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Rawthentic
1st December 2006, 03:04
FPM Breaks with League, IWPA
Thursday 30 November 2006 - 02:07:37
At the end of last month, the Free People’s Movement abruptly announced they were breaking relations with the Communist League and also severing their relations with the International Working People’s Association. This announcement, although done in such a way to maximize its element of surprise, had little effect on the League itself. The membership of the League has met and discussed this issue, and has issued a statement explaining our view on the break, as well as outlining political differences with the FPM we had been in the process of formulating for the purposes of initiating a debate between our two groups. (To read the statement, click on "FULL STORY" below.)

All readers of our website, including members of the FPM, are encouraged to read this statement, to research and analyze the views of the two sides, and make their own decisions accordingly.



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After Breaking Relations with the Communist League and IWPA,
Free People’s Movement Makes Peace with Exploiting ‘Allies’
‘Free People’ Re-Enslave Themselves

In the early morning hours of October 31, the Central Committee of the Communist League was notified by the leader of the Free People’s Movement that they were “breaking relations” with us and the International Working People’s Association.

According to the FPM’s leader, this decision was made unanimously and unilaterally by their International Steering Committee. Their brief, one-line statement was accompanied by a number of slanderous accusations about members of the League and even threats of violence against our comrades.

Since that time, members of the FPM have made a number of statements critical of the League (which we don’t mind) and have continued to repeat a number of slanders about our organization (which we do mind very much).

In addition, the FPM seized the website of the IWPA and locked all others out of it, including the Association’s Corresponding Secretary and website coordinator, and has since closed it down. The IWPA website was also the host for the websites of the Detroit Working People’s Association and the Albert Currlin Institute. In fact, the DWPA and ACI did not know that the FPM had done this until our C.C. notified them.

This turnaround by the FPM, though surprising in its tone and abruptness, did not surprise many members of the League who have had conversations with them over the last several months.

In fact, relations between the League and the FPM had been strained for many months prior to the break, with both sides expressing concerns about the other’s approach to political questions and activity. The League had proposed holding a frank public exchange covering the differences between the two organizations, but we never received a response from the FPM.

At the time we received the FPM’s short statement announcing their break in relations, League members were in the process of drafting the first of our documents outlining what we saw as the political differences between the two organizations.

From our perspective, the manner and reasons stated by the FPM for breaking relations with the League, done primarily during an Internet instant messaging session, would only serve to confuse and cloud the issues in dispute, if left as the only stated reasons for the break.

Therefore, this statement will not only address the immediate reasons why the FPM chose to break relations with the League, fully and openly, it will also outline our political differences as we see them.

The Spark

The spark that set off the explosion was an exchange that took place on the Internet between a member of the League and the leading member of the FPM.

One of our members was concerned about how this FPM member was portraying himself as a “political prisoner,” and an expert on the topic. Our comrade went and looked into his case and, after coming to the conclusion that he was, in fact, not a political prisoner, confronted him about it.

To back up a bit: Earlier this year, this leading member of the FPM was arrested after arriving back in the United States after a trip to the Caribbean country of the Dominican Republic, where his organization has members.

The comrade spent several weeks in the custody of the Department of Homeland Security (because he was arrested at the international terminal of John F. Kennedy Airport in New York, he was detained by U.S. Customs, a part of the DHS), and was then transferred to a county jail in the jurisdiction where he was charged. He then spent about two months in that jail, pending a trial.

This FPM member had been charged with defrauding people over the Internet, which carried stiff penalties and possible prison time. While the comrade from the FPM claims the money collected was used to finance political work, all that has ever been provided to the League that this was the case was the member’s word.

At the time of his arrest, he and the FPM asked us to participate in his legal defense. We publicized his case and that of another FPM member (who was very obviously targeted for his political activity) in the pages of our publications, Working People’s Advocate and The Worker [Communist], and encouraged our supporters and members to contribute financially and to help with organizing.

In fact, members of the League, along with members of the Detroit Working People’s Association, held a public protest in Detroit during a “national day of action” called by the FPM to inform and educate people about their case.

However, in the course of this exchange between our member and the leader of the FPM, it came out that this comrade, and the FPM as a whole, was less than forthcoming about the details of the case. In fact, the FPM leader admitted that he outright lied to the League and IWPA about the facts of his case, choosing instead to pick and choose which facts to tell us.

This understandably angered League members, including our comrade who was in the midst of this exchange. The result was that our comrade became very angry with the FPM leader and let him know it.

This led to a series of recriminations against the League by the FPM leader, none of which has any real basis in fact, as well as personalistic attacks on, and threats of physical violence against, other members of the League, including comrades who considered the leader of the FPM to be a personal friend.

(Specifically, the leader of the FPM called members of the League “snakes” who, in his opinion, deserved to be “stabbed in the throat” for their daring to criticize him.)

The next we heard from the FPM was their short statement, made by the FPM’s leader, announcing their break from us and the IWPA.

Personalism

In our opinion, the basis upon which the FPM broke relations with the League is personalistic and apolitical. One of our members criticized their leader, and thus we were declared unworthy of working with them. It is as simple as that.

For a long time, we had been developing concerns about the relationship within the FPM between its leadership and membership. During the period when this leading member of the FPM was in jail, the organization nearly collapsed: branches went inactive or defected to other organizations; “secondary leadership” dropped out of politics; other leading members began to make unprincipled public statements.

