African Socialism

[Ander]

I've read about this briefly on Wikipedia but it wasn't specific enough. What is it exactly and how does it work?

[Q]

I just read it aswell: sounds mostly like a nationalist reaction on the independance.

This however, does sound interesting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jamahiriya) (watch the youtube video aswell).

[cumbia]

Sounds like authotarianism under a eloquent veil.

[Dimentio]

I actually do think that technocracy could work rather well in Africa, given the vastness of Sahara and the resources available there. But of course, the African ethnic composition is even more diverse than that in Europe, so that is a severe problem.

[Q]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2006 03:12 pm
I actually do think that technocracy could work rather well in Africa, given the vastness of Sahara and the resources available there. But of course, the African ethnic composition is even more diverse than that in Europe, so that is a severe problem.
So, why would a technocracy work? I don't believe in any for of bureaucracy myself.

[Dimentio]

Technocracy is not a bureaucracy, but a government over technology, not people. It is based on moneyless distributionism determined by energy accounting.

Click the link on my sig.

[Q]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2006 05:19 pm
Technocracy is not a bureaucracy, but a government over technology, not people. It is based on moneyless distributionism determined by energy accounting.

Click the link on my sig.
Oh, thought you was talking about this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Technocracy_(bureaucratic)), which is commonly refered to when one talks about technocracy.
But I'll check your link out.

[Dimentio]

About African socialism, is it not the same thing as Arab socialism/Pan-arabism, namely an excuse for an authoritarian government run by the "hero of national liberation" who builds big unnecessary hydro-electric powerplants, renames cities and talk about the traditional non-western big family-household with no class conflicts?

[combat]

Please be a little bit serious. Here is a link to start, that is a Nigerian Trotskyst group:

http://www.socialistnigeria.org/index.php

[Zeruzo]

http://www.marxists.org/subject/africa/index.htm

Is a good resource for African Marxism.

[Dimentio]

That is not African socialism, but trotskyism. You see, African socialism is not marxism-leninism in Africa, but a distinct Pan-African ideology developed post-liberation, which almost all self-declared African presidents said that they adhered to.

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2006 11:56 am
About African socialism, is it not the same thing as Arab socialism/Pan-arabism, namely an excuse for an authoritarian government run by the "hero of national liberation" who builds big unnecessary hydro-electric powerplants, renames cities and talk about the traditional non-western big family-household with no class conflicts?
Why are hydroelectric powerplants unnecessary? Africans don't need electricity?

But yes, "African Socialism" is an ideology usually associated with post-independence leaders people like Julius Nyrere in Tanzania and Kwame Nkrumah, especially Nyrere. These were bourgeois nationalist leaders who did a certain amount to promote national capitalist development by means of heavy state intervention in the economy. Nyrere and Nkrumah are often remembered positively (not by the West, of course), but the potential of this kind of regime has been largely worn out. Class politics are needed for further advances in Africa.

As part of keeping working people in line behind them, these nationalist regimes developed the "African Socialist" ideology which downplayed class struggle - claimed that traditional African societies didn't have class divisions.

Which, of course, they did. Feudalism was part of some parts of Africa - ironically, including the part of Tanzania where Nyrere came from - and of course somebody sold all those slaves to the European traders, y'know.

For a Marxist look at African social history, one place to start is "How Capitalism Underdeveloped Africa" by Walter Rodney.

A past thread with a debate on Africa's supposedly classless past (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=35230)

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by Severian+December 15, 2006 08:51 pm--> (Severian @ December 15, 2006 08:51 pm)
[email protected] 15, 2006 11:56 am
About African socialism, is it not the same thing as Arab socialism/Pan-arabism, namely an excuse for an authoritarian government run by the "hero of national liberation" who builds big unnecessary hydro-electric powerplants, renames cities and talk about the traditional non-western big family-household with no class conflicts?
Why are hydroelectric powerplants unnecessary? Africans don't need electricity?

But yes, "African Socialism" is an ideology usually associated with post-independence leaders people like Julius Nyrere in Tanzania and Kwame Nkrumah, especially Nyrere. These were bourgeois nationalist leaders who did a certain amount to promote national capitalist development by means of heavy state intervention in the economy. Nyrere and Nkrumah are often remembered positively (not by the West, of course), but the potential of this kind of regime has been largely worn out. Class politics are needed for further advances in Africa.

As part of keeping working people in line behind them, these nationalist regimes developed the "African Socialist" ideology which downplayed class struggle - claimed that traditional African societies didn't have class divisions.

Which, of course, they did. Feudalism was part of some parts of Africa - ironically, including the part of Tanzania where Nyrere came from - and of course somebody sold all those slaves to the European traders, y'know.

For a Marxist look at African social history, one place to start is "How Capitalism Underdeveloped Africa" by Walter Rodney. [/b]
No, they are unnecessary in the cases when the rivers are either drying up or moving. They are unnecessary when they are built to honour the leader rather than to the good of the people.

I respect Julius Nyrere, but he could not forespell that the personnel in the bureaucratic departments would be more interesting in benefitting their own tribal affiliations than to serve the state.

[combat]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2006 08:49 pm
That is not African socialism, but trotskyism. You see, African socialism is not marxism-leninism in Africa, but a distinct Pan-African ideology developed post-liberation, which almost all self-declared African presidents said that they adhered to.
So it's left petit bourgeois nationalism , not socialism then.

[Hiero]

Originally posted by Severian+December 16, 2006 07:51 am--> (Severian @ December 16, 2006 07:51 am)
[email protected] 15, 2006 11:56 am
About African socialism, is it not the same thing as Arab socialism/Pan-arabism, namely an excuse for an authoritarian government run by the "hero of national liberation" who builds big unnecessary hydro-electric powerplants, renames cities and talk about the traditional non-western big family-household with no class conflicts?
Why are hydroelectric powerplants unnecessary? Africans don't need electricity?

But yes, "African Socialism" is an ideology usually associated with post-independence leaders people like Julius Nyrere in Tanzania and Kwame Nkrumah, especially Nyrere. These were bourgeois nationalist leaders who did a certain amount to promote national capitalist development by means of heavy state intervention in the economy. Nyrere and Nkrumah are often remembered positively (not by the West, of course), but the potential of this kind of regime has been largely worn out. Class politics are needed for further advances in Africa.

As part of keeping working people in line behind them, these nationalist regimes developed the "African Socialist" ideology which downplayed class struggle - claimed that traditional African societies didn't have class divisions.

Which, of course, they did. Feudalism was part of some parts of Africa - ironically, including the part of Tanzania where Nyrere came from - and of course somebody sold all those slaves to the European traders, y'know.

For a Marxist look at African social history, one place to start is "How Capitalism Underdeveloped Africa" by Walter Rodney.

A past thread with a debate on Africa's supposedly classless past (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=35230) [/b]
I wouldn't really say Kwame was a "African Socialist" in the sense that traditional African society was socialist and the ground work of post liberation society. Kwame was influenced from the scientific socialist movement in Africa. Thoug alot of the nationalist leaders cooperated together. Obviously not a Marxist-Leninist, though he had a good understanding of colonialism and neo-colonialism, wanted to shift Ghana away from the colonialist powers and industries that made Ghana dependent on imperialism.