Website on Informants

[BreadBros]

I just saw this news article: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20061201/D8LNOAMG0.html on a website called "WhosARat". Basically a former drug dealer started this website where anyone who registers can name people who testified as witnesses in court cases against them as well as name federal informants or agents (although interestingly, you cant post pictures of federal agents, but you can post pictures of civilians who testify in criminal cases). Its essentially an online manifestation of that "Stop Snitching" t-shirt phenomenon where people who testify in court are threatened with death or violence.


Originally posted by MyWay
Federal prosecutors say the site was set up to encourage violence, and federal judges around the country were recently warned that witnesses in their courtrooms may be profiled online.

"My concern is making sure cooperators are adequately protected from retaliation," said Chief Judge Thomas Hogan, who alerted other judges in Washington's federal courthouse. He said he learned about the site from a federal judge in Maine.

The Web site is the latest unabashedly public effort to identify witnesses or discourage helping police. "Stop Snitching" T-shirts have been sold in cities around the country and popular hip-hop lyrics disparage or threaten people who help police.

In 2004, NBA star Carmelo Anthony appeared in an underground Baltimore DVD that warned people they could be killed for cooperating with police. Anthony has said he was not aware of the DVD's message.


Sean Bucci, a former Boston-area disc jockey, set up WhosaRat.com after federal prosecutors charged him with selling marijuana in bulk from his house. Bucci is under house arrest awaiting trial and could not be reached, but a WhosaRat spokesman identifying himself as Anthony Capone said the site is a resource for criminal defendants and does not condone violence.

"If people got hurt or killed, it's kind of on them. They knew the dangers of becoming an informant," Capone said. "We'd feel bad, don't get me wrong, but things happen to people. If they decide to become an informant, with or without the Web site, that's a possibility."


Prosecutors in Boston have discussed whether WhosaRat is protected as free speech but have not moved to shut it down. In 2004, an Alabama federal judge ruled that a defendant had the right to run a Web site that included witness information in the form of "wanted" posters.

Earlier this month, federal judges from Minnesota and Utah urged their colleagues to be careful about how much information about witnesses is released in public files, noting that they could end up on WhosaRat.

I was wondering what all of you think. I know some of you are very anti-police and anti-government and probably see this website as being a great tool or something. Personally I find this and the whole "stop snitching" phenomenon to be utterly disgusting. Most of the time the people being targetted here are working class people who happen to testify against some local criminal. I fail to see what is progressive about some multi-millionaire basketball player and his drug dealer cronies warning working-class people that they will be killed if they testify against them in some court proceeding, but I'm interested in what the rest of you think...

[h&s]

This is a horrible idea. Intimidating people is no way to get anything done at all. Even for cases where the rats are in the wrong intimidation and threats of violence should not be used ever - you can not and should not force people to do the right thing.

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by h&[email protected] 01, 2006 09:27 am
This is a horrible idea. Intimidating people is no way to get anything done at all. Even for cases where the rats are in the wrong intimidation and threats of violence should not be used ever - you can not and should not force people to do the right thing.
snitches shouldnt get any peace, they are ussually the ones whos testimony gets people locked up.

[BreadBros]

Originally posted by Organic Revolution+December 01, 2006 03:35 pm--> (Organic Revolution @ December 01, 2006 03:35 pm)
h&[email protected] 01, 2006 09:27 am
This is a horrible idea. Intimidating people is no way to get anything done at all. Even for cases where the rats are in the wrong intimidation and threats of violence should not be used ever - you can not and should not force people to do the right thing.
snitches shouldnt get any peace, they are ussually the ones whos testimony gets people locked up. [/b]
How do you reconcile this viewpoint with leftism? In the United States the overwhelming majority of people who testify as witnesses in cases to get people locked up are working class. Whereas the majority of criminals are not exactly progressive (usually sexist, often racist, capitalist mindstate). I live in a somewhat "rough" neighborhood. The other day as I was waiting for a friend at the bus stop a local "pimp" behind me was arguing with some woman who was angry because the guy was exploiting some teenage relative of hers. You're telling me that if that woman (who seemed to be working class by all appearances/speech) were to testify in court to get the pimp locked up, she would deserve to "not get any peace" (by which I presume you mean have physical violence acted against her) whereas the sexist, exploitative pimp should be free? Do you support Carmelo Anthony (a multi-millionaire NBA superstar) threatening people with physical violence?

[Organic Revolution]

well, im speaking from the point of political snitches, not prostitutes snitching on there pimps. i probably should have clarified that.

[BreadBros]

Originally posted by Organic [email protected] 01, 2006 04:31 pm
well, im speaking from the point of political snitches, not prostitutes snitching on there pimps. i probably should have clarified that.
OK, did you actually read my post or the article I linked to? It has nothing to do with political snitches and aren't mentioned at all in either, so I'm not sure why you would comment on that...

[Organic Revolution]

its about snitches in general

[bolshevik butcher]

What's wrong with informing in some crinimal cases. I don't have a problem with poeple acting as witnesses to convict a rapist or a murderer. Being a 'scab' is clearly a different matter altogether but that is not what this website was set up to deal with.

[BreadBros]

Originally posted by Organic [email protected] 01, 2006 05:48 pm
its about snitches in general
:blink: No its not...its very specifically about informants and witnesses in criminal cases in US courts, it doesn't mention "snitches" in any sense outside of that, what in the article/post makes you think its about "snitches in general"?

