What is going on in Colombia with the FARC-EP?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

What is going on in Colombia? What is the situation with the FARC-EP? What is the situation with the drug cartels and Right-Wing paramilitaries? Any information would be great. Thanks.

[Red October]

isnt FARC involved in the drug trade?

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Not more than the government or the right-wing paramilitaries. They use it too buy arms and fund the revolution, at least that's what I've heard.

[Red Heretic]

There is an on-going civil war between the FARC and the Columbian state. In the past, the FARC was a proxy army for Soviet imperialism, trying to replace the Columbian state which served US imperialism. FARC's whole thing has always been to wage armed struggle enough to get control of the state through negotiations (not through actually overthrowing it). The goal was, in short, to influence the bourgeois state enough to make it switch it's loyalties from US imperialism to Soviet imperialism. This was basically the strategy used all over the world by the Soviet imperialists.

Anyway, today they're in a crisis because they no longer have an imperialist power to back them. Last I heard, they were desperately trying to get admitted into the bourgeois state.

[Whitten]

They control fairly big portions of the country and have alot of support in the rural areas. They're still amongst the most active and powerful guerilla armies in the world.

[Krasnaya]

There is an on-going civil war between the FARC and the Columbian state. In the past, the FARC was a proxy army for Soviet imperialism, trying to replace the Columbian state which served US imperialism. FARC's whole thing has always been to wage armed struggle enough to get control of the state through negotiations (not through actually overthrowing it). The goal was, in short, to influence the bourgeois state enough to make it switch it's loyalties from US imperialism to Soviet imperialism. This was basically the strategy used all over the world by the Soviet imperialists.

Anyway, today they're in a crisis because they no longer have an imperialist power to back them. Last I heard, they were desperately trying to get admitted into the bourgeois state.

Eh, youre wrong.

FARC's aim has always been to smash the state and replace it with a socialist state based on marxism-leninism. FARC's members are some of the most educated on marxism-leninism of all geurilla armies.

FARC does not engage in the drug trade. FARC simply taxes coca farmers.

FARC will never participate in bourgeoise elections. They already tried that. They made a political party to participate in elections. Combining all forms of struggle. But most of the members of the party were killed by right wing paramilitaries, government forces, or drug cartels.

[harris0]

There are no good guys in the COlumbia situation. The FARC are drug dealers and terrorists that target civilians.

[Scots_Socialist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2006 09:01 pm
There are no good guys in the COlumbia situation. The FARC are drug dealers and terrorists that target civilians.
Did you watch that on CNN?

[manic expression]

I heard many of the RW paramilitaries agreed to lay down their arms, but I have no idea if this agreement has been followed or had any effect whatsoever. Other than that, there's been more FARC activity recently, they ambushed a group of police a week or so ago. Anything else anyone's heard about?

[harris0]

Originally posted by Scots_Socialist+December 09, 2006 09:44 pm--> (Scots_Socialist @ December 09, 2006 09:44 pm)
[email protected] 09, 2006 09:01 pm
There are no good guys in the COlumbia situation. The FARC are drug dealers and terrorists that target civilians.
Did you watch that on CNN? [/b]
No actually...read it on the capitalist conspiracy which is Amnesty International

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAM...open&of=ENG-COL (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR230072006?open&of=ENG-COL)

[manic expression]

Originally posted by harris0+December 10, 2006 12:02 am--> (harris0 @ December 10, 2006 12:02 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2006 09:44 pm

[email protected] 09, 2006 09:01 pm
There are no good guys in the COlumbia situation. The FARC are drug dealers and terrorists that target civilians.
Did you watch that on CNN?
No actually...read it on the capitalist conspiracy which is Amnesty International

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAM...open&of=ENG-COL (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR230072006?open&of=ENG-COL) [/b]
AI would never condone a socialist revolution. Of course they allude to such a position.

Anyway, they can be quite misled sometimes. For instance, when Cuba arrested people who were taking money from foreign insurrectionary groups (and the US), AI said they were political prisoners, which is ludicrous.

