Communism & Religion

[Knight of Cydonia]

i'm a new member in this forum and want to learn about a lot of thing. i kind of concern about communism & religion. since 1965, the government in my country claim that communism are illegal because communism does not match with the religions. i want to know are all of the communist is atheist?

thank you for who ever answer my question in this thread. :)

[Rollo]

Generally communism offers freedom from religion.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 03:40 am
Generally communism offers freedom from religion.
what kind of freedom? and the means offer is in a hard way?

[Rollo]

What is the national religion of indonesia?

But generally if a religion is opressive and destructive you will not have to practice it.

[Red October]

Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2006 03:50 pm
What is the national religion of indonesia?

islam.

freedom from religion means you dont have the state forcing you to practice any religion while you're also protected from other parties trying to force it on you.

[Knight of Cydonia]

Originally posted by Red October 1922+December 13, 2006 03:56 am--> (Red October 1922 @ December 13, 2006 03:56 am)
[email protected] 12, 2006 03:50 pm
What is the national religion of indonesia?

islam.

[/b]
100% correct :lol:

red october 1922... it's seem you know a lot about my country,i appreciate that and thanks for the answer :)

[Chocobo]

And if one is capable of understanding communism then hopefully they should be able to understand that evolution is scientific fact, god is the most absurd myth, and religious guidelines are just conformity.

[Boriznov]

Well it lies in the person itself that he want's to believe in those conformity's or not.
If a person want's to believe in christianity then he must be free to do so BUT he will not be allowed to FORCE it upon other people.

[Red Menace]

Basic Marxist docterine takes up atheist views. However Private worshipping is allowed. All forms of organized religion will be abolished. Churches will be demolished for revolutionary purpouses.

[Red October]

Originally posted by Red [email protected] 12, 2006 05:11 pm
Basic Marxist docterine takes up atheist views. However Private worshipping is allowed. All forms of organized religion will be abolished. Churches will be demolished for revolutionary purpouses.
people should be allowed to have churches. we cant tell people they're allowed to believe in something then wipe out all physical traces of it. now if a church was actively opposing the revolution or oppressing the workers it could be removed.

[Fawkes]

^^^^ Agree %100.


Well it lies in the person itself that he want's to believe in those conformity's or not

Goddamn conformists. (If confused, see the "How True Punx Are You" thread in Chit-Chat.

[Red Menace]

Originally posted by Red October 1922+December 12, 2006 06:26 pm--> (Red October 1922 @ December 12, 2006 06:26 pm)
Red [email protected] 12, 2006 05:11 pm
Basic Marxist docterine takes up atheist views. However Private worshipping is allowed. All forms of organized religion will be abolished. Churches will be demolished for revolutionary purpouses.
people should be allowed to have churches. we cant tell people they're allowed to believe in something then wipe out all physical traces of it. now if a church was actively opposing the revolution or oppressing the workers it could be removed. [/b]
I'm not saying I agree with this. I'm just saying thats the way it will most likely turn out.

[Delta]

Originally posted by Red October 1922+December 12, 2006 05:26 pm--> (Red October 1922 @ December 12, 2006 05:26 pm)
Red [email protected] 12, 2006 05:11 pm
Basic Marxist docterine takes up atheist views. However Private worshipping is allowed. All forms of organized religion will be abolished. Churches will be demolished for revolutionary purpouses.
people should be allowed to have churches. we cant tell people they're allowed to believe in something then wipe out all physical traces of it. now if a church was actively opposing the revolution or oppressing the workers it could be removed. [/b]
Hopefully those that can't shake off religion will understand why the community may not want to use public space and resources to build temples to their gods.

[bezdomni]

the government in my country claim that communism are illegal because communism does not match with the religions.
They're right.

Materialism isn't compatible with religion.

That's not to say that communists can't work with progressive religious people though.

[Red October]

Originally posted by Delta+December 12, 2006 09:04 pm--> (Delta @ December 12, 2006 09:04 pm)
Originally posted by Red October [email protected] 12, 2006 05:26 pm

Red [email protected] 12, 2006 05:11 pm
Basic Marxist docterine takes up atheist views. However Private worshipping is allowed. All forms of organized religion will be abolished. Churches will be demolished for revolutionary purpouses.
people should be allowed to have churches. we cant tell people they're allowed to believe in something then wipe out all physical traces of it. now if a church was actively opposing the revolution or oppressing the workers it could be removed.
Hopefully those that can't shake off religion will understand why the community may not want to use public space and resources to build temples to their gods. [/b]
i think we can spare a little land for a church

[Delta]

Originally posted by Red October 1922+December 12, 2006 08:47 pm--> (Red October 1922 @ December 12, 2006 08:47 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 12, 2006 09:04 pm

Originally posted by Red October [email protected] 12, 2006 05:26 pm

Red [email protected] 12, 2006 05:11 pm
Basic Marxist docterine takes up atheist views. However Private worshipping is allowed. All forms of organized religion will be abolished. Churches will be demolished for revolutionary purpouses.
people should be allowed to have churches. we cant tell people they're allowed to believe in something then wipe out all physical traces of it. now if a church was actively opposing the revolution or oppressing the workers it could be removed.
Hopefully those that can't shake off religion will understand why the community may not want to use public space and resources to build temples to their gods.
i think we can spare a little land for a church [/b]
A church? If we're going to build churches shouldn't we build one for every religion?

