Colleagues and Ideology

[Springmeester]

I was wondering how many of you comrades have practical experience, as a proletarian, with class-struggle at (for instance) factories, construction sites, office buildings, supermarkets where you work. Did you try to put into practice your ideology and how did your colleague's react to it?

What were things you did right and what were things you did wrong.

I would also like to know if you got support from your union, party or other type of organisation.

[Forward Union]

Generally speaking, if you live in the post-industrial west, you are more likely to have a post-industrial job.

Due to that, and many other things, there have be next to no attempts at factory occupations for a very long time. There have been wildcat strikes, for example in, Gate Gourmet (http://www.schnews.org.uk/archive/news510.htm) where the anarchist organisations and Socialist parties supported the workers at heathrow.


What were things you did right and what were things you did wrong.

Well, if you get a job, and instantly propose militant action, you won't get very far. At the moment, where I live, the postal centre is to be closed down, because it's cheaper (though less efficient) to transport all our towns mail to Swindon, and then back to here to Reading, essentially fucking over all the workers here. I plan on getting a job at this postal centre, today actually, partly for the money, and partly so I can have a say in how we resist the closure.

Im not going to go there and tell them to stop working with our MP (who has been supportive) and drop out of the Trade union to form an anarchist collective. Im going to go along with them, and let them make the mistakes themselves. We already know that reformism, and working through parliament doesn't achieve anything, but they dont. And preaching to them means nothing without them seeing it for themselves.

I will however, suggest doubts I have about the process, and when all fails, propose more direct action.

This is how I would go about "putting my ideology into practice" in one instance.

[Springmeester]

Im not going to go there and tell them to stop working with our MP (who has been supportive) and drop out of the Trade union to form an anarchist collective. Im going to go along with them, and let them make the mistakes themselves. We already know that reformism, and working through parliament doesn't achieve anything, but they dont. And preaching to them means nothing without them seeing it for themselves.

Why not? You are going to lose your job anyway? If all the workers are being fucked over and you have the theoretical knowledge to organize and fight back then why not do so? It seems to me like you and your colleagues have got nothing to lose anymore. And I don't think you should be preaching to them but you could help them with their fight against the closure of the postal centre with direct action. You should use your knowledge of class-struggle for their benefit.


Im going to go along with them, and let them make the mistakes themselves.

Because this sounds to me like the easy way out. I don't want to offend you and I am indeed not familiar with the entire situation but please give it some thought if you will.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 11:06 am
Why not? You are going to lose your job anyway? If all the workers are being fucked over and you have the theoretical knowledge to organize and fight back then why not do so?
Because it will alienate you from everybody else. Proposing immediate militant action will seem like an unreasonable proposal considering the fact that they truly believe that working through parliament will work.

If all you can do is assert otherwise, baring in mind that you are the strange new guy who has dropped in, then you will find yourself with a lack of credibility. And your politics wil become a novelty.


you could help them with their fight against the closure of the postal centre with direct action. You should use your knowledge of class-struggle for their benefit.

I intend to, but at the moment, direct action is not on the cards. To propose it would give the appearance that; I simply want a fight, for the sake of a fight, and have more concern for my ideological requirements than the immediate campaign (whetehr that's the case or not). I am a lot younger than the rest of the postal workers, and if called out as an Anarchist too soon, will have no crediblity to stand on. Simply because of the judgements made about people who carry that tag.


Because this sounds to me like the easy way out. I don't want to offend you and I am indeed not familiar with the entire situation but please give it some thought if you will.

No offence taken mate, I enjoy this kind of sensible debate... but understand, I'm not planning on sitting back and watching it all fall apart. Then saying "I told you so"

Pre-empting state violence by starting the fight yourself immediately closes and dramatically reduces your potential platform of support. It's also a short term solution, to a long term problem. Building up a network/union/etc however, to the extent that it becomes a threat, and then watching the state crack down, always leads to greater popular support.

After the legal, fluffy, process doesn't work, the movement (local or not) hit's a barrier, a barrier between legality and, essentially, victory (though victory is of course, far from inevitable). It either gives up to the legal process, or takes things further, and I would define this as revolutionary action. Someone has to be there to propose that step, someone who has credibility, trust, and clear dedication to the process. Not an ideological crusader who paradroped in.

[Springmeester]

I see your point and I deal with the same problems.
I'm young, I'm a leftist radical etc.
But how do you proceed from there?

I talk a lot with my collegues about union policy, political issues and workers rights (and although I don't bring it up myself, I do always try to lengthen such discussions), the only question is: what more can you really do?

[gilhyle]

Surely there is a middle road somewhere between 'going along' and telling them to form an anarchist collective !

I dont say its easy, but people can be quite open to arguments to move the struggle up a level, not rely solely on the MP, do something to make people see how serious the workers are...etc

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 11:48 am
I see your point and I deal with the same problems.
I'm young, I'm a leftist radical etc.
But how do you proceed from there?

Depends on your situation. How young are you? you are old enough to get a job, so the best thing to do would be pick it instances of exploitation in your workplace that people are concerned with, and try and challenge it.

Also, there will be things in your community that people oppose. Most people take part in anti-capitalist action, everytime they steal from work, pretend to be sick, key their bosses car etc. It's normally just a matter of getting these people together in an organised fashion and doing something more meaningful.

Getting something going in your community is easy.


the only question is: what more can you really do?

again it depends on whats going on around you, in your community. If there is already an anarchist group operating locally, try and get in contact and join.

[Springmeester]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 11:52 am
Surely there is a middle road somewhere between 'going along' and telling them to form an anarchist collective !

