History of the Irish Struggle - "The Troubles"

[Valkyrie]

http://wwwvms.utexas.edu/~jdana/history/ni.html

[BOZG]

A slum is a slum no matter what flag flies over it and no matter what religion is practised in it --- James Connolly


The only man with any sort of vision throughout the history of rebellions against the British. Most Irish republicans merely hoped to expel the British and continue on with the same society.

[Just Joe]

The only man with any sort of vision throughout the history of rebellions against the British. Most Irish republicans merely hoped to expel the British and continue on with the same society.

Thats why it is up to the left to present the only real alternative to the situation at the moment; to win over a section of the protestant working class.

Not all republicans want to create a capitalist Ireland. Most I know dont at all. Republicans like Sinn Fein just think things need to happen in stages- Brits out- re-unification-socialism. Im not saying all of Sinn Fein are real Socialists but there are some genuine Republican Socialists in there.

I can't remember the exact quote from Mr Connolly, but wasn't it something like- "The re-unification of the 32 counties will mean nothing if it is not turned into a Socialist Republic". Never a truer word spoken.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Just Joe on 1:31 am on June 27, 2003
The only man with any sort of vision throughout the history of rebellions against the British. Most Irish republicans merely hoped to expel the British and continue on with the same society.

Thats why it is up to the left to present the only real alternative to the situation at the moment; to win over a section of the protestant working class.

Not all republicans want to create a capitalist Ireland. Most I know dont at all. Republicans like Sinn Fein just think things need to happen in stages- Brits out- re-unification-socialism. Im not saying all of Sinn Fein are real Socialists but there are some genuine Republican Socialists in there.

I can't remember the exact quote from Mr Connolly, but wasn't it something like- "The re-unification of the 32 counties will mean nothing if it is not turned into a Socialist Republic". Never a truer word spoken.

Not all republicans want to create a capitalist Ireland. Most I know dont at all. Republicans like Sinn Fein just think things need to happen in stages- Brits out- re-unification-socialism. Im not saying all of Sinn Fein are real Socialists but there are some genuine Republican Socialists in there.

Not to mention all the other political ideologys randing to the far right, but you vote for who you want mate.

There are some genuine supporters of the working class in the labour party that does not mean that I am going to vote for Blair.

PS what do you think of Daniel O'connal (O'Connel?), just out of interest?

[Just Joe]

Not to mention all the other political ideologys randing to the far right, but you vote for who you want mate.

There are no far right wingers in Sinn Fein you blithering idiot. Read there manifesto. The Irish far right absolutely detest Sinn Fein

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Just Joe on 12:41 pm on June 30, 2003
Not to mention all the other political ideologys randing to the far right, but you vote for who you want mate.

There are no far right wingers in Sinn Fein you blithering idiot. Read there manifesto. The Irish far right absolutely detest Sinn Fein

Read the "new" Labour manifesto, reading that you would not expect any leftists to be in that, but we know that there are.

Dumb ass.

[Just Joe]

I don't think I've ever encountered someone on the net as uninformed about politics and yet so sure of his opinion than you, AK-47.

Go to Irish far right sites and see what they say about Sinn Fein.

Sinn Fein is not the only Republican party to join in Ireland you know. Virtually ALL Irish parties in the free state support some form of re-unification with the six counties. If you are a racist, there is just no reason you'd consider joining Sinn Fein.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Just Joe on 8:34 pm on June 30, 2003
I don't think I've ever encountered someone on the net as uninformed about politics and yet so sure of his opinion than you, AK-47.

Go to Irish far right sites and see what they say about Sinn Fein.

Sinn Fein is not the only Republican party to join in Ireland you know. Virtually ALL Irish parties in the free state support some form of re-unification with the six counties. If you are a racist, there is just no reason you'd consider joining Sinn Fein.

Race has nothing to do with Sinn Fein or any other Irish party relavant to this discussion, religion perhaps, not race. Also if you want to smash a political system that does not automatically make you leftwing. Did you know that Hitler attempted to start a Right revolution called the Munich Putsch. Why did he do it? Because he wanted to Unify East, west Germany and remove the occupation of the Rhine land, etc.

Also far right does not necessarily mean Fascist, extream capitalists as well. Not even you can deny that the IRA and Sinn Fein are capitalistic. They are therefor right wing, they are extream because they use violance and intimidation to achive their aims. Of course you could argue that Sinn Fein is not the same as the IRA, but Sinn Fein is the political wing of the IRA, so they can be considered part of the same organisation.

(Edited by AK47 at 9:11 pm on June 30, 2003)

[pastradamus]

Quote: from AK47 on 9:08 pm on June 30, 2003

Race has nothing to do with Sinn Fein or any other Irish party relavant to this discussion, religion perhaps, not race. Also if you want to smash a political system that does not automatically make you leftwing. Did you know that Hitler attempted to start a Right revolution called the Munich Putsch. Why did he do it? Because he wanted to Unify East, west Germany and remove the occupation of the Rhine land, etc.

Also far right does not necessarily mean Fascist, extream capitalists as well. Not even you can deny that the IRA and Sinn Fein are capitalistic. They are therefor right wing, they are extream because they use violance and intimidation to achive their aims. Of course you could argue that Sinn Fein is not the same as the IRA, but Sinn Fein is the political wing of the IRA, so they can be considered part of the same organisation.

(Edited by AK47 at 9:11 pm on June 30, 2003)


OH god not this idiot again.First of all Sinn fein has nothing to do with religion,Its goal it to re-unify the 6 counties and create a leftist state with freedom of religion.

