Could the USSR have turned out better - If the west would ha

[commie kg]

Stalinism was obviously a huge setback in the USSR, but after Stalin died, given enough time, could the USSR have evolved into a better state? Was all lost already?

I was just reading through http://www.cpusa.org and they seemed to think so.

What are your thoughts?

[El Barbudo]

Even with Lenin, this was totalitarism... So what would have been change without Stalin? He helped with the industrialisation of USSR. So i mean, he helped the totalitarism state of Russia, but killed millions of people. However, Lenin had started the job.

[commie kg]

Quote: from El Barbudo on 3:02 pm on June 16, 2003
Even with Lenin, this was totalitarism... So what would have been change without Stalin? He helped with the industrialisation of USSR. So i mean, he helped the totalitarism state of Russia, but killed millions of people. However, Lenin had started the job.

That is true, I don't think Leninism would have ever lead to "pure" communism.
I was just wondering if the west had left them alone, maybe it would have evolved into something better than it ended up as.

[Invader Zim]

I would agree with the statment, simply from the economic aspect of the situation. If the emnity btween the west and the USSR had not been so great the trade and skills of the west could have been far more easily that it was. Churchills "Iron curtain" is an description of this emnity. without the wests emnity the leaders of the USSR would not have feared western interfearance and counter revolutionary activitys.

[sc4r]

I think its entirely possible that the USSR would have approached socialism (I dont think it would have had nearly enough time to get to communism yet) had it not had to worry about first Nazi germany and then the combined opposition of the west.

I think that even Stalins regime would have been considerable more benevolent or if not that he might have been deposed had there not been a 'dangerous enemy' syndrome to keep the thing together.

BTW its perhaps worth noting that Stalins 'humanitarian crimes' are now seen by several scholars as having been massively overstated. Far from the 10-20m executons he is often credited with some evaluations of actual Kremlin archives put the figure nearer 1m. This still leaves him a monster who I for one have no sympathy for; but it does show just how insidious the disinformation process against anything hinting of non eadherence to Liberal democarcy is.

[Nobody]

I think if Trotsky had followed Lenin (which was his intent), not only would the CCCP have turned out better, but Communism as a whole would have been moved forward.

[Organic Revolution]

Quote: from LevTrosky on 2:10 am on June 28, 2003
I think if Trotsky had followed Lenin (which was his intent), not only would the CCCP have turned out better, but Communism as a whole would have been moved forward.

exactly

[Red Comrade]

I know I'm going to get flamed by other Marxist-Leninists, but I must agree, Trotsky would've probably been a better leader than Stalin.

I believe in democratic centralism and all, but totalitarianism and autocracy is not acceptable. How are our workers and proletariat supposed to live without democracy? I agree that the bourgeois must be purged if they resist, but the proletariat should be free to do what it wishes.

[elijahcraig]

Why would you get flamed by Marxist-Leninists? Trotsky was the intended replacement, not Stalin.

Lenin wasn't totalitarianistic, that was Stalin.

[TXsocialist]

True marxist leninists, given the choice, would choose trotsky, although I'm no trot(they've turned into man-worshippers)

[Comrade Ceausescu]

i think khruschev did an excellent job.but he couldve done even better if he didnt have the imperialists breathing down his back.

[Kez]

first off, khrushev began the counter revolution with his capitalist reforms

2ndly, il commie, all marxist leninists with agree with you, only the stalinist would disagree

3rdly, i am a trot, and i believe that there is a lot of man worshipping, instead of his ideas, which is a shame. However, its not so bad in the organisation i joined.

comrade kamo

[Marxist in Nebraska]

Had Trotsky come to power over Stalin, we may well be living in a socialist world today. The capitalist economy crashed in many parts of the world by 1930. Trotsky, a champion of worldwide revolution, could have given tremendous aid to revolutionaries in the United States. If we had had socialism in the USA and USSR by 1940, the fascists would have been crushed faster than they were, and I believe we would have socialism worldwide by now.

[Morpheus]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27 2003, 08:10 PM
I think if Trotsky had followed Lenin (which was his intent), not only would the CCCP have turned out better, but Communism as a whole would have been moved forward.
This is an example of the Great Man Theory of History. It contradicts Trotsky's own theories - he claimed that Stalinism and the rise of the bureaucracy was the result of the particular conditions the revolution found itself in, not who the "great leader" is.

Had the west not attacked the revolution there would probably have been less repression, but it would still have been run by a bureuacratic elite that exploited the workers. It's pretty unrealistic to think that the imperialists aren't going to fight the revolution, this is something all revolutions will have to deal with.

[Vinny Rafarino]

All these "ideas" would definitely come about.


If Walt Disney made Commie-land that is.