It was during this time that the FPM was pushing repeatedly for merger discussions with the League. For several months, League members were repeatedly asked to join the FPM, help with their organizational work, assist them in writing, editing and producing issues of their newspaper, The Free Press, etc.

In response to this push, the C.C. of the League adopted a formal proposal for joint work between the two organizations, with the goal of exploring the basis for fusion. The response of the FPM was less than enthusiastic.

As a matter of fact, it was from the moment we chose the route of proposing joint work that the FPM began backing away from our organization and pursuing independent projects. It was also during this time that a series of exchanges began between the League and FPM about the relations between the two groups.

During those exchanges, we began to notice a tendency on the part of the FPM to transform political criticism into personal affronts.

For example, when the League was critical of the FPM for their work on the Young Soldiers For Change (more on this project below), and commented about how they “did not extend the courtesy” to let us know they were working on it (at a time when, ostensibly, both organizations were involved in joint work and on a path toward possible fusion), their response implied that we were being critical of them as people — more to the point, that we were somehow being chauvinist or even racist.

Where such a criticism came from, we do not know. We can only suspect that it came from the increasingly paranoid and delusional perspective of the FPM leadership.

This slide into personalism on the part of the FPM continued until it reached its apex in the exchange between our member and their leader. That exchange made it abundantly clear to us exactly how intolerant of political criticism and how personal they take such criticism — and thus how incapable the FPM had become in dealing with such critique.

Cult of Personality

We see the problems of personalism to be an outgrowth of the trend within the FPM toward the cult of personality. This trend is not only historical, in the sense that the FPM sees certain leftwing political leaders as almost more than human, but also organizational, in that it appears to us that their leader is above criticism ... internally or externally.

We see this, for example, in the FPM’s cult of personality expressed historically around Fidel Castro and Ernesto “Che” Guevara. For the FPM, both Castro and Guevara are larger-than-life figures, seemingly standing above both social and human development.

It is certainly common among leftists today to see Guevara in the same way that the faithful religious see their martyrs and saints. Indeed, “Guevara-as-icon” is something propagated by everyone from European radicals to the Cuban government; anyone who attends a demonstration or public event of any significant size will at some point come across the iconic image of Guevara, on a t-shirt, poster or flag.

But Guevara was a human being, and as such is as much a part of history and society as any of us. Thus, his political outlook and actions are as much subject to material conditions as they are the subject of study, discussion and criticism.

For the FPM, however, Guevara and his politics are above question — above reproach. His iconography is a sizeable part of the FPM’s political profile, as are his politics. And neither is to be questioned or criticized.

A similar cult of personality exists for Castro. The difference is that, while Guevara is revered as a martyr to “the struggle,” Castro is seen as something of a superman, able to leap material conditions with a single bound.

The political development and actions of Castro, and his class background and history, are not only kept outside of the reach of criticism, they are buried beneath a mountain of mythology and delusion. Castro the man is thus transformed into as much of an icon as the late Guevara. (More on this question of the FPM’s mythologizing of Castro below.)

Organizationally, the leader of the FPM, who goes by the name of Ricardo Santiago, is himself treated as something of an icon (and martyr, after his most recent time in prison).

When the League first came into contact with the FPM in April 2005, members spent a great deal of time reading through the materials available through their website. Among these materials, were a number of “essential readings.” Some of these were classic communist texts by Marx and Engels, and some were writings of Castro, Guevara and other leaders of the Cuban Revolution. But the bulk of those “essential readings” were by ... Santiago.

(Since that time, they have since moved much of those “essential readings” off of their website, and, in place, have an “Other Literature” section that contains the FPM’s Manifesto and ... a book by Santiago. You don’t have to save your money, though. The text is online.)

Class

Having now cleared away the fog in which the FPM sought to envelope their break with us, we can now begin to deal more with the political differences that the League had with them. As we said before, the League had already begun to compile a series of political criticisms of the FPM and we were fully prepared to present and defend them to the comrades prior to the break.

For us, the root question behind all of the differences between the League and the FPM was class.

When the League and the FPM began to talk with each other, it appeared that there was enough of a common agreement on this question to work together and develop an arena where other similar organizations could come together to deal with broader issues. This was the motivation for the formation of the International Working People’s Association in June 2005.

While we always thought that the stance taken by the FPM on this question was a little loose and somewhat vague, we felt there was enough common ground to take that step and to work together. Indeed, when we discussed the class question in advance of forming the IWPA, there seemed to be a greater coming together on this question than we expected.

As things progressed, however, relatively small concerns and problems began to appear in the literature of the FPM that indicated a backing away from a strong stance on class questions.

Increasingly, articles in The Free Press and other FPM literature began to speak of a vague “working class and its allies.” At first, the identity of these “allies” was never really discussed. Over time, however, it came into focus; the “allies” of the working class were ... elements of the petty bourgeoisie.

Early on, talk about petty-bourgeois “allies” was more or less limited to issues involving countries in the Global South. But it did not remain limited to these regions; soon, talk about unity with the petty-bourgeois “allies” of the working class became a universal call for the FPM.

Some members of the FPM, like their leader, attempt to cover this by referring to agricultural workers, the unemployed, “housewives” and sections of the lumpenized mass as “allies,” but their words are always qualified by saying they are “one of” or “some of” the “allies.” So, who are the rest?

