Community BBQ against the "bikini march", racism

[rioters bloc]

Please circulate widely:
_____________________________________________

In response to 'The Great Australian Bikini March' the Islamic Information and Support Centre have called for a community BBQ and mosque open day against racism and sexual assault from 1pm on Saturday December 9 at 19 Michael Street, Brunswick.

'she's not my grandma: aussie values, racism and sexual assault'

'The Great Australian Bikini March' was called as a protest against recent comments by the Sydney-based Sheik Hilaly regarding sexual assault. It was planned for Saturday December 9, the anniversary of the Cronulla riots. The official spokesperson for the march describes herself as a veteran bikini-wearing grandma. The key demands of the march are for the deportation of Sheik Hilaly, and also of Keysar Trad (Hilaly's spokesman), and Melbourne's Sheik Omran. As well, they are calling for 'urgent citizenship legislation' to 'weed out extremists.'

The march was to start at Clifton Park in Brunswick and end at the Islamic Information and Support Centre, which is headed by Sheik Omran, on Michael Street. According to the organisers, the march has been postponed to 'Australia Day' on the 26th January in the city.

White supremacist groups are still calling for people to march on December 9 regardless.

In language reminiscent of the Cronulla riots, the group has been calling on 'average Australians' to show up to demonstrate their support for women's safety, which, they argue, is under threat from 'extremist Muslim attitudes' towards women and sexual assault. They say "We must now stand together on this issue, regardless of what other issues we might have, to ensure Australia's wives, mothers, daughters and sisters feel safe in their own country."

(http://thegreataustralianbikinimarch.wikispaces.com/)

The march's organisers are attempting to perpetuate the myth that sexual violence is imported into Australia by Muslims and other 'foreigners'. Islamophobic portrayals of Muslim men as threats to the 'nation' and rapists of white women makes sexual violence within 'Australian' society invisible. In particular, it denies and excuses the large amounts of sexual and gendered violence endured by Muslim women at the hands of white men. The depressing reality is that rape is endemic to Australian society, and most rapes are perpetrated by family, friends and acquaintances. Even more depressing is the widespread denial and indifference that is the overwhelming response of 'Australians' to this epidemic. In the last ten years state and federal governments have massively defunded sexual assault services and education programs.

Sexual assault is often made the butt of jokes or even defended in public 'Aussie' culture. Prominent representatives of Australian society have often made particularly revealing comments about social attitudes to sexual assault.

Some comments you may not have heard:

'Some of the boys love a 'bun'. Gang banging is nothing new for our club or the rugby league.'
- A Canterbury Bulldogs player commenting on gang rape allegations made against team members.

'Our domestic violence policy could be called "the things that batter."
- Then Liberal Party Leader Alexander Downer's version of humour while promoting the Liberal Parties The Things That Matter campaign

'My belief is that this was not sex abuse. There was no suggestion of rape or anything like that. Quite the contrary, my information is that it was, rather, the other way around.'
- Peter Hollingsworth, then Australian Governor-General commenting on the case of a priest who had sexually abused a fourteen year old girl. The Governor-General felt it was appropriate to suggest that the teenage girl was the more likely sexual predator.

'If every man stopped the first time a woman said 'No,' the world would be a much less exciting place to live.'
- Australian Judge in 1996 rape case

To date none of these men have been deported.

The controversy around Hilaly's comments regarding sexual assault have been used as a justification by the group. However, their demands have nothing to do with preventing sexual violence, or challenging its causes. For instance, through education programs, or the restoration of the funding slashed for sexual assault support services. Rather the appeal to a defence of 'Australian values' is about intensifying the persecution of Muslims and glorifying a 'beach culture' which is deeply misogynistic and racist.

The Islamic Information and Support Centre have called for a community BBQ and mosque open day against racism and sexual assault from 1pm on Saturday December 9 at 19 Michael Street, Brunswick.

This leaflet was produced by 'Not my Grandma' and is not affiliated to the Islamic Information and Support Centre.

[Black Dagger]

I was just about to post this :P


It was planned for Saturday December 9, the anniversary of the Cronulla riots.