I dont say its easy, but people can be quite open to arguments to move the struggle up a level, not rely solely on the MP, do something to make people see how serious the workers are...etc
I agree. First step could be handing out flyers to the public, notifying them of the situation at the postal centre. This small step is easy to take and already asks for a simple form of organisation: who writes the texts, who copys it, who want to join in handing them out, etc.

[Springmeester]

Depends on your situation. How young are you? you are old enough to get a job, so the best thing to do would be pick it instances of exploitation in your workplace that people are concerned with, and try and challenge it.

I'm a bit older then you. I'm 22 y/o, I work as a carpenter. Even though these direct forms of class-struggle are really hard (because they are so personal) I do consider them of the highest value for any worker and/or revolutionary.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 11:52 am
Surely there is a middle road somewhere between 'going along' and telling them to form an anarchist collective !

Well, I would say that the 'middle road' option, for someone like me, who has only just entered the struggle, some time after it has started, is roughly what I outlined above. That is; go along with the fluffy process, while making awear the limitations of such a process, and laying the groundwork for the proposition of Direct action. Though every situation should be approached differently.

When your colleagues say something like 'our MP will do a speak in parliament on the xth of xember' I would respond positively; speaking about how nice it is to have the MPs support, but at the same time express concerns about the nature of the problem, and the power companies have over local government on matters of privatisation. I would also support/propose, fluffy action, so long as everyone is awear of the limitations.

I can actually think of a specific, and fitting example. In which local people in Slough voted in the Libdems (I think it was the lib dems) almost entirely based on the hope that they would stop the building of an incinerator, that had been campaigned against. Unfortunately when they got to power they realised that, if they banned the company from building it, they were liable to be sued millions. Local council cannot stand up to the corporations that clearly run our society.

Most people agree, that soicety is bias toward the large corporations, especially postal workers whos jobs are on the line due to privatisation. I think that after the campaign starts to cruble, and it will, along the legal route. People will feel inspired by the idea of fresh, radical, direct action, from the dedicated members with an in depth and critical understanding of the situation.

But you need to play the game properly.

[gilhyle]

I agree its a delicate business, and I dont know the details of the situation (which is critical to making an effective intervention) but my own experience is that when things go wrong its not the person who then argues for direct action who gains the ear of those eager to fix the situation, but the person who has PREVIOUSLY suggested that the 'support the MP' couse is inadequate (granted as long as he/she hasnt alienated everyone in the process).

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 11:56 am
I agree. First step could be handing out flyers to the public, notifying them of the situation at the postal centre. This small step is easy to take and already asks for a simple form of organisation: who writes the texts, who copys it, who want to join in handing them out, etc.
Well, the postal workers had a stand set up in town. I signed their petition, and bought some mail stickers. They are basically little yellow stickers, a little bigger than stamps that you put on your envelopes, ensuring that they do not go via the Swindon postal centre.

In fact, here is a photo of some.
http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/7177/mailxs3.gif
CWU (http://www.cwuse5.org.uk/)

We also had a stand on that same day, with the banner "Workers solidarity" and pleanty of red and black symbolism, which they took to quite well.

[Springmeester]

Originally posted by Love Underground+December 16, 2006 12:24 pm--> (Love Underground @ December 16, 2006 12:24 pm)
[email protected] 16, 2006 11:56 am
I agree. First step could be handing out flyers to the public, notifying them of the situation at the postal centre. This small step is easy to take and already asks for a simple form of organisation: who writes the texts, who copys it, who want to join in handing them out, etc.
Well, the postal workers had a stand set up in town. I signed their petition, and bought some mail stickers. They are basically little yellow stickers, a little bigger than stamps that you put on your envelopes, ensuring that they do not go via the Swindon postal centre.

In fact, here is a photo of some.
http://img282.imageshack.us/img282/7177/mailxs3.gif
CWU (http://www.cwuse5.org.uk/)

We also had a stand on that same day, with the banner "Workers solidarity" and pleanty of red and black symbolism, which they took to quite well. [/b]
Good words I hear. Workers solidarity, red & black. Is it class-instinct? ;)

[Chocobo]

I've had two jobs (Sort of young, 16) and I will say that neither of them I put any of my ideals in. The first job I had was at Six Flags Corporate Adventure. The employees are payed extremly unfair wages for the amount of time they work, conditions are actually quite bad (Extremly hot uniform,a constant bickering from your set area supervisor to "stop sitting" and such. An example of this is while unloading a truck with all these prize bags (Which can be quite heavy by the way), the metal loader thing fell out and hit my knee, cutting it very deep and I was bleeding quite intensly. So what do they do? They make me work in the back and stock prizes, without letting me go to the first AID!) and a majority of the workers who were attempting to make a living told me how they had to work three jobs because this job's weekly pay was diminished almost instantaneously. So yah, Six Flags is bullshit. I attempted, so to say, to get the workers together to ask for higher wages. Nobody really cared though, and the people who actually took my "demands" serious were typical teenage kids who weren't really going to do anything. So I stole abot 600 dollars from there, got caught, fired, and charged with Grand Larseny. Thank you Six Flags!

And the other job I had was at a Sunoco Gas Station (Even more degrading). Surprisingly though, the wages here were good. I worked weekends, for 8 hours a day (No breaks) but I made 120 dollars a week for 2 days a week. The mechanics were making much better wages then the gas attendents (Which is understandable in the capitalist society) but they were also very good, generally reaching above 300 for a 6 day work week. So I didn't protest there :mellow:

And love underground, very sensible decision making on your part, good job!

[Rawthentic]

Getting something going in your community is easy.
I need your help then. I'm 16, in high school, no job, maybe one comrade.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2006 04:43 am
I need your help then. I'm 16, in high school, no job, maybe one comrade.
http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...entry1292231177 (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=ST&f=7&t=60305&st=0#entry1292231177)