Stalinist betrayal during Spanish civil war.

[Red Comrade]

http://www.marxist.com/History/spanish_rev...tion_AW_86.html (http://www.marxist.com/History/spanish_revolution_AW_86.html)

[Abiyot]

Hello everybody, I just wanted to raise a few questions about this topic? I believe to talk simply in terms of a "Stalinist" betrayal during the Spanish civil war is some what simplistic. Several factors are important here.

First of all, the context has to be borne in mind. The USSR was surrounded by a ring of hostile states. The French and the British governments of the time followed a consistent policy of appeasing the Fascist regimes and egging them on to attack the USSR. The USSR in terms of supporting the Spanish Republican government had to take all this into account. During the Spanish war, Soviet airforce units and tank units direclty engaged in hostilities against the Spanish fascists and the Nazi and their Italian backers. Towards the last two years of the war, the USSR came very near to direct war against the Fascists, because of their uninterrupted torpedoing of Soviet shipping. Obviously, this led to a process where Soviet assistance began tapering off. But we have to remember that the USSR was the most consistent and greatest backer of the Spanish republic. In fact, it was alone, the only country to do so. Ofcourse none of us I am sure would expect any less, but the constraints and context of the times have to be borne in mind. This brings us a more profound question, what is the precise line between pragmatism and principle for a "Socialist" state when it comes to supporting revolutions abroad? Should principles always override all other considerations, including those of the survival of the social system and regime? This in reality is a very tough choice. Lenin and the coalition government the Bolsheviks were leading, faced the same dilemma when it came to making the Brest-Litovsk agreement with the German imperialists. Are we to condemn Lenin and his supporters for their decision then?

A second aspect, to the notion of the "Stalinist betrayal" of the Spanish republic and the revolution, revolves around the Soviet policy towards the full development of the Spanish revolution and the line followed by the Spanish Communist Party of the time. Many have criticised the conduct of the Soviet government and the Comintern at the time, for retarding the process of the revolution, by insisting that the Left had to work together with the few liberal parties and individuals that existed, the non-implementation of land reform, the refusal to countenance full socialization of the means of production, the suppression of the POUM and the actions against the Anarchist movement. All of these, in hindsight are obviously huge blunders. But remember, hindsight lends us an unfair advantage. The policy of the "United Front" at the time was an obvious necessity to counter the worldwide Fascist threat and it could be argued that Germany and Italy fell to the Fascists mainly because the "Left" (Marxists, Anarchists and the "Socialists"/"Social Democrats") was disunited. In the context of Spain, a "United Front" may have appeared necessary, also in order to numb the sense of threat that might have been felt by the French and English ruling classes, at the emergence of another Workers and peasants state.

Final point I want to mention has to do with the record of Communists and the Communist parties around the World (including the Soviet party) and their role in the Spanish civil war. Communists formed and dominated the International Brigades which played a singularly important role in defending Madrid from Spanish fascists. The International Brigades were the strongest and the best military units that fought on the side of the Spanish workers and peasants. And they were led, formed and 99% of the time made up of Communists. The Spanish Communists also were the most disciplined and effective opponents on the Spaniard Fascists. They formed the Fifth regiment later converted into the Fifth corps, which was the best military unit of the Spanish republic. All these are "facts" one can read up on in any half way decent history of the Spanish civil war. No can or should distort the history and the record of the Communists (from across the World) who paid heavy sacrifices in solidarity with the Spanish workers and peasants of the time.

If we want to talk of betrayal of the Spanish revolution and republic, just answer the following question.

Who was involved and led the military putsch and conspiracy that led to the final surrender to Franco and the defeat and death of tens of thosands of Spanish workers, peasants, communists and anarchists?

I will give you a hint, it was not the Spanish Communists or the Soviet regime at the time.

[Cassius Clay]

Indeed it is just stupid to call the SCW a 'Stalinist betrayal'.

Who provided tens of thousands of grenades, rifles etc etc? Who raised more money than all the other Trade Unions in the world? It was the Soviet Trade Unions.

The below is from a British veteran who was actually there in a talk he gave in 1996. Note the part where he points out that if your going to fight Fascism you actually fight Fascism. Not sit around playing football which was what the Anarchists did.