[Xiao Banfa]

That's not to say that communists can't work with progressive religious people though.

That's not to say progressive religious people can't be communists. Like Malcolm X.

What is a "progressive religious person" anyway?

Are they downgraded to just "progressive" even if they want a communist society?
If they understand marxist economics and his analysis of capital?

If they belong to communist parties? If they follow Lenin's theory of practice?

Those are the important characteristics of a communist.

A communist is someone who wants to build socialism in preparation for the communist future.

[bezdomni]

Are they downgraded to just "progressive" even if they want a communist society?
If they understand marxist economics and his analysis of capital?

If they belong to communist parties? If they follow Lenin's theory of practice?

Those are the important characteristics of a communist.

A communist is someone who wants to build socialism in preparation for the communist future.


Religious people logically cannot be materialists, and having a materialist analysis of society is fundamental to being a Marxist.

Religious leftists certainly exist, but they are idealists; not materialists.

Religious socialism = Utopian socialism.

[phoenixoftime]

IMO religion and politics should not mix. Otherwise, people should be free to think how they want. Supressing religion simply gives counter-revolutionary forces another card to play (and a pretty easy one at that).

[chimx]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 04:37 am
Religious people logically cannot be materialists, and having a materialist analysis of society is fundamental to being a Marxist.

Religious leftists certainly exist, but they are idealists; not materialists.

Religious socialism = Utopian socialism.
being a marxist is not fundamental to being a communist. i would also argue it is perfectly acceptable to have a materialist understanding of the material world, and a immaterial spiritual understanding of the "hereafter". how does believing in god effect production relations?

[Phugebrins]

I'd add that you can be religious and a marxist, in the same way that you can be a quantum physicist and a marxist. All you do is avoid using "god did it" or "neutrinos did it" as a tool of political analysis.

[Bright Banana Beard]

I'd add that you can be religious and a marxist, in the same way that you can be a quantum physicist and a marxist. All you do is avoid using "god did it" or "neutrinos did it" as a tool of political analysis. Love that quote! ^^
But what if the person volunteer to learn about religious? I mean not in public way. And how can we teach atheist to respect & to show "yes you're right there no evidence".

[ern]

Hi

It is contradictory to say that one can believe in god, or any other super-natural being, and be a communist: given that the foundation of marxism is the historical materialist method.
That said, I agree with those who have said that the proletariat is against the repression of religion now or after the overthrow of capitalism. The policy of Soviets after 1917 was to allow religious practice but did not give it any state aid, because the only way of defeating the influence of religion on a mass scale was through showing that in reality the revolutionary society and communism offer a real alternative to the illusions of religion. It was the Stalinist who began the systematic repression of religion. This did not mean that the Bolsheviks did not carry out work to counter the influence of influence of religion, obviously they did but it was not done through repression, rather they tried to persuade and convince those under the influence of religion.

[Delta]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 03:14 pm
I'd add that you can be religious and a marxist, in the same way that you can be a quantum physicist and a marxist. All you do is avoid using "god did it" or "neutrinos did it" as a tool of political analysis.
Physics and marxism are both based on reality, religion is not.

[Janus]

But what if the person volunteer to learn about religious?
There's a difference between learning about religion and actual religious worship. The former would be taken up once religion has become obsolete.


And how can we teach atheist to respect & to show "yes you're right there no evidence".
I'm not sure what you mean there but the burden of proof falls on the theists.

[Bright Banana Beard]

And how can we teach atheist to respect & to show "yes you're right there no evidence".

I'm not sure what you mean there but the burden of proof falls on the theists.

I meant that how atheist will finally understand that there no evidence about God. I just tried that we going to have this debate about this forever.

[Pawn Power]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 10:19 am


And how can we teach atheist to respect & to show "yes you're right there no evidence".

I'm not sure what you mean there but the burden of proof falls on the theists.

I meant that how atheist will finally understand that there no evidence about God. I just tried that we going to have this debate about this forever.
You mean no evidence for a god or gods. Just like there is not evidence for unicorns or elfs.