Discussions from restriction thread

[chimx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2006 07:53 pm
Just because he has a hard on for "democracy" doesn't mean he's a revolutionary. (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?act=Search&nav=au&CODE=show&searchid=7da651a6cfeb5b3957d752106ac34d73&search_in=posts&result_type=posts)
The offending comment was this:


Additionally, I'd rather have the free capitalist society we live in today than the brutal totalitarianism that Mao, Stalin, etc. achieved any day of the week.

I can guarantee you that plenty of "revolutionary" members of this forum would prefer to live in a free-market driven capitalist societies than live with stalinist or maoist despotism, myself included. That should in no way be construed as having a moral perogative for capitalist society over that of communism, but simply that Marxism-Leninism is held by many to be a vile distortion of true communist aspirations, and that this distortion is ultimately more harmful to working peoples than capitalism itself.

Please unrestrict Harris0. You are passing judgement on him far too quickly.

[Jazzratt]

He'd rather have some neo-liberal conservative gorvernment democratically elected than a socialist one instated by revolution. He also supports the draft. He also trolls threads that offer serious discussion about Marxist-Leninist leaders.

I am still very much behind his restriction.

[chimx]

did he ever say that? he said he would rather have a neo-liberal democratic government that an authoritarian government like that of stalin or mao. who could fucking blame him? how many millions of people died from either agricultural mismanagment and political terrorism in those despotic regimes?? You know what is better than capitalism? communism. You know what is better than communism? not being dead.

As far as the revolutionary character of liberal democracys, please refer to Karl Marx's La Liberte Speech (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1872/09/08.htm) of 1872, in which he fully advocates the use of democratic institutions if possible.

Define trolling a thread? Pointing out the wretched actions of socialist leaders in a thread about those socialist leaders is always relavent to the discussion. If the poster doesn't like it, he can request a mod to split the thread so that discussion can continue.

While I'm not into the draft, I don't recall him talking about it, and also don't see how that issue by itself warrants restriction.

[LSD]

OK, since I'm the one who restricted harris, let me clear something up here.

He was not restriced for the above comment. In fact I happen to agree with that sentiment.

No, Harris was restricted for supporting the draft (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=59673&st=0?entry1292225580).

I don't care how "tactical" you think such support is, a reinstatement of the draft would mean an increase in the US military and the forcible enslavement of thousands if not millions of working class Americans.

Obviously the soem members of the bourgeois US Democratic party support such a measure 'cause they hold their political agenda above the interests of the working class. But this is not a liberal board!

[chimx]

Well I am glad to hear that this was the reason for his restriction and not the comment above. The comment in question then, i assume is this:


Calling me a dumbass. Not exactly a crushing refutation of my argument.
Why do you think there was so much anti-war sentiment in the 1960's? There was a draft.
Why do you think kids our age are so apathetic about the war? There is no draft.
Bottom line: today...We wouldn't be fighting wars of choice if there was a draft.

I think his restriction should be noted that he sided with the idea of a draft, not because he is morally or ideologically interested in the draft per se, but the effect a draft would have on the collective conscious of american citizens.

In the same sense, I know people who voted for George Bush because they erroneously feel that this would foster greater class conciousness by increasing social divisions.

I disagree with both sentiments, but I think the intentions behind them are noble, however misguided they might be. That said, if Harris0 changes his stance on the reinstallment of the draft, would he be unrestricted?

[LSD]

That would have to be up to the CC, but for my part I would say yes -- assuming that he does not make other reactionary comments in the interim (which, given the general tenor of his posts seems likely).

And, for the record, the specific comment that motivated me was this one:

Originally posted by Harris0
I support a reinstatement of the draft (with no rich kid college defferments), for exactly the reason Congressmen Rangel proposed this measure. It would force young rich kids to serve, and it would keep us out of silly wars like Iraq

[Cryotank Screams]

He also said that he would rather a fascist dictator win through election and be in power, than have a Communist/Socialist leader be in power, with no election.

[LSD]

Originally posted by me+--> (me)assuming that he does not make other reactionary comments in the interim (which, given the general tenor of his posts seems likely).[/b]


Harris0
He also said that he would rather a fascist dictator win through election and be in power, than have a Communist/Socialist leader be in power, with no election.

:rolleyes: See what I mean?

[apathy maybe]

redstar2000 supported consciption ... I hardly see him being restricted.


His argument was similar to this person's.

[chimx]

if that is the case, i move we restrict him until he recovers from his stroke and is able to defend his stance!

[Aeturnal Narcosis]

.... so anyway, it begs the question: why the fuck am i still restricted. i have proven that i am as communist as every person in the cc. my socialised free market theory has proven itself communist, at least as a means of establishing communism (which is based on fair distribution), and yet i am still restricted. this is getting retarded.