[harris0]

Originally posted by manic expression+December 10, 2006 01:42 am--> (manic expression @ December 10, 2006 01:42 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 12:02 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2006 09:44 pm

[email protected] 09, 2006 09:01 pm
There are no good guys in the COlumbia situation. The FARC are drug dealers and terrorists that target civilians.
Did you watch that on CNN?
No actually...read it on the capitalist conspiracy which is Amnesty International

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAM...open&of=ENG-COL (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR230072006?open&of=ENG-COL)
AI would never condone a socialist revolution. Of course they allude to such a position.

Anyway, they can be quite misled sometimes. For instance, when Cuba arrested people who were taking money from foreign insurrectionary groups (and the US), AI said they were political prisoners, which is ludicrous. [/b]
Dude...give me a break. Stop apologizing for stuff like this. It discredits the other good stuff you do/might stand for.

[manic expression]

Originally posted by harris0+December 10, 2006 01:54 am--> (harris0 @ December 10, 2006 01:54 am)
Originally posted by manic [email protected] 10, 2006 01:42 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 12:02 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2006 09:44 pm

[email protected] 09, 2006 09:01 pm
There are no good guys in the COlumbia situation. The FARC are drug dealers and terrorists that target civilians.
Did you watch that on CNN?
No actually...read it on the capitalist conspiracy which is Amnesty International

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAM...open&of=ENG-COL (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR230072006?open&of=ENG-COL)
AI would never condone a socialist revolution. Of course they allude to such a position.

Anyway, they can be quite misled sometimes. For instance, when Cuba arrested people who were taking money from foreign insurrectionary groups (and the US), AI said they were political prisoners, which is ludicrous.
Dude...give me a break. Stop apologizing for stuff like this. It discredits the other good stuff you do/might stand for. [/b]
Defending FARC or Cuba?

Would you say that a FARC victory would be better than the continuation of the present status quo?

Would you say that the Cuban government can/should stop people who are taking political money from foreign and hostile groups (practically every government in the world does)?

[harris0]

Originally posted by manic expression+December 10, 2006 02:01 am--> (manic expression @ December 10, 2006 02:01 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 01:54 am

Originally posted by manic [email protected] 10, 2006 01:42 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 12:02 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2006 09:44 pm

[email protected] 09, 2006 09:01 pm
There are no good guys in the COlumbia situation. The FARC are drug dealers and terrorists that target civilians.
Did you watch that on CNN?
No actually...read it on the capitalist conspiracy which is Amnesty International

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAM...open&of=ENG-COL (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR230072006?open&of=ENG-COL)
AI would never condone a socialist revolution. Of course they allude to such a position.

Anyway, they can be quite misled sometimes. For instance, when Cuba arrested people who were taking money from foreign insurrectionary groups (and the US), AI said they were political prisoners, which is ludicrous.
Dude...give me a break. Stop apologizing for stuff like this. It discredits the other good stuff you do/might stand for.
Defending FARC or Cuba?

Would you say that a FARC victory would be better than the continuation of the present status quo?

Would you say that the Cuban government can/should stop people who are taking political money from foreign and hostile groups (practically every government in the world does)? [/b]
As for the FARC question: I don't think there are any good guys in the columbia situation, FARC included. All sides are involved in the drug trade and killing civilians. The big losers in this situation is the people.

As for Cuba: I'd like to see Cuba open up there democracy so any political parties or candidates can participate. So it is not unfairly influenced by foreign influences or the super rich, they should put in place very strict campaign finance laws.

[manic expression]

Originally posted by harris0+December 10, 2006 02:18 am--> (harris0 @ December 10, 2006 02:18 am)
Originally posted by manic [email protected] 10, 2006 02:01 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 01:54 am

Originally posted by manic [email protected] 10, 2006 01:42 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 12:02 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2006 09:44 pm

[email protected] 09, 2006 09:01 pm
There are no good guys in the COlumbia situation. The FARC are drug dealers and terrorists that target civilians.
Did you watch that on CNN?
No actually...read it on the capitalist conspiracy which is Amnesty International

http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAM...open&of=ENG-COL (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR230072006?open&of=ENG-COL)
AI would never condone a socialist revolution. Of course they allude to such a position.