Hitlers Beer hall putsch has absouletly NOTHING to do with the statement made by joe.Sinn fein's manifesto clearly sets down marxist principles,so WTF do u want them to do! write it on your forehead?

And another thing,your thinking of the IRA as one big organisation with only one faction,its actually made up of many.The REAL IRA are the current troublemakers,they have no links with sinn fein.Sinn fein's links lie with the currently dormant PROVISIONAL IRA,who kept their word in remaining peacefull.

BTW new labour are a sold out blairist group of idiots.Blair has betrayed Britains Socialists by selling his soul for his "neo-idealist left" (as he put it) policy.They are "social democrats",in other words just plain capitalists,I dont see how you can connect Sinn fein with the labour in that respect.How can u prove that sinn fein will betray socialism even though they were never in power.

BTW joe is right,the vast majority of Irish political parties have republican leanings towards the situation in NI.They wouldnt get the vote otherwise.

[Just Joe]

Pastradamus put it well but I'll add my responce to AK-47 anyway.

Race has nothing to do with Sinn Fein or any other Irish party relavant to this discussion, religion perhaps, not race.

AK, you told me there were far-right members of Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein is an openly anti-racist party who has in the past supported immigration and campaigned against the usual populist anti-immigrant sentiment. Why would any far right winger join a party like this?

Also if you want to smash a political system that does not automatically make you leftwing.

I didn't say it did.

Did you know that Hitler attempted to start a Right revolution called the Munich Putsch. Why did he do it? Because he wanted to Unify East, west Germany and remove the occupation of the Rhine land, etc.

As usual from you, this is complete garbage. Hitlers reasons were not so simplistic.

Also far right does not necessarily mean Fascist, extream capitalists as well. Not even you can deny that the IRA and Sinn Fein are capitalistic.

Simple words can't describe what a clown you are AK-47, but rather than get into a slanging match (again), I'll explain this carefully. Sinn Fein's goal is to set up a Socialist Republic of Ireland. There is no point in them saying this if they aint gonna do it, is there? Its not like they say it to pander to populism, because as I've pointed out, they've taken anti-populist stances in the past. They say they agree with Socialism because the vast majority of members do. The IRA officially is NOT the military wing of Sinn Fein and its members are actually MORE left wing than Sinn Fein. Most of the IRA's ruling council or staunch Marxists. Please do not come with your un-proven allegations of drug dealing or gangsterism. The Loyalist side is known for this and although I don't deny there are people in the IRA who earn money from so called 'capitalist methods' as some would call them, it is not done with the consent of the central leadership as in the Loyalist paramilitaries.

[Invader Zim]

Quote: from Just Joe on 3:20 pm on July 2, 2003
Pastradamus put it well but I'll add my responce to AK-47 anyway.

Race has nothing to do with Sinn Fein or any other Irish party relavant to this discussion, religion perhaps, not race.

AK, you told me there were far-right members of Sinn Fein. Sinn Fein is an openly anti-racist party who has in the past supported immigration and campaigned against the usual populist anti-immigrant sentiment. Why would any far right winger join a party like this?

Also if you want to smash a political system that does not automatically make you leftwing.

I didn't say it did.

Did you know that Hitler attempted to start a Right revolution called the Munich Putsch. Why did he do it? Because he wanted to Unify East, west Germany and remove the occupation of the Rhine land, etc.

As usual from you, this is complete garbage. Hitlers reasons were not so simplistic.

Also far right does not necessarily mean Fascist, extream capitalists as well. Not even you can deny that the IRA and Sinn Fein are capitalistic.

Simple words can't describe what a clown you are AK-47, but rather than get into a slanging match (again), I'll explain this carefully. Sinn Fein's goal is to set up a Socialist Republic of Ireland. There is no point in them saying this if they aint gonna do it, is there? Its not like they say it to pander to populism, because as I've pointed out, they've taken anti-populist stances in the past. They say they agree with Socialism because the vast majority of members do. The IRA officially is NOT the military wing of Sinn Fein and its members are actually MORE left wing than Sinn Fein. Most of the IRA's ruling council or staunch Marxists. Please do not come with your un-proven allegations of drug dealing or gangsterism. The Loyalist side is known for this and although I don't deny there are people in the IRA who earn money from so called 'capitalist methods' as some would call them, it is not done with the consent of the central leadership as in the Loyalist paramilitaries.

Live in your happy dream of the IRA, I cannot be bothered to discuss this further with you, it will only end in petty flame. (which you have already resorted to in this thread) I just hope that when you actually grow up, you will see what the IRA is and not this propagandist dream they have created.

[Just Joe]

Mate, I'm older than you. By a few years in all likelyhood. I used to hold the belief that the IRA was our only hope but thats proven to be wrong.

I support the philosophy behind armed struggle and I support the goals of the IRA, but they have made huge tactical errors too many times for me to think they are our only hope of re-unifying the country let alone starting to build anything resembling Socialism.

You have to see the difference between the philosophy and ideology, and the actual people or acts they commit. A bit like British Nationalists supporting the institution of the monarchy without liking the current bunch of royals.

[MEXCAN]

A Sniper’s Prayer


Dear God,You are just:You know I must
To free my country I pledged my trust
Steady my hand and receive his soul
To avenge our dead I take my toll
By position,protection and superior gun
His chances against me are a thousand to one
A soldier is he and so am I
For love of my country I’m ready to die
I fear no pain, I seek no gain
Only free my people from their chain
I raise my gun and through my sights I see
An instrument of tyranny
I wait and watch him draw a breath
And Fire!!
I have done the deed,I have swept a life away
Forgive me God. Again I pray