At the same time, two other transformations occurred that did not escape our notice: First, the FPM began to abandon a materialist conception of class in favor of an idealistic (to be kind) view of class consciousness. Second, the FPM — which had always insisted to us that an organizational policy of only recruiting working people was just “common sense” — reversed course and had begun to build common organizations with sections of the petty bourgeoisie.

Several examples of the FPM’s changes exist, but three of them stand out in particular as an indication of how they devolved.

Castro, the Worker?

A revealing discussion took place on an Internet discussion board between members of the FPM, including its leader, and a young Mexican anarchist. This exchange exposed how far these comrades had moved from their original positions.

The young anarchist asked the FPM how they could justify their organizational “common sense” of only recruiting workers with their seemingly uncritical support for the Cuban government and its leaders, including Fidel Castro.

Indeed, we too were curious about how the FPM was going to square this circle, and so we watched from a comfortable distance and did not interfere in the debate when it started.

To our surprise, the FPM had a clear and concise response to the young comrade: Castro is a worker:


The FPM supports Comrade Fidel because the Cuban people do. He is their chosen leader, tempered in the most serious of revolutionary struggles.

He was born to a landed family, but he broke with his class background and became proletarianized in the fight for justice.

Remember that he was never a lawyer for profit. He used his law skills to help unions, workers, activists and political parties free of charge.

He had a small apartment where he lived with his wife and child. He wouldn't accept any money from his wife's bourgeois family.

Often Fidel couldn't pay the rent. At one point all of his furniture and possessions were repossessed due to debt. His friends put together money secretly (because he wouldn't allow them to do it if he knew about it) to get his possessions back before he found out they were gone.

He led an uprising of workers and farmers for which he was imprisoned. From the walls of the prison he became a hero and cherished leader. Once released he dedicated himself full time to the revolution. (Re: A Question to Members of the Free People’s Movement, October 28, 2006)


This position was originally expressed by one member of the FPM, but was quickly taken up by others, including the FPM’s leader. In other words, this view of how Castro became a worker is the accepted position of their organization.

Admittedly, we had to ask ourselves if they were serious. Our members, many of whom have decades of experience dealing with Castroites and generally uncritical supporters of Cuba, had never heard any of them attempt to argue that Castro was a worker. We can only assume it is because they would have been laughed out of their own organizations for such ridiculous statements.

But for the FPM, the ridiculous has become the “line.” For us, however, this is not the main point.

Class is rooted in material reality — that is, in the social and production relations that exist in society. It is one’s place in this material existence — not just at a particular moment, but throughout a process that span’s one’s lifetime — that determines not only class but one’s class consciousness.

This is the materialist understanding of class, first elaborated by Marx and Engels, which the League understands and supports. For us, understanding someone’s class position (to say nothing of their class consciousness) begins with their class background — their “social being,” as Marx called it.

From this perspective, someone who grew up in a family of landowners, became an independent professional, married into the bourgeoisie and was able to survive without having to sell his ability to work (his labor-power) until becoming the president of a country is someone whose “social being” was firmly rooted in a class other than the proletariat.

Clearly, this is not the perspective shared by the FPM. For them, Castro’s “good deeds” far outweighed his class background and “social being.” He was the “good guy” in the real-life morality play involving the Cuban people and the Batista dictatorship.

There is also a large measure of vulgar romanticism of the poor that comes through in this explanation. Castro is said to have become working class because he lived in poor conditions, and that time spent in poverty, along with a few years in prison, is what eventually led him to be “a hero and cherished leader.”

Social relations — that is, the relations between groups of people defined by relations to the means of production — and “social being” are exchanged for simplistic, incremental relations based on income. Using this method, it is easy to lump together small shopkeepers with lower levels of working people because they may all be “poor.” Likewise, workers in auto, steel, longshore and other industries that pay a decent wage can be lumped together with yuppie “professionals” and managers because they are relatively well paid.

This is the method and doctrine perpetuated by the capitalist class in order to confuse the real class divisions of society, specifically through the myth of a “broad middle class” composed of more privileged sections of workers, the petty bourgeoisie and small capitalists. It is also the philosophical basis of bourgeois economic structures like the so-called “team concept,” which pits workers against each other in order to help the capitalists maximize profits.

We can certainly understand such arguments coming from a group of young, doe-eyed activists who are new to the harsh world of international politics. But from a self-described communist organization, especially one that claims to take class questions seriously, it is inexcusable.

Free People’s Front?

About the same time that the leaders and members of the FPM were attempting to convince people that Fidel Castro was a worker, they also began to organize a “united front” with the lofty goal of “shutting down the war machine.”

This “united front,” called “The Committee for the Creation of a Coalition for a Day to Shut Down the War Machine,” seeks to organize for a one-day general strike to “literally bring the war machine, which relies on all of us to function, to a screeching halt!” Certainly, a noble goal.

For starters, this effort sounds awfully familiar. From our perspective, the FPM’s “Shut Down the War Machine” committee-for-the-creation-of-a-coalition is little more than an attempt to create a more radical-sounding version of the “World Can’t Wait” campaign, created by the Maoist Revolutionary Communist Party USA.

The difference is that, unlike the WCW campaign, the SDTWM wannabe-campaign has none of the virtues and almost all of the vices of the original.