Anyway, they can be quite misled sometimes. For instance, when Cuba arrested people who were taking money from foreign insurrectionary groups (and the US), AI said they were political prisoners, which is ludicrous.
Dude...give me a break. Stop apologizing for stuff like this. It discredits the other good stuff you do/might stand for.
Defending FARC or Cuba?

Would you say that a FARC victory would be better than the continuation of the present status quo?

Would you say that the Cuban government can/should stop people who are taking political money from foreign and hostile groups (practically every government in the world does)?
As for the FARC question: I don't think there are any good guys in the columbia situation, FARC included. All sides are involved in the drug trade and killing civilians. The big losers in this situation is the people.

As for Cuba: I'd like to see Cuba open up there democracy so any political parties or candidates can participate. So it is not unfairly influenced by foreign influences or the super rich, they should put in place very strict campaign finance laws. [/b]
FARC may very well be guilty of objectionable actions, but I do believe they are fighting for a better Colombia. Even if you think they are "bad guys", they are by far the best "bad guys".

Cuba's political system is quite democratic. Political parties, including the Communist party, are not allowed to nominate candidates. Nomination is done in open public meetings, and then the candidate is subject to a yes/no vote by the general public. It effectively costs no money to run for office in Cuba.

http://members.allstream.net/~dchris/CubaFAQ.html
http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-1997-98-El...ie=UTF8&s=books (http://www.amazon.com/Democracy-1997-98-Elections-Arnold-August/dp/0968508405/sr=8-1/qid=1165718038/ref=sr_1_1/104-3628490-7835927?ie=UTF8&s=books)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/4569981.stm

[harris0]

So when I read in the following places I found after a quick google search (and I've heard and read it many other times) that the only political party legal in Cuba is the state Communist party, that's 100% false? The sources are all lying?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world...uba.html?nav=el (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/countries/cuba.html?nav=el)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Cuba
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2886.htm

[manic expression]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 02:46 am
So when I read in the following places I found after a quick google search (and I've heard and read it many other times) that the only political party legal in Cuba is the state Communist party, that's 100% false? The sources are all lying?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world...uba.html?nav=el (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/countries/cuba.html?nav=el)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_Party_of_Cuba
http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2886.htm
Those links are not about the electoral process, they're about the status of the party, which is separate from my point. The Communist Party is not allowed to nominate candidates, nomination is done independent of any party.

If you want to make the case that it's bad that there is only one sanctioned party, we can talk about that, but that has little to no bearing on the Cuban electoral system.

[Whitten]

If you dont like Coca then dont use it. ITS THAT SIMPLE. If their people can make money off of it, they can tax it and use the income to help fight the government, and it would be grown anyway, whats the problem? They activly try to avoid civilian casualties, most of the fighting their involved in occurs in their land or where the people they're trying to liberate are located, not doing so would be counter productive.

[harris0]

There are no good guys in Columbia. My guess is that most Columbians would prefer that the FARC's 30+ year revolution just go to hell so long as there is peace.

[Whitten]

There will be no peace so long as that government stays in power.

[harris0]

Did it ever occur to you that that's not what the people want? That maybe they just want an end to the car bombings, the kidnappings, the drug killings, etc. That they're tired of the stupid "revolution"?

Oh wait, that wouldn't fit into your dumbass dogma. You're only capable of seeing the world in one way.

[Vargha Poralli]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 11:58 pm
Did it ever occur to you that that's not what the people want? That maybe they just want an end to the car bombings, the kidnappings, the drug killings, etc. That they're tired of the stupid "revolution"?