Ugh.

[anarchista feminista]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 05, 2006 11:30 pm
I was just about to post this :P


It was planned for Saturday December 9, the anniversary of the Cronulla riots.

Ugh.
wow. it doesn't seem that long ago! amazing. still so many problems due to that though. they always existed anyway i suppose. the riots were like the massive blow up.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Surely it would have been better if the Australian left had organised something which was independent of IISNA?

One would expect this kind of thing from the "Leninist left" ... but I'm surprised that the anarchist contingent isn't going to do something more, well, confrontational. Especially as, according to the article, sections of the Australian far-right will be rearing their heads.

But, maybe this is what anarchism in the 20th century is going to be ... bonfires and barbecues. In other words, an excuse for a piss up.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by AS+--> (AS)One would expect this kind of thing from the "Leninist left" ... but I'm surprised that the anarchist contingent isn't going to do something more, well, confrontational. Especially as, according to the article, sections of the Australian far-right will be rearing their heads.[/b]

What 'anarchist contingent' are you talking about? This event is not being organsied by anarchists or anarchist groups.

I dont understand the basis on which you are making your judgement.


AS

But, maybe this is what anarchism in the 20th century is going to be ... bonfires and barbecues. In other words, an excuse for a piss up.

Yeah, totally, you've hit the nail on the head right there :rolleyes:

How you've managed to link this event with anarchism specifically, and the anarchist movement generally is beyond me, but please i'd love to hear your insider info, since you seem to no more about the anarchist involvement with this event than i do!

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by Black Dagger
What 'anarchist contingent' are you talking about? This event is not being organsied by anarchists or anarchist groups.

Obviously...

But, it is being supported by the "anarchist contingent" ... you and rioters bloc seem to think it is something worth attending, in other words. Whether you're representative of the general thinking within the anarchist community in Australia, I don't really know. But my post worked on the assumption that you were representative of, at the very least, a sizeable section of it.

Therefore, if a section of the Australian left has decided to tail behind IISNA, then that is something worth analysing. Regardless of whether this event is being organised by left groups.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by AS+--> (AS)But, it is being supported by the "anarchist contingent" ... you and rioters bloc seem to think it is something worth attending, in other words.[/b]

Well neither of us live in melbourne so neither of us will be going...

Nor do i know any anarchists who ARE planning on going...

And neither of us expressed specific support for this event...

I planned to start a thread for this same event, that doesnt mean my politics fall behind it, nor any thread i start in this forum, i post news about ANY events that i have info for! See: the 'your rights at work' rally thread down this page - not an event i attended or supported politically, it was essentially a labour party promotional vote, i believe the slogan unveiled at the rally was 'protect your rights at work, vote in the next election' or something to that effect.

And if all this wasn't enough 'FYI', there will be an actual anarchist/antifa to oppose the 'bikini march' on the day... not sure why you didnt 'assume' that.


Originally posted by AS+--> (AS)
Whether you're representative of the general thinking within the anarchist community in Australia, I don't really know. [/b]

Obviously, and that's really where you probably should have taken note, and bit your lip, coz i found your response pretty fucking insulting

i.e.

'But, maybe this is what anarchism in the 20th century is going to be ... bonfires and barbecues. In other words, an excuse for a piss up.'

Not to mention completely ignorant (how could it not have been? Its not like you can read my mind or have understanding of what is happening in oz) and unjustified (see all above).


[email protected]

But my post worked on the assumption that you were representative of, at the very least, a sizeable section of it.

Well your post worked on ALOT of assumptions... really that's all you were working on... coz for obvious reasons you dont actually know anything about what's goin in australia, nor what my or anyones position is on this event and so forth, just a long series of (funnily enough, incorrect) assumptions.

Like i said, i really didnt see the point of your post, you clearly have no actual grasp of what is going on, and are lashing out blindly (and with no merit whatsoever), so what was the point? If it had been someone else i would have just assumed petty sectarianism/politics, but that is not something im used to experiencing from you.


AS

Therefore, if a section of the Australian left has decided to tail behind IISNA, then that is something worth analysing. Regardless of whether this event is being organised by left groups.

