Juche

[Whitten]

Ok, so my question to those who support Juche, or those who are willing to give a reasonable response, is is Juche democratic? I am aware that (in theory) he North Korean constitution allows multiple parties to take part in the political process. I also understand that these parties are supposed to cooperate for the good of the people, not compete for power or divide the country. How does tyhis work in theory and in practice? There are elections, but do any parties other than the Korean Workers Party stand candidates? And can independent candidates stand? Or those representing trade unions?

Next what level of participation does the average worker get in the political process, and the running of the economy? Is it just a traditional command economy in which the state (presumable elected by the people) decides how things are run? Or is there a certain level of worker council cooperation and decision making.

Finally do you believe North Korea, now, under Kim Jung Il, remains true to the Juche ideology? I remember one member of Kim Il Sung's government defecting to the south claiming Kim Jung Il had turned his back on real Juche. Do any of you believe that is the case?

[Demogorgon]

No, it is totalitarian. There is little else you can say about it. It is essentially feudalism altered to assume an even greater control over people's lives. How much say does the average worker have in the system? None. If they speak up, they get shot. Of course if they don't they just starve to death, but that's another story.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

That's South Korea Demo.

As for N. Korea. We really don't know much. It is isolated and even journalists can't go there. Most of what we know comes from an "Americanized" perspective.

As for Kim Jong-Il defying the Juche ideology, yes, he is. He is nothing like his father. Just look at his life-style: He spends the entire North Korean tresury on Italian luxury cars, French Cognac, Spanish wines, and a variety of other luxuries. Unlike other socialist states, N. Koreans do not benefit from the socialized economy like in Cuba, or at least that's what we're told...

[( R )evolution]

As Demogorgon said, N. Korea now is more like a fuedalstic nation then anything else. It is built up to be self-sufficent with no real need for trade. The workers have no say, and as Demogorgon said they will get shot if they do. But just as leftyhenry said we should be careful of being critical of N. Korea because much of the information that is avabile is very distorted and comes from the mouth of the beast (america)

edit:I cant spell

[The Author]

Before actually passing judgment on what Juche is, it would be wise to get an idea of what the theory is in question, and what has been practiced in the DPRK. At this time, unfortunately, I do not have extensive knowledge about the DPRK, but these sources might be helpful.

There is a book titled North Korea: Another Country by Bruce Cumings. Although it has been some time since I read this book (a year, exactly), Cumings gives the reader information on Korean life, the Korean War, U.S. government propaganda against the DPRK, etc. which caught my attention.

Then there is the website, "Korea is One"

http://www.korea-is-one.org/rubrique.php3?id_rubrique=5

"Kimsoft"

http://www.kimsoft.com/dprk.htm

Two websites on the Juche theory:

Juche Idea Study Group of England (http://www.korea-dpr.com/users/jisge/)

Study of the Juche Idea (http://www.cnet-ta.ne.jp/juche/defaulte.htm)

and finally, some writings by Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il, which are available on the Net.

Kim Il Sung Works:

http://www.kancc.org/english/board/board.p...g_code=6&mnum=6 (http://www.kancc.org/english/board/board.php?code=en_kis&main_img_code=6&mnum=6)

Kim Jong Il Works:

http://www.kancc.org/english/board/board.p...g_code=6&mnum=6 (http://www.kancc.org/english/board/board.php?code=en_kji&main_img_code=6&mnum=6)


I think if we read some of those materials, at least we might develop a better idea of what Juche is in theory and what has been practiced in the DPRK.

[Prairie Fire]

Wow, at the very least I expected Henry to defend North Korea.

I won't critique on Juche, but I will defend the DPRK against some of this slander.

Demo, shut the fuck up. You don't know anything about the DPRK ,you cappie bastard.

When I was in Venezuela in 2005, there was at least two hundred North koreans there for the 16th World festival of Youth Students. Now, if the DPRK is as bad as you say it is, why did Kim Jong Il let so many of his citizens go overseas, where he couldn't keep an eye on them or monitor what they are saying to foriegners?


The DPRK is nowhere close to being as "Isolated" as the cappie media, and some communists, claim. There is a plane that leaves for Pyongyang every day from Beijing international airport. They have a delegation in the UN. Quit refering to the DPRK as though it is some sort of mysterious forbidden land, which no traveller has ever returned from.

As for the system in North Korea, if things we're really fucked up, you would have seen some sort of action against the government. I mean, dictators like Batista, Pinochet, Idi amin and others all faced SOME kind of popular resistance.
Food for thought.