If people want peace they will attain it. For fucks sake please read the links that were provided by CDL and Manic expression and then criticise it with credible sources.


Oh wait, that wouldn't fit into your dumbass dogma. You're only capable of seeing the world in one way.

If you are bothered by our "dumbass dogma" why the fuck do you post here ? I guess your ass is well fed and watered by seeing your post count. Why don't you just f**k off @$$#013 ?


That they're tired of the stupid "revolution"?

No revoultion or revolutionary struggle is stupid .If your fucking U$ govt is not interfering in the internal affairs of that country they will live in peace.

[Whitten]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 06:28 pm
Did it ever occur to you that that's not what the people want? That maybe they just want an end to the car bombings, the kidnappings, the drug killings, etc. That they're tired of the stupid "revolution"?

Oh wait, that wouldn't fit into your dumbass dogma. You're only capable of seeing the world in one way.
Did it ever occur to you that some people want to fight for their own freedom? If you dont recognise their right to do that why are you even here?

[harris0]

Originally posted by Whitten+December 10, 2006 07:46 pm--> (Whitten @ December 10, 2006 07:46 pm)
[email protected] 10, 2006 06:28 pm
Did it ever occur to you that that's not what the people want? That maybe they just want an end to the car bombings, the kidnappings, the drug killings, etc. That they're tired of the stupid "revolution"?

Oh wait, that wouldn't fit into your dumbass dogma. You're only capable of seeing the world in one way.
Did it ever occur to you that some people want to fight for their own freedom? If you dont recognise their right to do that why are you even here? [/b]
Did it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what you're talking about? At all?

From a Gallup (prestigious) poll conducted in Columbia.

93% of Columbians said they viewed the FARC disfavorably

http://www.ciponline.org/colombia/blog/

[The Grey Blur]

:lol:

Good source really, excellent.

*thumbs up*

[Krasnaya]

This website has gone to the shit hole. You are all a bunch of idiotic brainwashed pussy crypto-liberal trotskyite anarchists. How about we use that 3% of our brain we have available?

[Labor Shall Rule]

Originally posted by harris0+December 10, 2006 07:50 pm--> (harris0 @ December 10, 2006 07:50 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 07:46 pm

[email protected] 10, 2006 06:28 pm
Did it ever occur to you that that's not what the people want? That maybe they just want an end to the car bombings, the kidnappings, the drug killings, etc. That they're tired of the stupid "revolution"?

Oh wait, that wouldn't fit into your dumbass dogma. You're only capable of seeing the world in one way.
Did it ever occur to you that some people want to fight for their own freedom? If you dont recognise their right to do that why are you even here?
Did it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what you're talking about? At all?

From a Gallup (prestigious) poll conducted in Columbia.

93% of Columbians said they viewed the FARC disfavorably

http://www.ciponline.org/colombia/blog/ [/b]
Well, if you have noticed, they only polled 1,000 people. Did these people come from all class backrounds? Even if this poll took ethnic or class backrounds into consideration, this figure wouldn't represent the opinion of all Colombians towards that of FARC. The FARC-EP are paticularly a rural phenomena anyway, as sourced through their many communiques addressing support for Marxism-Leninism, which gives peasants a prominent role in the revolutionary process. Judging from the fact that the blog said this poll was conducted in 4 cities, rather than that of the countryside, I am guessing that it is ignoring to even mention the support base of FARC altogether.

[Krasnaya]

The people in the city have media monopolized by the bourgeoisie.

[harris0]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 10, 2006 08:42 pm
:lol:

Good source really, excellent.

*thumbs up*
Gallup polling that is a very good source. Thank you, I know.

[harris0]

Originally posted by RedDali+December 10, 2006 09:12 pm--> (RedDali @ December 10, 2006 09:12 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 07:50 pm

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 07:46 pm

[email protected] 10, 2006 06:28 pm
Did it ever occur to you that that's not what the people want? That maybe they just want an end to the car bombings, the kidnappings, the drug killings, etc. That they're tired of the stupid "revolution"?