Here's the problem, the anarchist movement, nor any segment of the so-called 'left' in oz is, to my knowledge, 'tailing behind the IISNA', id never even heard of the IISNA until i read about this event.

[Amusing Scrotum]

I have to say, BD, I'm somewhat perplexed by the response you gave above.

I mean, lets recap a little here. You planned on posting an article about an events you're not going to attend ... and not going to support. And it's the question of quite why someone would do this, promote something they don't think is worthy of promotion, that has confused me.

Quite frankly, it seems a rather odd thing to do.

However, if you really were just posting for the sake of posting, then aside from the issue of why you think a revolutionary board is a suitable place for the promotion of an event that you don't think warrants any meaningful attention from revolutionaries, I suppose it means that I need to withdraw my criticisms of the anarchist community in Australia.

I, quite obviously, made a mistake in thinking that you were promoting this because you thought it was something worth promotion; and I was also mistaken in thinking that you represented a current within said anarchist community.

However, all that doesn't mean that my criticisms don't apply to those that will tail behind this event and its leaders ... and there will be some groups that do that, no doubt.


Originally posted by Black Dagger+--> (Black Dagger)And if all this wasn't enough 'FYI', there will be an actual anarchist/antifa to oppose the 'bikini march' on the day... not sure why you didnt 'assume' that.[/b]

Maybe, just maybe, because anarchists in Australia are posting about barbecues and not that...


Black Dagger
Not to mention completely ignorant (how could it not have been? Its not like you can read my mind or have understanding of what is happening in oz)...

The reference to bonfires, was a dig at London Class War.

And, to be honest, it doesn't take a fantastic understanding of the anarchist movement to realise that London Class War and London anarchists in general, aren't particularly useful. Probably the only people who think they are useful ... are themselves.

[bombeverything]

I mean, lets recap a little here. You planned on posting an article about an events you're not going to attend ... and not going to support. And it's the question of quite why someone would do this, promote something they don't think is worthy of promotion, that has confused me. Quite frankly, it seems a rather odd thing to do.

Are you for real? He was posting about it to spread the word to people who could actually attend. When did he say it was not worthy of promotion? Regarding this issue, you have no idea what your talking about.


Maybe, just maybe, because anarchists in Australia are posting about barbecues and not that...

Could this possibly be because of safety/security issues? I went to the barbecue, and yes anarchists attended. As Black Dagger mentioned, we did not organise this event, but went along for support. Your suggestion that this was all we had planned is absurd.

[bombeverything]

The reference to bonfires, was a dig at [b]London Class War.

And the reference about barbecues? Who exactly was that aimed at? For the record there was no alcohol at the event, so I don't understand how this could have been an 'excuse for a piss up'. Judging by your ignorant comments you have absolutely no idea what is going on in Australia. The only one who has an inflated sense of self importance is yourself.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by AS+--> (AS)You planned on posting an article about an events you're not going to attend ... and not going to support. [/b]

Right, i cant attend because its takin' place in another state. Im not going to 'support' the BBQ because id prefer a more militant response, that doesnt mean im against the BBQ completely.


Originally posted by AS+--> (AS)
And it's the question of quite why someone would do this, promote something they don't think is worthy of promotion, that has confused me.[/b]

Because people who live in melbourne might be interested?


Originally posted by AS

Quite frankly, it seems a rather odd thing to do.

Frankly i found your whole response to this thread odd! Regardless the perceived 'oddness' certainly doesnt justify your abuse (not sure what to call it...)


Originally posted by AS

then aside from the issue of why you think a revolutionary board is a suitable place for the promotion of an event that you don't think warrants any meaningful attention from revolutionaries

Like i said, people in melb might be interested in goin'... and i do think that this event warrants attention, i just dont think it should be 'our' response to the bikini march.


Originally posted by AS

I suppose it means that I need to withdraw my criticisms of the anarchist community in Australia.

Eh, you shouldnt have made them in the first place, since this thread has nothing to do with the anarchist movement in australia, it never did - that's something you pulled outta your arse - and i still dont know why! Talk about random, 'lol fuck y'all pisshead anarchists! Ya good for nothing!!!' talk about odd!