The most glaring example of this is contained in the so-called “Open Letter to the People of the United States.” While the SDTWM “united front” talks a great deal about “working people” and how they are the ones who have to bear the burden of capitalist war — all of which is generally correct — they reveal their true orientation when they speak of whom they wish to organize into their grand committee-for-the-creation-of-a-coalition.


We urge all interested individuals (including workers, union officials and representatives, artists, musicians, undocumented workers, “housewives” and the unemployed), and organizations to contact us immediately to add their name to the list of signatories of this letter. (“Open Letter to the People of the United States,” received via e-mail October 20, 2006 — emphasis ours)


So, for all of their talk about “working people,” the goal of this committee-for-the-creation-of-a-coalition — this so-called “united front” — is to bring together “all interested individuals ... and organizations,” regardless of class basis, to hold a one-day national strike, just as the RCP and WCW tried (and failed) to do last October 5.

This campaign of the FPM is, in our opinion, little more than an attempt to reproduce the WCW campaign in miniature with “better” leadership.

(We will not comment in length about the list of “endorsers” so far supporting the SDTWM committee-for-the-creation-of-a-coalition, except to remind the comrades that a “united front” does not mean simply uniting your front groups.)

The Communist League has asserted from its founding that it is up to working people themselves to defend, extend and resolve the outstanding democratic tasks of society. No section of the capitalist class or its petty-bourgeois managers can do it, either with us or for us. The time when they could be such a partner has long since passed.

This was one of our primary criticisms of the World Can’t Wait campaign when it first started. Nevertheless, we correctly understood that the RCP had the capacity to draw small but militant sections of working people to its events — especially after it was able to successfully divide sections of the base of the Democratic Party and win them over.

One of our goals in participating in the WCW campaign was to intersect these active workers and working-class youth, and attempt to win them over to a revolutionary-democratic and communist alternative.

In our opinion, the SDTWM committee-for-the-creation-of-a-coalition has no basis for drawing in much more than the FPM, its immediate ring of supporters and the shadow of the exploiting classes — to whom, we suspect, they will make all appropriate accommodation, in order to not lose their “support.” They might get a few more individuals of note, many of whom will sign on to just about anything that sounds “progressive” or leftwing, but little else.

All of their attempts to gather together petty-bourgeois elements like “union officials,... artists, musicians” and “all interested individuals ... and organizations” in any significant numbers will yield little more than they current have, unless they decide to turn over leadership to these “allies” of working people.

When thinking about this effort at creating a new and improved “people’s front” — a “Free People’s Front” — we are reminded of Marx’s comment about historical facts and personages occurring twice: “the first time as tragedy, the second time as farce.”

Spare “Change”

While one might be inclined to dismiss our criticisms of the SDTWM committee-for-the-creation-of-a-coalition as nitpicking or worse, and argue that the FPM is only making such an ecumenical stance because it is for a single event, we would like to point out the existence of the Young Soldiers For Change.

The YSFC was created last September by the FPM and some of its immediate ring of supporters as some kind of paramilitary activist organization for young people from all classes who “oppose capitalism.”

It was the formation of the YSFC that started the real cleaving between the FPM and the League. In order to understand why, it is necessary to go back and talk about what was happening between the two organizations.

About two months before the YSFC came into existence, the League and FPM had begun talking concretely about ways to work together. Among the ideas raised in these discussions was the joint formation of a working people’s self-defense force, creatively titled the Workers’ Self-Defense Corps.

The WSDC would be a volunteer organization of working people trained in the military arts, organized into military formations with elected commanders and chiefs, and with the task of physically defending working people, their organizations and struggles.

Talk about the WSDC started after the FPM began to tell us about some of the work they were beginning to organize in cities like New York. When they told us about what they wanted to do, we felt it was necessary to point out that it would bring them into direct conflict with the capitalist state, and that proper preparation would be necessary.

In those conversations, the representative of the FPM was more than open to the idea. In fact, our two organizations had reached an agreement and, on our end at least, initial preparations were started. We did not hear from the FPM for more than a month on this question. The next thing we know, the FPM has formed the YSFC.

We were understandably upset at what seemed like a case of the FPM going off and forming a self-defense organization with people they could “lead,” instead of working with us on a joint project where both groups composed the leadership.

And, in spite of the statements from the FPM to the contrary, it appeared to us that the YSFC was little more than the FPM’s original proposal for a self-defense group with a new name.

Indeed, everything from the YSFC’s “urban camouflage” uniforms to their organization into “units/brigades” and posting of military manuals on their website (can you say “security risk”?) belied the FPM’s assertion that the YSFC was not created in place of the WSDC.

But these trappings and trifles are not our main criticism of the YSFC. Leaving aside the lame attempts to appeal to the hip-hop community through fashion and language, and leaving aside the total amateurishness of the organization and training, our problem with the “Young Soldiers” is that they are drawn from all classes, not from among working people or working-class youth.

This is important. Here was an organization, the FPM, that was talking about forming a self-defense organization to protect the work of activist fronts like their “Poor People’s Defense Committees,” which would carry out “un-evictions,” utility turn-ons and similar work, and yet they were going to rely on young people — some of whom could very well be the children of the slumlords who sought the evictions the PPDCs were working to undo, or the children of small shopkeepers targeted for selling spoiled meat and dairy products to the poor — to defend poor workers!

Moreover, the YSFC, like the PPDCs and other organizations the FPM sought to create, was designed to be something of a permanent organization, not just a united front for this or that event.