[harris0]

Well I've just gotten back from my two day suspension. Anarchist Tensions said this is the reason I was banned:
"

Could you explain to me why I have been restricted?



You lost a vote 15/25 for this comment:


QUOTE (You)
Additionally, I'd rather have the free capitalist society we live in today than the brutal totalitarianism that Mao, Stalin, etc. achieved any day of the week. [/quote]


I don't necessarily agree with it, but it was voted on by our administrative forum, and that's the way it is."

If the draft comment really is why I'm restricted, I guess I'll have to stay that way. I am opposed to the poverty draft that we have at present, and would support a draft without rich kid defferments. I don't also don't think we'd be fighting silly wars like Iraq if there was a general draft in place.

EDIT: But beyond that...who are you guys to say what the "correct" leftist position on the draft...let alone anything

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 08:04 pm
EDIT: But beyond that...who are you guys to say what the "correct" leftist position on the draft...let alone anything
Leftists.

[bezdomni]

If the draft comment really is why I'm restricted, I guess I'll have to stay that way. I am opposed to the poverty draft that we have at present, and would support a draft without rich kid defferments. I don't also don't think we'd be fighting silly wars like Iraq if there was a general draft in place.

There is no draft at the moment, and the state forcing people to join the military is a little...I dunno...TOTALITARIAN.

Why do you live the bourgeois state so much? Do you really trust the bourgeois politicians to put the interests of the working class above their own material interests? The ruling class loves war, because they get to expand their economic empire. The wars are started by the rich and fought by the poor. Even if there is no "rich kid deferrment", the majority of people forced to join the military will be poor, working-class americans becase there are simply more poor people in the United States than rich people!

Anyway, do you really think George Bush's kids will ever fight in Iraq?

The problem with your support of the draft is that you support an action of the bourgeois state against the working class (ie, forcing them to fight imperialist wars). And you are fooling yourself if you think a draft would keep the US out of places like Iraq. It would give them more power and more resources. Hell, they'd probably invade Iran.

[The Feral Underclass]

For the last time, can you stop having political discussions in this thread. If you want to carry it on, split the topic.

[harris0]

If a Catholic Liberation Theologist was opposed to abortion, would they be restricted?

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2006 05:01 pm
If a Catholic Liberation Theologist was opposed to abortion, would they be restricted?
Yes.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2006 10:01 am
If a Catholic Liberation Theologist was opposed to abortion, would they be restricted?
Yes because thats prolife and this board opposes those that are against the women's choice.

[Intellectual47]

But isn't abortion murder? Maybe it would be a better idea to split this from this thread.

[C_Rasmussen]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2006 01:53 pm
But isn't abortion murder? Maybe it would be a better idea to split this from this thread.
According to the Christian faith its murder.

[Aeturnal Narcosis]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2006 07:53 pm
But isn't abortion murder? Maybe it would be a better idea to split this from this thread.
TAT... i apologise for taking this to actual discussion, but...

you retards talk about the sanctity of life when it comes to an UNBORN fetus, but couldn't think two more seconds of it when you kill a mosquito or a fly, or a leopard for a nice fur jacket.

if life is all that important to you morons, then how the fuck can you support health research? seems to me, a tumor and a virus is a living thing.

and what's more... how the fuck can you support ANY war? war destroys life, and not just unborn life, but actually living people. humans with families and jobs and hopes and wants.

this whole anti abortion bullshit.... all it really is... the conservatives want the fetus to be born into a living baby so they can raise it to be a dead soldier.

[JKP]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 08:34 pm


There is no draft at the moment, and the state forcing people to join the military is a little...I dunno...TOTALITARIAN.

Just like how Lenin and the Soviet Union had conscription. How come I don't see Leninists getting restricted for that?

[colonelguppy]

oh noes! differing opinions!

[Publius]

I really cannot understand how it's productive to restrict certain members for such trifling 'infractions'. Yes, yes, we know, "it's your forum", whatever. It's still stupid.

Say whatshisface does support the draft. First of all, wouldn't the reasonable thing be to discuss/debate it? Wasn't Karl Marx's favorite epigram 'do omnibus disputandum', 'everything must be doubted'? 'Doubt everything'? 'Question everything'? Is the draft inimical to Leftism, always? I don't know. But you don't either. And no matter how many times the cabal takes a vote, you still won't know.

So that makes you...

[Qwerty Dvorak]

I really cannot understand how it's productive to restrict certain members for such trifling 'infractions'. Yes, yes, we know, "it's your forum", whatever. It's still stupid.
Agreed. Private property rights and the consequential ability of a private website's administration to restrict at will are both absolutely moronic concepts.

[Publius]

Agreed. Private property rights and the consequential ability of a private website's administration to restrict at will are both absolutely moronic concepts.

I agree, it is quite consequential.

:lol: