The Kibbutzim of Israel

[Inviction]

Has anyone here besides me heard of the Israeli kibbutzim? Wouldn't this be a counter-example of a place where socialism has worked in the real world, where common ownership of the means of production has not produced a failure as it has, when Marx' message was twisted badly, in Stalinist Russia and Maoist China?

[Red October]

my family has friends and contacts on the kibbutzes, and they seem to be pretty good, though they certainly have their share of problems. from what i hear, they has a major problem with the youth leaving the kibbutzes for the city to make money and some financial problems, though this is just word of mouth.

[Janus]

One problem with the kibbutz movement is that it has always depended on government subsidies to function properly and expand. And the main problem with it now is that it is becoming less and less collectivist and more capitalist with its sponsorship of wage labor, entrepeneurship, and private money/accounts.

[Phalanx]

When Israel had just existed as a state for a few years, people flocked to kibbutzes. These were tough times and the state of Israel was very poor. The funny thing is, now that Israel is supposedly reaping the benefits of capitalism, the kibbutz is little more than a geriatric community.

[Severian]

Besides, Israeli agriculture has always been based on the exploitation of Palestinian labor. Drive the native peasantry off the land, then let some of commute from the West Bank/Gaza as cheap labor. Now that "security" requires excluding a lot of Palestinian workers, they're often replaced by Thai and other "guest workers".

Isn't that true of the kibbutzim as well? In any case, they're certainly failing as others have commented. They combine the weaknesses of utopian socialism and Zionism.

[Leo]

Has anyone here besides me heard of the Israeli kibbutzim?

I heard it was a dead idea. Locals got desk jobs and went to the big cities when Thai immigrants did the actual work.