[Demogorgon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 02:02 am
Wow, at the very least I expected Henry to defend North Korea.

I won't critique on Juche, but I will defend the DPRK against some of this slander.

Demo, shut the fuck up. You don't know anything about the DPRK ,you cappie bastard.

When I was in Venezuela in 2005, there was at least two hundred North koreans there for the 16th World festival of Youth Students. Now, if the DPRK is as bad as you say it is, why did Kim Jong Il let so many of his citizens go overseas, where he couldn't keep an eye on them or monitor what they are saying to foriegners?


The DPRK is nowhere close to being as "Isolated" as the cappie media, and some communists, claim. There is a plane that leaves for Pyongyang every day from Beijing international airport. They have a delegation in the UN. Quit refering to the DPRK as though it is some sort of mysterious forbidden land, which no traveller has ever returned from.

As for the system in North Korea, if things we're really fucked up, you would have seen some sort of action against the government. I mean, dictators like Batista, Pinochet, Idi amin and others all faced SOME kind of popular resistance.
Food for thought.
I am a capitalist because I won't defend one of the worst examples of totalitarianism ever seen?

You are saying things must be good because there is no action against the government? Hmm, I wonder why that is? Could it be because such tight control is exercised over the people that it is impossible? Or maybe because the people are too busy wondering where the next meal will come from? You do know the average weight of a North Korean soldier is 95 pounds don't you? And they are meant to be the best fed part of the population (apart from the ruling classes of course). Hell even the regime itself admits around two milion people are at the point of starvation. That is why it constantly begs for food from abroad.

Of course, there is resistance. There are a steady wave of defectors escaping into China and South Korea and many trying to go further afield. Full of stories about the forced labour camps and all the people shot without trial for the simplest of offences. Ever seen any of the recordings smuggled out of North Korea? They don't make for pretty viewing.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Wow, at the very least I expected Henry to defend North Korea.

I uphold Kim Il Sung as a leader and someone who did something for his people but c'mon Kim Jong Il is nothing like his father.


I am a capitalist because I won't defend one of the worst examples of totalitarianism ever seen?

No you are a capitalist because you are a social democrat.

[Demogorgon]

Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 04:32 pm
No you are a capitalist because you are a social democrat.
Strange that I was previously unaware of that fact. Odd strangers on the internet know my political views better than me.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by RavenBlade+--> (RavenBlade)As for the system in North Korea, if things we're really fucked up, you would have seen some sort of action against the government. I mean, dictators like Batista, Pinochet, Idi amin and others all faced SOME kind of popular resistance.
Food for thought.[/b]

That is very fallacious to say the least.

A highly militarised dictatorship tends to discourage 'action' against the goverment doesn't it? Then again, so does the criminalisation of 'action' against the government!

Moreover, none of the dictators you mention ever had anything approaching the entrenched power and control over society that the state in the DPRK enjoys; as you've unintentionally made clear in your response.


Originally posted by RavenBlade+--> (RavenBlade)]The DPRK is nowhere close to being as "Isolated" as the cappie media, and some communists, claim. There is a plane that leaves for Pyongyang every day from Beijing international airport.[/b]

I'm sorry but a single flight each day to another dictatorship doesn't count for much.

How many ordinary citizens of the DPRK ever go beyond the borders of the DPRK or China? Hmm? How can a state be socialist if the state restricts the peoples freedom of movement?


[email protected]
]
Quit refering to the DPRK as though it is some sort of mysterious forbidden land, which no traveller has ever returned from.

Travellers return of course, it's just that the government has an iron grip on the nations borders, which makes travel into the country a bit difficult, and travel out of the country... well DPRK's citizens dont really have that ability now do they? The wonders of DPRK socialism.


RavenBlade
]
As for the system in North Korea, if things we're really fucked up

Wait, so you dont think that the system in the DPRK is 'fucked up'?

Do you think it's a socialist society?

[The Advent of Anarchy]

The Juche idea would work, but it needs to give up on Songun.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Demogorgon+December 03, 2006 05:06 pm--> (Demogorgon @ December 03, 2006 05:06 pm)
[email protected] 03, 2006 04:32 pm
No you are a capitalist because you are a social democrat.
Strange that I was previously unaware of that fact. Odd strangers on the internet know my political views better than me. [/b]
Yeah well that's the impression you give; reformism etc