Functionalism vs. Communism

[Wozzeck]

Perhaps as we try and understand what is so appealing about Communism, we can arrive at what it actaully is that we quest for? I believe it is the motivation to find 'Function' in the world, that makes us leftists. The craving for an order so profound that it gives birth to a completely functional , if not mechanical organization. A working way past down from generation to generation, whose overall goal is distinquishing what is just. It truely isn't Communism you crave, but 'Divine Function', (Something greater then yourself that you can all be comforted by). The logic behind all rightiousness.

[Aurora]

:lol: what are you on about!You sound like that spiritual liberal hippy who always lost arguments with LSD and ComradeRed.

[MrDoom]

WTF?

If you're going to say something, make sure it means something.

Babbling philosophers, LOL.

[More Fire for the People]

Williams James called, he wants his mysticism back.

[Wozzeck]

There is no mysticism about it. If you are a logical human being, you wish to have a part in a greater function. Yes or No? I try to find the sorce of why a Communist is the way he is and you'll ridicule me. If you would listen to what I said, and take out the 'preechy' aspect, you might fucking agree!

[Pow R. Toc H.]

Your right! What we really thirst for is the belief and trust in a higher power. Thanks for enlightening us. Now we can stop being leftists and be right-wing christians. Praise Jesus!

[Zero]

As a general warning, most people don't view Social Theologians as serious individuals; here or in the really real world either. Though I quite enjoy them, they always seem to have the most intresting and positive (as well as skewed) theories of progress.


Originally posted by "Wozzeck"+--> ("Wozzeck")Perhaps as we try and understand what is so appealing about Communism, we can arrive at what it actaully is that we quest for?[/b]Theres very little deep seated or otherwise "hidden" emotion driving the Communist bloc. Other than saying it is a general love of Humanity; a positive outlook on the so-called "Human Nature"; and a general class-analysis of Free-Market vs Free-Will.

I am sure there are those who hang on to the selfish aspects of a Communist lifestyle (producing at 100% abundance, sustainable development, anti-coercive hierarchtical society) but I would say that 90% are motivated by a love of Humanity, and a hate of those who exploit it.


Originally posted by "Wozzeck"+--> ("Wozzeck")I believe it is the motivation to find 'Function' in the world, that makes us leftists. The craving for an order so profound that it gives birth to a completely functional , if not mechanical organization. A working way past down from generation to generation, whose overall goal is distinquishing what is just.[/b]"Function" is not a soul property of the left. In fact for the most part it is the most dominate theory of the right. Hitlerism is about progress without Humanity. NeoClassical-Liberalism is about functionality of a corporate takeover of the worlds resources; to be allocated as needed in a "functional" and progress-driven anti-moral society; 1984 without the shiney guns and nice living conditions >.>

We all have different notions of functionality on the Left. I invision a technological boon as automation fills the jobs of those un-wanted jobs through a process of Libertarian Socialism, where under a planned economy we have the proper resources and skilled labor to construct the needed infrastructure for a Technocratic method of meterial distribtuion. Thus keeping a high level of industry, technology, energy, and environmental conciousness. Though who am I to write the future huh? That is our collective job. :)


"Wozzeck"@
The craving for an order so profound that it gives birth to a completely functional , if not mechanical organization. A working way past down from generation to generation, whose overall goal is distinquishing what is just.While it is true that the majority of the leftovers from the 60s, and the primitivist movements distinguish that a just and moral society, as well as a just and moral path to this future society is more favorable than any existing system, or path to a future society, the broader global justice movement isn't concerned primaraly for that.

Communism as a movement is a broader convergence of social justice, and economic fairness. Reguardless of your camp, these are the forces that motivate most Marxists (as well as most Anarchists as well, not counting Individualists. But they don't matter anyway.) To say that a Marxist is only concerned with "what is just" is just as wide as saying the soul motivation of a Capitalist is for "what is not just". There are many many other motivations, some social, some personal, some distinguished, some irrational.


"Wozzeck"
It truely isn't Communism you crave, but 'Divine Function', (Something greater then yourself that you can all be comforted by). The logic behind all rightiousness.I don't think I have the motivation to even approach this conclusion. I'm hungry, and I'm tired. I've already given a critique of your foundational beliefs, so disproving this is irrelevent.