Oh wait, that wouldn't fit into your dumbass dogma. You're only capable of seeing the world in one way.
Did it ever occur to you that some people want to fight for their own freedom? If you dont recognise their right to do that why are you even here?
Did it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what you're talking about? At all?

From a Gallup (prestigious) poll conducted in Columbia.

93% of Columbians said they viewed the FARC disfavorably

http://www.ciponline.org/colombia/blog/
Well, if you have noticed, they only polled 1,000 people. Did these people come from all class backrounds? Even if this poll took ethnic or class backrounds into consideration, this figure wouldn't represent the opinion of all Colombians towards that of FARC. The FARC-EP are paticularly a rural phenomena anyway, as sourced through their many communiques addressing support for Marxism-Leninism, which gives peasants a prominent role in the revolutionary process. Judging from the fact that the blog said this poll was conducted in 4 cities, rather than that of the countryside, I am guessing that it is ignoring to even mention the support base of FARC altogether. [/b]
That is a legitimate point. But of course I have read of those people in the countryside controlled by the FARC being coerced into supporting them.

[Labor Shall Rule]

Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 09:32 pm
That is a legitimate point. But of course I have read of those people in the countryside controlled by the FARC being coerced into supporting them.
FARC-EP wouldn't exist if they weren't a true force of revolutionary change, and if they ever tried to "coerce" anybody, then they simply wouldn't exist as an organization and as a formidable force against the social diseases of Colombian society. In other words, the rural poor are FARC, rather than the opposite; being that some mythical force some how controls everyone in the "liberated areas". They aren't the largest insurgent group in all of Colombia for no reason.

[LouWrite]

http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/05/20/1425246

The above artice shows the point of view of Colombian people caught between capitalist Colombian policies and the FARC.

Quote from the article:


The Cauca region is a key area near the Atlantic Ocean and has gold, oil and gas. This April, the FARC came into the Cauca community of Toribio and killed a child, injured 20 people and basically razed the community to the ground. That in turn provided cover for the government to send in its forces to "secure" the area; in other words occupy it. Now, the leaders of Toribio say they fear a dirty war is beginning that could produce further massacres. Some of the leaders of the community have traveled to the United States to try and avert what they fear could be a major outbreak of violence.

[ZACKist]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 10, 2006 04:35 am
And in his mad rush to denounce anything that's not Chairman-approved, this young comrade couldn't find time to spell Colombia correctly. He apparently knows enough about the situation to take such a stand.. but doesn't even know how to spell the country's name.

There's no such thing as "Soviet imperialism". The USSR wasn't economically exploiting exploiting anyone. The "export of capital" [from the USSR] never "acquired pronounced importance." There was no "overripe" capitalism in the USSR to give life to imperialism. Don't you uphold the theoretical contributions of Lenin? Go back and read what he wrote on the subject.

FARC has actively fought for the overthrow of the Colombian government, for several decades, they just haven't been able to acheive it. They're up against a government receiving full funding from the U.S. imperialists. After Israel and Egypt, Colombia receives the most U.S. funding of any country on earth. That's hard to compete with.

FARC is not in a crisis today. They're not making deals with the bourgeois or joining in bourgeois governments as the Nepali comrades are (unfortunately) doing. They have stepped up operations over the last several years, and with that have come many new victories and recruits.
Exploiting exploiting... what does that mean? ;)

Don't you think it a bit petty to make criticisms on such minute mistakes?

[cumbia]

Im Colombian-American and I would like to Interject my opinion because this topic regarding the FARC hits close to home and If you never been to colombia or know anyone who was affected by these killers maybe you shoulnt be so naive to speak about these things and these people who have been a bane to my country. Of course we all have different opinions, some more valid then others. When I was in Colombia as a child maybe ten years ago my family and I were returning from my Uncles farm house. My mother told all the kids to put our heads down because the FARC had recently made a strong offensive and were moving close to the Town where we were. My aunts husband, my uncle by marriage was captured and taken hostage by them when he was working as an engineer, they didnt kill him because his firm paid the hostage takers a million a piece for thier lives. Dont regard the the FARC as liberators, they are NARCO-TERRORIST who wouldnt think twice about killing you and your families if you didnt pay them their coca commission.

