation in the North, may not understand the general repressive regime of British imperealisim. Certainly the rights of Catholics in the British held state have improved dramatically since the 60's - upto the point where they have equal rights with their fellow christians.

Historically speaking it is not at all surprising that the working class Irish population in the North distrust their British rulers. The re-emergence of the IRA in the 1960's is indicative of this desparation and grievance that the Irish held.

Some may say 'what are you complaining about?', when we have a democratic system of self rule from Stormont including Nationalists and Republicans. 'Why do you want to upset it all by arguing for a united Ireland?. After all there is alot more to Celtic and Irish heritage than who is your Prime Minister. People in the north are certainly free to be IRISH.

The answer is simple - the Irish are being allowed to practice their culture by the British/Unionist establishment. Many Nationalists have a strong feeling for self-determination - to forge out their own futures - and not to be told what they can o cannot do. What does the British establishment know what is best for the Irish population - perhaps they thought internment was best, or a shoot to kill policy, or the murder of the Irish language in the 17th century.

The fact is that Tony Blair is not Irish, neither was Maggie Thatcher or Heath or Gladstone. How the earlier British governments saw the North was an opportunity - a wealth of Conservative votes when General Elections came about. Or for military purposes in the 2nd World war (ports and air-fields etc.).

Every British Establishment has not cared about the Irish Nationalists - why, because they were insignificant. They even gerrymandered the constituencies to meake the Nationalist vote even more insignificant. They only cared about the Unionist majority and the strategic importance for the defence of main land Britain. NO ONE LIKES BEING USED/ABUSED, ESPECIALLY IF YOU BEING USED AS A SHEILD.

I believe alot of nationalists/republicans feel this way - that their country has been taken advantage of. The alternative is to have the Irish ruling the Irish - to look after their future and their past.

honest intellectual
19th May 2002, 21:41
Supermodel, it isn't the fifties any more, ya know. I can tell you with certainty that Ireland is not governed by the Catholic Church.