''Another of Loach's slanders is as to the role of the Soviet Union The Soviet Union wanted peace. For a short time, therefore, they went along with non-intervention until they saw the reality of this 'non-intervention' whereupon they decided they had a responsibility towards the democratic, peace-loving people of Spain. They sent help in the form of arms and food, and they gave every possible help to the Spanish people.

What was the role of the Soviet people who went to Spain? Ken Loach says they were murderers acting under Stalin's instructions. Well, I got given a Soviet anti-tank gun. A Soviet instructor showed us what to do with it. We were given Soviet rifles and he instructed us how to use them. While the German planes which were involved in supporting Franco were piloted by German pilots, Soviet instructors taught Spanish lads as airmen. Others were taught to drive tanks.

In addition the Soviet Union suffered great losses in under to help Spain. Its ships were bombed by Italian planes and sunk by German submarines. Some people think that the Soviet Union should have done more, not realising how much the Soviet Union actually did. Much of what it sent never arrived at its destination because of the activities not only of the German and Italian fascists, but also because of the activities of the 'non-interventionists', such as France, who prevented supplies destined for Spain from crossing French territory. In my opinion the Soviet Union did all that was humanly possible to do in the conditions prevailing at that time.

Why has Loach been given so much money to make such a film? Why is Orwell being taught in the schools as if he were a great author? It can only be that the ruling circles in imperialist countries want to lower people's vigilance against fascism.

If you are going to fight fascism you have to realise that it is fascism you fight at that time. You do not fight several other battles simultaneously if that can be avoided.

The second lesson of the Spanish Civil War is that you do have to fight, even if there is a possibility of losing. You may lose, but if you do not fight at the very first signs of fascism you will definitely lose.''


Now as to who actually 'betrayed' the revolution. POUM acted as Fascist mercanaries.


''The POUM leaders were accused by the PCE of being in the pay of Franco, and some of the incidents reported above indicate why this was plausible and widely believed in Republican Spain.(85) Plainly, the POUM earned their money, even if they didn't collect it.

On May 11, 5 days after the fighting began, Faupel, Hitler's ambassador to Franco, wrote:

"Concerning the disorders in Barcelona, Franco has told me that the street fighting was provoked by his agents. Nicholas Franco has confirmed this report, informing me that they have a total of 13 agents in Barcelona. Some time ago one of them had reported that the tension between Anarchists and Communists in Barcelona was so great that it could well end in street fighting. The Generalissimo told me that at first he doubted this agent's reports, but later they were confirmed by other agents. Ordinarily he didn't intend to take advantage of the possibility until military operations had been established in Catalonia. But since the Reds had recently attacked Teruel to aid the Government of Euzcadi (the Basque provinces), he thought the time was right for the outbreak of disorders in Barcelona. In fact, a few days after he had received the order, the agent in question with three or four of this men, succeeded in provoking shooting in the streets which later led to the desired results."(86)

Soon after the May fighting, a number of Franco agents were caught in Barcelona, and implicated Nin--perhaps for their own reasons.''

[Just Joe]

I think in the circumstances, the USSR helped as much as it could. Maybe even more than it could knowing how it could have easily provoked the west or Germany into invading on the grounds of the USSR helping foreign revolutions (a bit like invading Afghanistan for harbouring terrorists).

I don't rate Marxists.Com that highly anymore. I think they spend more time having a go at Stalin than actually putting across a viable point.

[elijahcraig]

the USSR did support the Republicans instead of the people in the revolution though, that can't be overlooked.

[redstar2000]

I'm in agreement with Abiyot...the situation was enormously complex; in fact, it varied from region to region...as did the politics of the various groups involved in that struggle. To say the PCE "did this" or that the POUM "said that" is unhelpful unless you can specifiy where in Spain and exactly when those things happened.

For example, I've read recently that the FAI/CNT--the anarcho-syndicalists--were by no means a monolithic body with a uniform policy...but varied widely in their analyses and strategies for the revolution. Some wished to turn the civil war into a "three-way" struggle and wage war on both the fascists and the (bourgeois) Spanish Republic. Others accepted the "logic" of the PCE and joined the bourgeois government, as the "lesser evil".