For us, this conscious decision to toss out class restrictions for an organization where the class line was to be defended physically against the capitalist state was proof that not only was their growing appeals to the petty bourgeoisie more than an aberration, but in fact the new rule being established, it was also proof that they were wholly unserious about any of their proposed active work.

This combination of unseriousness and willingness to accommodate the petty bourgeoisie we believe is not only dangerous, but, in the end, also explains their political trajectory.

Cuba

This leads us back to the question of Cuba. It does so because the FPM’s uncritical cheerleading of the current Cuban government and system embodies this dangerous combination mentioned above.

For the FPM, Cuba is a full-blown “socialist society” — not a “socialist state,” a country in transition from capitalism to the first phase of communism, but a new “society” where the social transformations are more or less complete.

What this means exactly is never fully explained. Is this “socialist society” the lower phase of communism, implying that classes and class antagonisms have been fundamentally abolished? Or, is this “socialist society” a new mode of production existing between capitalism and communism, where the guiding principle is “from each according to their ability, to each according to their work?”

For that matter, what kind of “socialism” exists in this “socialist society?” Is it bourgeois socialism, which Marx and Engels described as “the social New Jerusalem,” predicated on “administrative reforms, based on the continued existence of these relations; reforms, therefore, that in no respect affect the relations between capital and labor, but, at the best, lessen the cost, and simplify the administrative work, of bourgeois government?”

Could it be a kind of petty-bourgeois socialism, which “cramp[s] the modern means of production and of exchange within the framework of the old property relations that have been, and were bound to be, exploded by those means,” through some form of “corporate guilds for manufacture; patriarchal relations in agriculture?”

Such theoretical issues are seemingly of no concern to the FPM. Indeed, they have never published a single work outlining what they mean when they refer to Cuba as “socialist” or a “socialist society.” Sound and measured communist theory is replaced by radical phrase-mongering and mantra-chanting.

But the FPM’s uncritical support for Cuba goes beyond cheerleading; their support has made them into proselytizers of the infallibility of the Castro government.


To be sure, life in Cuba is not perfect. Through all the shortages and crises (many of which were created by the U.S. government in one way or another), the leadership of the revolution has always been completely honest with the Cuban people. (“The Truth about Cuba,” Rebel Yell!, No. 1, Summer 2005 — emphasis ours)


Oh, really? Were Castro and the other leaders of the Cuban Revolution being “completely honest” when they condemned communists and revolutionary workers — who fought to establish workers’ councils and assemblies, worker-controlled unions and workplaces, and an independent communist party of the working class, in “socialist Cuba” — to years in prison as “counterrevolutionaries?”

Were Castro and the other leaders of the Cuban Revolution being “completely honest” when they initiated a witchhunt of gays and lesbians in the 1970s and 1980s, ultimately leading to the formation of Soviet-style “sanitariums” where “doctors” attempted to “cure” them of their sexuality?

Were Castro and the other leaders of the Cuban Revolution being “completely honest” about the reasons why General Arnaldo Ochoa Sánchez, a “Hero of the Revolution” for his internationalist work in Africa in the 1960s and 1970s, was tried and executed in 1989?

It is one thing to support Cuba unconditionally; it is another thing to elevate its very human leadership to the level of infallibility. At least, such is the case for those who take political questions seriously.

“Litmus Test”

Throughout our dealings with the FPM, one thing we learned is that the theoretical vacuum that exists within their politics is often filled with moralistic appeals and “articles of faith.”

Cuba is the best example of this. The FPM has no theoretical basis of their own for their assertion that it is a “socialist society.” But this is of no concern to them. In the place where the theory should be is a series of unfounded assertions such as those above. And it is to these assertions that all members of the FPM must pledge themselves.

These articles of faith are codified by the FPM as a “litmus test” for all those seeking to work closely with their organization. Those individuals and organizations that do not measure up to their “test” are to be discarded as “bourgeois liberal,” “narrow Eurocentrists” and “pseudo-collectives” (as the FPM’s Portland, Oregon, branch referred to us in a letter calling for a break in relations with us on the basis of Cuba).

Cheap insults with no political basis are dime-a-dozen in this society. All one has to do is tune into any talk radio program to hear your fill of them. But whether it is from the mouth of Ann Coulter or a comrade of the FPM is irrelevant; such attacks are no substitute for real political analysis and criticism.

What is the League’s position on Cuba? At the moment, we do not have a unified viewpoint on the class character of the Cuban government or revolution. We are in the process of discussing this question, and are weighing all of the arguments that have been presented historically. In fact, we asked the FPM to help with this discussion by answering two sets of questions submitted by League members that would aid in clarifying the issue. The FPM only answered the first set.

At the same time, League members are united when it comes to the question of Cuba and its “relationship” with world capitalism in general, and U.S. imperialism in particular: We defend the Cuban Revolution against any attempts to restore the old social order, either through external intervention or internal revolt. On this point, there is no difference between us and the FPM.

But because we do not obediently recite the FPM’s Cuba catechism, we were heretical.

In the series of exchanges between the League and FPM prior to the break in relations, we wrote about our concerns over their use of “litmus tests.” One paragraph in particular sums up our view.