Originally posted by AS

However, all that doesn't mean that my criticisms don't apply to those that will tail behind this event and its leaders ... and there will be some groups that do that, no doubt.

Haha, like i said, you dont know much about the anarchist movement in australia, this isn't Socialist Alternative.


Originally posted by AS

Maybe, just maybe, because anarchists in Australia are posting about barbecues and not that...

I would have posted if i had the details, im not in melbourne (where this BBQ is goin down), so not involving in planning etc. and hadnt received confirmed stuff i could post, sorry?


[email protected]
The reference to bonfires, was a dig at London Class War.

Ok? My response had nothing to do with your bonfire reference, rather your dig about 'piss ups'.


AS

And, to be honest, it doesn't take a fantastic understanding of the anarchist movement to realise that London Class War and London anarchists in general, aren't particularly useful. Probably the only people who think they are useful ... are themselves.

Again... ok???

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by bombeverything+--> (bombeverything)When did he say it was not worthy of promotion?[/b]

"And neither of us expressed specific support for this event...

I planned to start a thread for this same event, that doesnt mean my politics fall behind it, nor any thread i start in this forum, i post news about ANY events that i have info for! See: the 'your rights at work' rally thread down this page - not an event i attended or supported politically, it was essentially a labour party promotional vote, i believe the slogan unveiled at the rally was 'protect your rights at work, vote in the next election' or something to that effect."

He didn't "express specific support for this event" and, in fact, in order to explain his actions, made a comparison with another event. An event that, again, he didn't "support politically".

That, to me anyway, kinda' suggests that Black Dagger doesn't consider this something "worthy of promotion". In the normal sense of that phrase, that is ... where people promote something they think is worth attending and supporting.


Originally posted by bombeverything+--> (bombeverything)Could this possibly be because of safety/security issues?[/b]

Not really. Posting a general "call out" doesn't have any real "safety/security issues".


Originally posted by bombeverything
As Black Dagger mentioned, we did not organise this event, but went along for support.

Okay then. But why did you decide to "support" the actions of a petty-bourgeois sect, instead of focusing exclusively on some kind of autonomous action?


Originally posted by bombeverything
For the record there was no alcohol at the event, so I don't understand how this could have been an 'excuse for a piss up'.

That's probably even more depressing.

The only half decent reason I can see for attending this event, to have a laugh and get pissed, didn't even factor into the equation. So why did you still end up going?

Surely you realise the dangers of reinforcing the dominance of petty-bourgeois "community leaders" over a working class community ... yet you seem willing to give underhanded support to their claims of leadership. Why?

"The only half decent reason", by the way, is also the only half decent recent I can see for someone wanting to attend one of Class War's "look at me, I are a revolutionary" events. And I've no problem with the folks from Class War having a piss up ... I just think they should be a bit more honest about their intentions and junk the political cover for it.


Black [email protected]
Because people who live in melbourne might be interested?

Possibly. But you've said already that you don't really think this whole thing was that great, so why not say so when you first posted? All you had to say was what you just said -- "Im not going to 'support' the BBQ because id prefer a more militant response".

Because without that kind of disclaimer, it just appears that you think this kind of thing is an answer ... perhaps even "the answer".


Black Dagger
...since this thread has nothing to do with the anarchist movement in australia, it never did...

Well, it does now.

"I went to the barbecue, and yes anarchists attended." -- bombeverything.

[Folk The System]

what was the quote about rape tha thad the bikini marchers so up in arms anyways?

[bombeverything]

Okay then. But why did you decide to "support" the actions of a petty-bourgeois sect, instead of focusing exclusively on some kind of autonomous action?

I attended the barbecue because I felt that it was important to support the local community incase any fascists did decide to show up. That is, to be wherever they were. This was the reason that most people went, and surely that is reason enough to attend. This was not what we "had planned", however. That is, we didn't all "decide" that we were going to go to the barbecue. Other actions were planned.


Not really. Posting a general "call out" doesn't have any real "safety/security issues".