Considering the outcome, I would agree with a critic I read recently who said that the FAI/CNT should have "stuck" to their principles and made it a three-way war. Presumably, they would still have been defeated...but they would have gone down fighting for what they wanted, not for what they despised.

The same goes for the PCE, of course.

:cool:

PS: If Stalin were alive today, would everybody who disagreed with him be "a paid agent of the CIA"?

[Som]

Not sit around playing football which was what the Anarchists did.

I've seen you make this slander quite a bit, can you show some evidence for it?
Preferably not something easily dismissed as one-sided stalinist propaganda.

"Concerning the disorders in Barcelona, Franco has told me that the street fighting was provoked by his agents. Nicholas Franco has confirmed this report, informing me that they have a total of 13 agents in Barcelona.

I might be missing some context here but 13 agents in one of the biggest cities in the country is NOT evidence of some sort of vast betrayal, and far from show an entire faction off as fascist mercenaries.

Also, thats the sort of arrogant crap you'd expect in any note from ambassadors, high statesmen, so on, I'm sure you could find far more damning horseshit out of those brown nosing little weasels, after all, good news is job security.

I suppose the PCE was the bastion of secure operations, with no leaks or cracks?

I think aside from asking for little questions like sources, its not much to waste time with any indepth argument on whose the bigger fuckup in the spanish civil war considering every faction has loads of evidence, and even more slanderous bullshit, pointing to the failure being the other guys fault.

But really, how could those filthy lazy mob like anarchists be playing football, when they were busy being slaughtered by the jackal-like monstrosity of the stalinist secret police murder squads?


(Edited by Som at 5:50 am on July 16, 2003)

[Morpheus]

The opening of the Soviet archives has conclusively proven that Stalin didn't give a rats ass about defending democracy, he wanted to establish a puppet government in Spain that would give him power and negotiating pieces with the British/French. This is also shown by the hitler-stalin pact. By suppressing the collectives and all opposition the PCE demoralized the population (making it much easier for the Fascists to win) and also hurt the economy. The anarchists shouldn't cooperated with the gov't; they should have immediately expropriated the gold reserves and used them to buy weapons on the international market before the "non-intervention" pact went into effect. A revolutionary war strategy might have succeeded, IMO.


Who was involved and led the military putsch and conspiracy that led to the final surrender to Franco and the defeat and death of tens of thosands of Spanish workers, peasants, communists and anarchists?

A coalition of all the groups whom the PCE was trying to wipe out. The civil war had already been lost by the time that happened, however. The Fascists had most of Spain and there was no way they could win. The purpose of the coup was to negotiate an "honorable peace."

http://www.struggle.ws/spaindx.html

[Kez]

You say that the communists were fighting fascism and at the time and due to "enourmous complexities etc etc " this is all they cudda done. So by this you must take on board for all intents and purposes they were fighting as capitalists, and so for the time being they werent communists AT ALL, but capitalist fighters?

the soviet union due to the enourmous advantages of the planned economy would have had vast vast resources, and could quite easily have smashed the fascist state, however, it is a well known fact that Stalin was an ultra-conservative force, ie didnt want anything to be too unstable (such as revolution) this was later proved in the hitler pact.

It is anal to say your fighting fascism but not capitlaism, when capitalism IS the source of fascism. However, this would have been too much for stalin and the burocrats, and would have taken too much of their time from their eating and drinking.

As for Germany and Italy being a threat, Germany had the single most important element for revoltuion the proleteriat, and it had the strongest in europe, so why was Stalin not agitating for revolution? Why was the "CP" of germany allying with the fascists in strikes instead of smashing them and instead putting up communist strikes??

The same applies for Italy, where socialism was plenty in the country, and genuine heroes were slaughtered by the fascist mussolini when Stalin could have easily have helped.

All this is linked together:
-The planned eeconomy was not operating properly due to lack of democracy and Stalinism being a caricature of socialism, where burocrats took on the role of the capitalists, clotting up the veins of the planned economy
-The conservative nature of Stalinism and the lack of energy put into instigating revolution
-Lack of Marxist theory, and the loss of principles leading to such bullshit as the Popular front

Heres "the lessons of spain" by Ted Grant
http://www.marxist.com/TUT/TUT1-1.html

have a read