Litmus tests often become more than points of principle or analysis. They become articles of faith. This is because, many times, the test itself will become more important than the material conditions that led to the test coming into existence. Moreover, the tests often take on a life of their own, and live far longer than those material conditions themselves. The fact that, for example, 27 years after the actual event, and nearly 20 years after its material relevance ceased to exist, the Spartacists still consider one’s position on whether or not to “Hail Red Army in Afghanistan” as a chief “litmus test” is a testament to the problems that are contained in their approach to political questions. (Letter from the C.C. Bureau of the League to the ISC of the FPM, September 27, 2006)


In the month following this letter, our concerns were shown to be entirely justified, and our criticism to be too late.

From our perspective, the FPM chose to embrace this confessional method and reject principled politics based on serious analysis. In the process, they have also chosen to abandon most (if not all) of the theoretical foundations they had that initially brought our two organizations closer.

“Oaxaca Commune”?

The extent of the deterioration of the FPM’s ability to understand the world around them was demonstrated in their approach to the events in Oaxaca, Mexico, over the last several months.

From the League’s perspective, the events in Oaxaca, including the formation of the Popular Assembly of the People of Oaxaca (APPO) and the occupation of the Zócalo (city center) of Oaxaca City, have been the leading edge of a young but militant radical-democratic uprising.

Although the struggle in Oaxaca was initiated by striking teachers and their local labor unions, the struggle has since been led by elements of the petty bourgeoisie, including “social justice” Non-Governmental Organizations, small business owners and leftwing careerists looking to enhance their status. The workers and their organizations have been relegated to an “and others” role in the struggle they started.

The League wrote three articles on the question of Oaxaca, analyzing the class relationships in the struggle and outlining a communist perspective on the struggle (these articles were published together under the headline, “Oaxaca Struggle in Jeopardy!” Working People’s Advocate, Vol. 3, No. 1, November 2006)

But among many sections of the petty-bourgeois left, seemingly regardless of doctrine, the democratic struggle of the people of Oaxaca has been inexplicably transformed into a proletarian revolution, and the APPO has been reborn — in the pages of leftist publications, anyway — as the “Oaxaca Commune.”

The FPM has also cast the democratic struggle in Oaxaca in this light. In successive articles, the FPM refers to the supporters of the APPO as “communards” and has whitewashed the treacherous role of the petty bourgeoisie in this struggle.


It is a truly democratic body, made up of local workers and farmers – including members of many different unions and political organizations. Decisions are reached after discussion, debate and approval by the members. For the first time in Oaxaca, real majority rule exists. (“Victory to the Oaxaca Commune!”, The Free Press, Vol. 2, No. 10, October 2006)

... [the] APPO (Popular Assembly of the People of Oaxaca), the de facto governing body of Oaxaca, made up of delegates representing union members, poor farmers and other workers. (“Oaxaca Under Attack!”, The Free Press, Vol. 2, No. 11, November 2006)


Indeed, the FPM has only once made one public criticism of the leaders of the APPO.


To do this, it will be necessary to combat the “mis”leaders [sic], who make up a part of CEAPPO [the State Council of the APPO, the successor to the original APPO — Ed.], that promote “nonviolence” — in the face of violent state sponsored attacks! — and oppose truly revolutionary action. As we pointed out in earlier coverage of the Commune, these policies can, and indeed have, only lead to the defeat and slaughter of the exploited masses Oaxaca. (ibid.)


Here we see how far the FPM has moved away from solid class analysis. Petty-bourgeois leaders become “local workers and farmers” whose only problem is a tendency toward bad “policies.”

Petty-Bourgeois Socialism

This is the classical method of petty-bourgeois socialism, which “often hides behind various labels and terminology — ‘the people’ and ‘the masses’ are their generally popular terms — in order to obscure the identity of which class is really in power: the petty bourgeoisie.” (Point 25, Basic Principles of the Communist League)

In his time, Marx saw this as petty-bourgeois socialism of a special type, “critical-utopian socialism,” and correctly described its method:


The undeveloped state of the class struggle, as well as their own surroundings, causes Socialists of this kind to consider themselves [and their icons, we might add — Ed.] far superior to all class antagonisms. They want to improve the condition of every member of society, even that of the most favored. Hence, they habitually appeal to society at large, without the distinction of class; nay, by preference, to the ruling class. For how can people, when once they understand their system, fail to see in it the best possible plan of the best possible state of society?

Hence, they reject all political, and especially all revolutionary, action; they wish to attain their ends by peaceful means, necessarily doomed to failure, and by the force of example, to pave the way for the new social Gospel. (“Socialist and Communist Literature,” Communist Manifesto — emphasis ours)


This aptly describes the method of the FPM, with only a couple exceptions. The FPM’s view of Cuba and its leaders places them above and “far superior to all class antagonisms” in the world. Their whitewashing and disappearing of the petty bourgeoisie in Cuba and Oaxaca, as well as their blanket appeals to “the people” and “society at large, without the distinction of class,” reinforces this understanding.

And the FPM’s love of the Guevarist method of guerrillaism (also called “foquismo”) is certainly a case of wishing “to attain their ends ... by the force of example.”

For Marx, such politics “correspond with the first instinctive yearnings of that class for a general reconstruction of society” (ibid.). In our view, the FPM does indeed have this tendency within them. However, it would be a gross oversimplification to regard this as a universal description of all their members.