Possibly, but there were plans that were followed through. I don't think a call out was necessary given that there was only a slim chance that they would front.


The only half decent reason I can see for attending this event, to have a laugh and get pissed, didn't even factor into the equation. So why did you still end up going?

Surely you realise the dangers of reinforcing the dominance of petty-bourgeois "community leaders" over a working class community ... yet you seem willing to give underhanded support to their claims of leadership. Why?

Ofcourse, but I fail to see how opposing racism by attending a community event constitutes politically "supporting" community leaders over the working class community. We were there to oppose the racism which divides the working class, not to provide political support to community elites. And as mentioned many times, a few of us ended up attending, but this what not what we had planned.


Well, it does now.

"I went to the barbecue, and yes anarchists attended." -- bombeverything.

So what?

[Severian]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 08, 2006 06:01 am
Well your post worked on ALOT of assumptions... really that's all you were working on... coz for obvious reasons you dont actually know anything about what's goin in australia, nor what my or anyones position is on this event and so forth, just a long series of (funnily enough, incorrect) assumptions.

Like i said, i really didnt see the point of your post, you clearly have no actual grasp of what is going on, and are lashing out blindly (and with no merit whatsoever), so what was the point? If it had been someone else i would have just assumed petty sectarianism/politics, but that is not something im used to experiencing from you.
What are you talking about? When has AS posted anything but petty pseudo-politics? When has he worked on anything but unfounded assumptions? Since he has no real-world political experience - and rejects almost all real-world political activity as "reformism" - what else could he work on?

Maybe you mean that you're not used to him opposing anarchism for the sake of opposing anarchism? But that's only one kind of pettiness.

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by bombeverything+--> (bombeverything)I attended the barbecue because I felt that it was important to support the local community incase any fascists did decide to show up.[/b]

Fair enough; that certainly answers my question regarding the reason why you'd attend. (And, to be honest, I'd not thought of that angle. Probably because there'd be no mention of it until now ... just talk of having a barbecue.)

Out of interest, did you make it clear that your presence there was because you wanted to help defend working class communities from fascist threats? Or did you just sit down and have a bite to eat?


bombeverything
Ofcourse, but I fail to see how opposing racism by attending a community event constitutes politically "supporting" community leaders over the working class community.

It entirely depends on the stated goal of the action.

If, as you say, you had an anti-fascist goal in mind, then of course it's not going to look like you're politically supporting anyone. It's going to look like what it is -- community defence.

However, as I've mentioned, there was no talk of this earlier in the thread. Instead, the basic message seemed to be for people to come and have a nice barbecue organised by those nice folks in the IISNA ... and, by extension, fall behind the official IISNA campaign on this issue.

That, without a doubt, represents something completely different.
_ _ _ _ _

I see Severian's decided to chime in. He's not contributed anything to the debate, so there's really nothing worth responding to; but he has got one thing kinda' right, I've never attended an SWP shindig. Shame on me, I suppose. :lol:

[Amusing Scrotum]

Originally posted by Severian
When has AS posted anything but petty pseudo-politics?

This one Tuesday, last June, I made two whole posts that weren't "petty pseudo-politics". After doing that though, my head hurt; so I've not done it since.

But, as the saying goes, life sucks ... and then you die.

[bombeverything]

Just saw this post.


Out of interest, did you make it clear that your presence there was because you wanted to help defend working class communities from fascist threats? Or did you just sit down and have a bite to eat?

Yes. A number of us highlighted this when we met people, and later when we were interviewed. We were constantly asked for our reasons for being there. But I must admit that I did enjoy the food ;)


It entirely depends on the stated goal of the action.

If, as you say, you had an anti-fascist goal in mind, then of course it's not going to look like you're politically supporting anyone. It's going to look like what it is -- community defence.However, as I've mentioned, there was no talk of this earlier in the thread. Instead, the basic message seemed to be for people to come and have a nice barbecue organised by those nice folks in the IISNA ... and, by extension, fall behind the official IISNA campaign on this issue.

That, without a doubt, represents something completely different.

Ok, I assumed that the aim had been stated clearly and/or was obvious.