[Ol' Dirty]

What a load of utter tripe. There is no "greater function". There is no so-called "Divine Providence" that is pulling strings in the cosmos. If you really think that you don't copntrol over your life, you are just another cog. Give it up.

[blueeyedboy]

Muigwithania, I don't beleive that we are in control of our own lives, and we are just cogs, but intelligent ones. I beleive we are socially determined in most things in life. For example, I go to college, maybe it is my free will, but I disagree. It is because society has taught me that going to college is potentially more productive than just getting a crappy manual job. It is society which has told me that manual jobs are crappy. Everything for me basically comes down to society. Don't reply saying that I am weak for bowing down to societal orders, because I am not a weak person. Everyone is socially ordered around in some way. Society is telling us that there needs to be a change to the current society in which we live in. It is true though, that individualism has created society, but society has overtook individuals. If anything, individualism has created all the injustices we see in the world today. A senior executive of a giant corporation saying that production should move out globally, thereby hurting the environment.

All the evidence points to society determining most things in life.

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2006 08:21 pm
Perhaps as we try and understand what is so appealing about Communism, we can arrive at what it actaully is that we quest for? I believe it is the motivation to find 'Function' in the world, that makes us leftists. The craving for an order so profound that it gives birth to a completely functional , if not mechanical organization. A working way past down from generation to generation, whose overall goal is distinquishing what is just. It truely isn't Communism you crave, but 'Divine Function', (Something greater then yourself that you can all be comforted by). The logic behind all rightiousness.
You are right that it sometimes feels that communists dream about a static order, a light in the end of the tunnel and a paradise on earth. I certainly do not hope that social conflicts end, since that is what makes us growing and makes us better.

The dream point is the state in the future where each human being could create her own universe and we have tamed energy and matter completely. :D

[Ol' Dirty]

Muigwithania, I don't beleive that we are in control of our own lives, and we are just cogs, but intelligent ones.

Who's cogs? :huh:


I beleive we are socially determined in most things in life.

Although we are limited to a certain degree, saying that we are just inteligent cogs is just a bunch of bullshit, to be quite frank.


For example, I go to college, maybe it is my free will, but I disagree. It is because society has taught me that going to college is potentially more productive than just getting a crappy manual job. It is society which has told me that manual jobs are crappy. Everything for me basically comes down to society.

Society: GET ME A SODA!

blueeyedboy: Yes sir, right away.

Do you understand how foolish that sounds? You are treating society like a person, and, quite eerily, you are treating it like a person that controls your life!


Don't reply saying that I am weak for bowing down to societal orders, because I am not a weak person.

That is an utterly disillusioned statement to make. You make choices for yourself. You have a mind, and you are an individual. Don't opt out by saying "society is making my choices for me." Take some responsibility for your actions, okay?

Besides, I'm not telling you you're weak, I'm telling you that you are gravely misinformed.


Everyone is socially ordered around in some way.

Just because you are being coerced doesn't mean that there is some fucking Flying Spagetthi Monster ordering you around. You have the coice between conforming and not conforming, whether you like it or not. If ysomeone pulls a gun to your head and says "show me the money," you can say no.

[Pow R. Toc H.]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 09:26 pm
If ysomeone pulls a gun to your head and says "show me the money," you can say no.
Yeah and than you can get shot in dome. :lol:

Anyways, In no way does society controll your life. It may influence the choices you make but how you live your life mainly comes down to what you want to do and who you are. Society might tell me going to college is important but I can say fuck society. Society also tells me not to drink until Im 21 but again I can say fuck society.

[Ol' Dirty]

Originally posted by The Crying Orc+January 01, 2007 11:58 pm--> (The Crying Orc @ January 01, 2007 11:58 pm)

Anyways, In no way does society controll your life. It may influence the choices you make but how you live your life mainly comes down to what you want to do and who you are. Society might tell me going to college is important but I can say fuck society. Society also tells me not to drink until Im 21 but again I can say fuck society. [/b]

Which is exactly why determinism is a bunch of bullshit.


[email protected] 30, 2006 09:26 pm
If ysomeone pulls a gun to your head and says "show me the money," you can say no.

Yeah and than you can get shot in dome. :lol:

Hey, 'never said it was a good idea, but you can do it, right? :D

[Pow R. Toc H.]

i know man. This guy is not very good at debating.