[Janus]

Dont regard the the FARC as liberators, they are NARCO-TERRORIST who wouldnt think twice about killing you and your families if you didnt pay them their coca commission.
Narco-terrorist is really a smear tactic used by the US and the Colombian gov. in order to discredit FARC. They do profit from the drug trade but so do gov. officials and the paramilitaries.

And you do have to keep in mind that personal stories don't mean a lot on an internet message board.

[Springmeester]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2006 10:21 pm

Dont regard the the FARC as liberators, they are NARCO-TERRORIST who wouldnt think twice about killing you and your families if you didnt pay them their coca commission.
Narco-terrorist is really a smear tactic used by the US and the Colombian gov. in order to discredit FARC. They do profit from the drug trade but so do gov. officials and the paramilitaries.

And you do have to keep in mind that personal stories don't mean a lot on an internet message board.
I fully agree with Janus. It is not only a fact that coca harvest dropped by 33% where FARC controlled the plantations but it is also a fact that they give young people a perspective. There isn't much out there in Colombia, if you are not a bourgeois you have either three choices:

1. Work your whole life as a slave on the plantations for the landowners.
2. Go to the big city and earn a living by dealing drugs or prostituting.
3. Join FARC; get an education and learn how to fight back.

I support FARC completely no matter how much fake polls or capitalist propaganda they throw at me. Common comrades, take a stand!

[Krasnaya]

Im Colombian-American and I would like to Interject my opinion because this topic regarding the FARC hits close to home and If you never been to colombia or know anyone who was affected by these killers maybe you shoulnt be so naive to speak about these things and these people who have been a bane to my country. Of course we all have different opinions, some more valid then others. When I was in Colombia as a child maybe ten years ago my family and I were returning from my Uncles farm house. My mother told all the kids to put our heads down because the FARC had recently made a strong offensive and were moving close to the Town where we were. My aunts husband, my uncle by marriage was captured and taken hostage by them when he was working as an engineer, they didnt kill him because his firm paid the hostage takers a million a piece for thier lives. Dont regard the the FARC as liberators, they are NARCO-TERRORIST who wouldnt think twice about killing you and your families if you didnt pay them their coca commission.

Are you a communist? If you were then you would understand that sacrifices have to be made. Sometimes voluntary, sometimes not. Regardless, what FARC did to your aunts husband was ethical and moral. If you can not see that, then you are just greedy and simple minded. Same goes for your aunt. And if you guys really wanted to be selfless then you would join farc. That way they wouldnt bother you.

[cumbia]

im not a communist, but granted personal feelings always outweight those of any political "ideology"

[Janus]

And if you guys really wanted to be selfless then you would join farc. That way they wouldnt bother you.
:lol: You sound like a FARC recruiter.


but granted personal feelings always outweight those of any political "ideology"
Well that's the problem right there.

[Xiao Banfa]

The comrades in Nepal has taken the revolution through a strategic hurdle.
The masses of Nepal want peace, they also mainly support the left.

I think the next elections in Nepal will see an interesting development that will have massive repercussions geopolitically.

[A SCANNER DARKLY]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 10, 2006 04:25 am
4. If many farmers in South America didn't grow coca they would starve to death.
How far can you to take that argument?

Drug dealers on the streets here always say if they didn't sell drugs they will starve, or their kids will starve.

[manic expression]

Originally posted by A SCANNER DARKLY+January 22, 2007 05:03 pm--> (A SCANNER DARKLY @ January 22, 2007 05:03 pm)
Compañ[email protected] 10, 2006 04:25 am
4. If many farmers in South America didn't grow coca they would starve to death.
How far can you want to take that argument?