If all of the members of the FPM were relatively new to politics, and had not yet been exposed to serious communist theory and practice, then it would be easy to classify the whole of the FPM as critical-utopian, and approach them accordingly. However, many of the leading members of the FPM have extensive experience in the left and are more than familiar with communist theory.

Thus, while many FPM members who are relatively new to politics are drawn to a critical-utopian methodology, the perpetuation of all of the problems of such a method by the organization’s leaders point to an entrenched (and now embraced) influence of petty-bourgeois socialist doctrine.

Negatively Resolved

Throughout its hitherto existence, we knew the FPM had to confront a contradiction that had the potential of leading these comrades to ruin: the conflict between the FPM’s “common-sense” understanding of the importance of class, and the strong influence of petty-bourgeois consciousness and doctrine within the organization.

During the period when the League had comradely relations with the FPM, we sought to counsel our then-comrades on the need for them to resolve this contradiction in favor of their class instincts, which manifested themselves in that “common-sense” understanding.

It has become clear that the FPM has chosen to do the opposite of what we suggested, and have thus negatively resolved this contradiction. They have decided to codify the petty-bourgeois methods that guided their positions on certain issues, and in turn codify those issues as articles of faith.

As a result, the League does not lament the break in relations between us and the FPM. From our perspective, the development of the FPM over the last period would have led to a break in relations, most likely initiated by us.

In our view, the FPM has chosen to “go with the flow” of petty-bourgeois socialist politics, and have thus, in word and deed, betrayed the very words of their Manifesto: “To be clear, due to its role in society the working class (the exploited majority which creates all wealth) is the only class capable of leading a successful revolution.”

For our part, the League has learned from its experience with the FPM. We have a better understanding of how the doctrines and ideology of the exploiting and oppressing classes can transform good comrades into their opposite. We have learned how this develops and how it manifests itself, and how external pressures can guide and mold this process.

So, while we consider the outcome of our relations with the FPM as unfortunate, we do not for one moment regret our relations with them.

Our work over the next immediate period will be guided by these experiences. We will work together with our members and supporters to explore the lessons “taught” to us by the FPM so that we may be able to help prevent such degeneration in other working people’s organizations that exist or may come into existence.

To our comrades, our class brothers and sisters in the Free People’s Movement, we say: consider our words, carefully review what has happened over the last period, and decide for yourselves what kind of organization you wish to build. We know there are members of the FPM who are concerned about the current direction of the organization, both in terms of its politics and its activity.

We encourage these comrades to contact us (as others already have) and discuss the political issues that the leaders of the FPM choose to bury under a mountain of personalism, slander and threats. We are not asking you to break from the FPM, but to take responsibility for understanding these issues and leadership in clarifying them.

The Communist League will continue to uphold the banner of proletarian communism and the struggle for the overthrow of capitalism, and will not retreat from that responsibility. Our primary guiding principle remains, “The liberation of working people must be carried out by working people themselves.”


November 30, 2006

Enragé
1st December 2006, 23:13
any response from the FPM?

Severian
2nd December 2006, 00:31
Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 09:04 pm
Personalism

In our opinion, the basis upon which the FPM broke relations with the League is personalistic and apolitical. One of our members criticized their leader, and thus we were declared unworthy of working with them. It is as simple as that.

For a long time, we had been developing concerns about the relationship within the FPM between its leadership and membership. During the period when this leading member of the FPM was in jail, the organization nearly collapsed: branches went inactive or defected to other organizations; “secondary leadership” dropped out of politics; other leading members began to make unprincipled public statements.
Well, that happens with "organizations" that have only a handful of active members. Personal disputes (and personal affinities) tend to have a big effect on organization life. Both within it, and between 'em.

It's also ironic how large events on this forum seem to loom for both groups (CdeL is the leader of the FPM?) It's just the 'net....

I'm not gonna comment about all the smaller political and organizational business, much of which seems to be of the pot, kettle variety.

As far as the larger issues involved in the Oaxaca situation, and the necessary alliances between the working class and other social layers of working people, there was some good discussion in this thread. (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=57262)

Wanted Man
2nd December 2006, 00:38
Wow, I can't believe I read through all of that.


The Committee for the Creation of a Coalition for a Day to Shut Down the War Machine
Please tell me you're joking.

Well, it looks like eclectic "back to Marxism(and a bit of Leninism on the side)" or "21st century communism" or whatever you want to call it is in fact not here to save the day. Let's hope this'll wake some people up.

Severian is right. I mean, come on, basically it's like this: "Relations started deteriorating due to a faithful conversation on MSN Messenger!!! :blink: Relations then finally broke down during discussions on an internet forum!!! :ph34r:"

I seriously can't believe this. It really only reminds me of the good old "5 trotskyists in a phone booth" joke. But come on guys, listen to yourself. Go stand on a soapbox in a proletarian neighbourhood, and read that article out loud, and see if anybody stays awake while you document... oh noes, teh terrible internet forum split of 2006!!! :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:

OneBrickOneVoice
2nd December 2006, 01:07
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2006 12:38 am
Wow, I can't believe I read through all of that.


The Committee for the Creation of a Coalition for a Day to Shut Down the War Machine
Please tell me you're joking.

Well, it looks like eclectic "back to Marxism(and a bit of Leninism on the side)" or "21st century communism" or whatever you want to call it is in fact not here to save the day. Let's hope this'll wake some people up.