[h&s]

Originally posted by Organic Revolution+December 01, 2006 03:35 pm--> (Organic Revolution @ December 01, 2006 03:35 pm)
h&[email protected] 01, 2006 09:27 am
This is a horrible idea. Intimidating people is no way to get anything done at all. Even for cases where the rats are in the wrong intimidation and threats of violence should not be used ever - you can not and should not force people to do the right thing.
snitches shouldnt get any peace, they are ussually the ones whos testimony gets people locked up. [/b]
Yeah, and a lot of people deserve to be locked up.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

No its not...its very specifically about informants and witnesses in criminal cases in US courts

... which most times are folks who got busted and took a deal to snitch in exchange for their freedom.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

Yeah, and a lot of people deserve to be locked up.

Yeah, like the police and prison guards.

[bcbm]

How do you reconcile this viewpoint with leftism?

How does locking more people up and crowding the prisons run by the bourgeoisie reconcile with "leftism?" So long as class society exists there will be criminal elements, some of them tolerable and others not so much, and aiding the people who are ultimately more destructive to the dispossessed (the police, the state) isn't going to improve anything. One con-man off the street in exchange for the strengthening of police ties and connections within a neighborhood seems like a bad deal. Furthermore, the selective picking and choosing about when it is okay to support the prison system is absurd; the prisons must be destroyed, period and we should not aid the scum who lock people up, nor support individuals doing so.

I can understand why some people may be motivated to involve the police and become snitches, but the under-classes relying on the pigs for justice is naive and misguided. We need to work towards autonomous community structures for dealing with these issues, and there certainly is precedent for such things.

[loveme4whoiam]

So are you saying we should support, nay, encourage criminals? Yes, of course we should rely on our own communities to look after each other, but if you are truly saying that we should let a proven rapist or murderer walk around instead of getting him removed from that community then thats pretty fucked-up IMO.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2006 08:35 am
So are you saying we should support, nay, encourage criminals?
No, I'm saying we should not support, nay, encourage the police and the government in their efforts to infiltrate and further break down under-class areas.


Yes, of course we should rely on our own communities to look after each other, but if you are truly saying that we should let a proven rapist or murderer walk around instead of getting him removed from that community then thats pretty fucked-up IMO.

If the only way you can conceptualize dealing with a rapist or murderer is to bring in the pigs and throw him in prison, I'm worried. Furthermore, the proven murderers and rapists are the ones who will continue to walk around- they're the ones the snitches report to.

[h&s]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 02, 2006 12:55 pm

Yeah, and a lot of people deserve to be locked up.

Yeah, like the police and prison guards.
Yeah, I'm not going to say all police and prison guards, but I do agree with you on that point. The point in question though is that there are other people out there who, even in a post-revolutionary society whatever that entails, would deserve to be locked up. So to intimidate people who are trying to get rid of the people that aren't wanted is just wrong.

I strongly believe in the idea that a community should be able to police itself, but if anything attacking grasses leads us further way from that happening. This is a form of vigilantism and to allow it now does not lead to a bright future as far as justice is concerned. A community should not be attacking itself by bothering with those who 'collaborate' with the current system.
We should be working on making our own justice system so that we can cast aside the old, not attacking the old and the working class people who support it in the hope a new one will come from it.

[bcbm]

The point in question though is that there are other people out there who, even in a post-revolutionary society whatever that entails, would deserve to be locked up.

No.


I strongly believe in the idea that a community should be able to police itself, but if anything attacking grasses leads us further way from that happening. This is a form of vigilantism and to allow it now does not lead to a bright future as far as justice is concerned. A community should not be attacking itself by bothering with those who 'collaborate' with the current system.

Like I said, I can understand why some individuals turn to the police but ultimately that decision is detrimental to the community as a whole in the long run and I think we should do our best to dissuade people from turning to the police, which will best be achieved by making other options viable, a point I agree upon.

[Jazzratt]

Fuck this, as BreadBros pointed out a lot of the witnesses that testify against these criminals are ordinary working class people. THis kind of thing is simply the lumpenproletariat pressuring the proletariat and is therefore disgusting.

[BreadBros]

How does locking more people up and crowding the prisons run by the bourgeoisie reconcile with "leftism?" So long as class society exists there will be criminal elements, some of them tolerable and others not so much, and aiding the people who are ultimately more destructive to the dispossessed (the police, the state) isn't going to improve anything. One con-man off the street in exchange for the strengthening of police ties and connections within a neighborhood seems like a bad deal. Furthermore, the selective picking and choosing about when it is okay to support the prison system is absurd; the prisons must be destroyed, period and we should not aid the scum who lock people up, nor support individuals doing so.

I don't think the destruction of the legal system post-revolution was in question. The question is, should a working-class individual who testifies and "snitches" against a criminal and gets him locked up deserve to be targetted on a website and have violence targetted against him? Lets say theres an individual whose children cant go outside their apartment building because they are harassed by some criminal element that loiters outside, you're telling me that whatever minute destruction of the legal system that would result from someone not going to prison is worth a working class individual attempting to protect his children from harm from being killed or targetted?



I can understand why some people may be motivated to involve the police and become snitches, but the under-classes relying on the pigs for justice is naive and misguided. We need to work towards autonomous community structures for dealing with these issues, and there certainly is precedent for such things.

This is quote possibly the most bourgeois, elitist viewpoint I've come across on RevLeft. So it's "naive and misguided" for working-class individuals to look out for their livelihoods and well-being of their families if calling the cops is the only way to do that? Its somewhat difficult to form "autonomous community structures for dealing with these issues" when the criminals we're dealing with are running websites naming people in order to intimidate them and selling "Stop Snitching" DVDs + warning people they will get killed if they testify in a court case. I seriously can't believe this, you think working class people deserve violence at the hands of lumpen criminals if the tesitfy? :blink: I would LOVE to see you go into working class neighborhood in the US and say this kind of shit.