Drug dealers on the streets here always say if they didn't sell drugs they will starve, or their kids will starve. [/b]
That claim often has a great deal of validity.

While saying that they or their kids would starve might be pushing it a bit, selling drugs is a way that people get money that they otherwise could not, and that money could very well be the difference between being able to go to a hospital or not (for instance).

[Prairie Fire]

:D

Harris0:

Here are a few pearls from Comrade Kappie here:


There are no good guys in the COlumbia situation. The FARC are drug dealers and terrorists that target civilians.


No actually...read it on the capitalist conspiracy which is Amnesty International
As a matter of fact, AI is a very capitalist/social democrat organization, and is fantastically slanted. AI is incredibly slanted, attacking any nation/organization that doesn't fall into the USA's good graces, with the occasional mediocre Liberal objections to the war in Iraq. Strike one.


As for Cuba: I'd like to see Cuba open up there democracy so any political parties or candidates can participate. So it is not unfairly influenced by foreign influences or the super rich, they should put in place very strict campaign finance laws.

What a coincidence, so would Bush :D . Do you honsetly believe in the power of parliamentary democracy?Read up on the Cuban democratic model. Strike two.



My guess is that most Columbians would prefer that the FARC's 30+ year revolution just go to hell so long as there is peace.
You are soooo bourgie. You can not even comprehend the poverty that the people of Latin America, especially Columbia, live in. Just because people arn't shooting at them, doesn't mean they arn't dieing.


Did it ever occur to you that that's not what the people want? That maybe they just want an end to the car bombings, the kidnappings, the drug killings, etc. That they're tired of the stupid "revolution"?

Oh wait, that wouldn't fit into your dumbass dogma. You're only capable of seeing the world in one way.

Did it ever occur to you that they are also tired of oppression, dire poverty, starvation and astronomical crime?

Oh wait, you're a social-democratic hippy who has no idea what any of these things are. You are also only capable of seeing hte world one way.


Did it ever occur to you that you don't actually know what you're talking about? At all?

From a Gallup (prestigious) poll conducted in Columbia.

93% of Columbians said they viewed the FARC disfavorably

Gallup polls and Amnesty international, cited as sources. Are you going to quote the CIA world factbook next? Strike Three, your a capitalist.

Janus:


Narco-terrorist is really a smear tactic used by the US and the Colombian gov. in order to discredit FARC. They do profit from the drug trade but so do gov. officials and the paramilitaries.

Well sure. There's a reason that the Mujahideen in Afghanistan and the Contras in Nicaragua were never called "Narco-Terrorists", even though they fit the profile nicely.

Rule of thumb: The US doesn't give a shit about human rights. As long as you understand this, it's simple to sift through all oftheir propaganda.

Companiero de Libertadad:


There's no such thing as "Soviet imperialism". The USSR wasn't economically exploiting exploiting anyone. The "export of capital" [from the USSR] never "acquired pronounced importance." There was no "overripe" capitalism in the USSR to give life to imperialism. Don't you uphold the theoretical contributions of Lenin? Go back and read what he wrote on the subject.

That's not quite true... Although it is not Imperialism in the true sense of the word, it has a lot of colonialist characteristics. Both Mao and Hoxha coined the term "Social Imperialism" to refer to nations that had collectivized economies and socialist structure, but colonialist ambitions.

[metalero]

Can we have a Mod to merge in this thread (http://www.revleft.com/index.php?showtopic=60799)? I already gave a comprehesive explanation there about the same subject.

[Honggweilo]

Originally posted by Harris0+--> (Harris0)http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/2886.htm [/b]
A bit outdated reply but, seriously, that really made me crap my pants from ROFL :lol:

Even for a social-dem he uses extremely reactionairy sources :rolleyes:

RavenBlade
Gallup polls and Amnesty international, cited as sources. Are you going to quote the CIA world factbook next? Strike Three, your a capitalist. The former quote probably awnsered that question :D