Severian is right. I mean, come on, basically it's like this: "Relations started deteriorating due to a faithful conversation on MSN Messenger!!! :blink: Relations then finally broke down during discussions on an internet forum!!! :ph34r:"

I seriously can't believe this. It really only reminds me of the good old "5 trotskyists in a phone booth" joke. But come on guys, listen to yourself. Go stand on a soapbox in a proletarian neighbourhood, and read that article out loud, and see if anybody stays awake while you document... oh noes, teh terrible internet forum split of 2006!!! :ph34r: :ph34r: :ph34r:
:lol: This event shallt goeth down in history...

YSR
2nd December 2006, 01:18
Oh. My. Sweet. Jesus.

I can't believe it. This took place on RevLeft, didn't it?

Ridiculous.

(PS: that first statement doesn't imply recognition or respect for religion, organized or otherwise.)

Martin Blank
2nd December 2006, 01:24
The leaders of the FPM took those conversations seriously enough to break relations with us and the IWPA over them, so, yes, we had to address them in that context. And, as you can see, that element is only a small part of the overall document.

The political differences, on the other hand, are very real, and the manifestions of them here are incidental to the questions themselves. This document began as an outline of those differences (in the current document, everything from "Cult of Personality" to the end was taken from the original, pre-break draft), which was to be presented to the FPM when it was finished. We decided to go ahead and incorporate this in the statement on the break because we think that it is important to know what was really behind this break in relations, in our opinion.

You're welcome to say that it's "just the 'net", but that only shows how backward you really are. The Internet is a communications medium, like print, radio and television. What is said there should be taken seriously, if it is presented seriously. When we receive an e-mail from an organization that is meant to be taken seriously, we take it seriously, and we would expect the same from them. If the FPM is going to seriously defend its political positions here, then there is no reason to discount that act as if it means nothing.

As for the sniping about "21st century communism" and the like, I don't know whether to laugh or feel pity. Your doctrines have failed for close to a century, and yet we're somehow failures after only two years of existence. I'd tell you to get over yourselves, but there's no need. The working class already did that decades ago.

Miles

black magick hustla
2nd December 2006, 01:24
A revealing discussion took place on an Internet discussion board between members of the FPM, including its leader, and a young Mexican anarchist. This exchange exposed how far these comrades had moved from their original positions.

The young anarchist asked the FPM how they could justify their organizational “common sense” of only recruiting workers with their seemingly uncritical support for the Cuban government and its leaders, including Fidel Castro.

Holy shit.

That young mexican anarchist was me.

OneBrickOneVoice
2nd December 2006, 01:35
Your doctrines have failed for close to a century

failed at what?

Wanted Man
2nd December 2006, 01:35
Originally posted by CommunistLeague+December 02, 2006 01:24 am--> (CommunistLeague @ December 02, 2006 01:24 am) You're welcome to say that it's "just the 'net", but that only shows how backward you really are. The Internet is a communications medium, like print, radio and television. What is said there should be taken seriously, if it is presented seriously. When we receive an e-mail from an organization that is meant to be taken seriously, we take it seriously, and we would expect the same from them. If the FPM is going to seriously defend its political positions here, then there is no reason to discount that act as if it means nothing. [/b]
Oh, sure, I won't deny that you are all trying your hardest to sound as solemn and serious as you can. I'm just questioning if anybody besides yourselves will take you as such. Again, 5 trots may feel very serious holding their national convention in a members' bedroom, but it doesn't make them consequential. Of course, CL and FPM have done infinitely much more than that, but that just makes it worse: why does a union of two organisations that have accomplished quite a big deal offline, crumble over some petty disputes on MSN and RevLeft?

It's just so anti-climactic. It could be genuinely important theoretical disunity, or perhaps even failure to properly cooperate in practice, but all I'm seeing here is silly semantics, and the fact that apparently the other side has said something which might have contradicted what Marx once wrote some 150 years ago. Oh, and there's apparently a cult of personality around the Holy Thrinity of Che, Fidel and CdL. Right. Excuse me for not believing that.


Originally posted by [email protected]
As for the sniping about "21st century communism" and the like, I don't know whether to laugh or feel pity. Your doctrines have failed for close to a century, and yet we're somehow failures after only two years of existence. I'd tell you to get over yourselves, but there's no need. The working class already did that decades ago.
OH SHI- well, I'd better phone some comrades then, to inform their bosses that they are quitting, because they are no longer workers.


Marmot
Holy shit.

That young mexican anarchist was me.
Congratz d00d, you've played an instrumental role in the Great 2006 RevLeft Split.

Martin Blank
2nd December 2006, 01:39
Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2006 08:35 pm
why does a union of two organisations that have accomplished quite a big deal offline, crumble over some petty disputes on MSN and RevLeft?
That is the $64,000 question, isn't it? Unfortunately, it's not one I can answer. Only the FPM can answer it. After all, they were the ones who broke relations with us over his Internet conversation with one of our members. If the roles were reversed, we would not have broken relations over such a thing. That's why we called it personalistic and apolitical. Perhaps petty would have been a good description of it, too.

Miles

black magick hustla
2nd December 2006, 01:42
I have a question.

Does the FPM operates through democratic centralism?

Wanted Man
2nd December 2006, 01:43
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2006 01:39 am
That is the $64,000 question, isn't it? Unfortunately, it's not one I can answer. Only the FPM can answer it. After all, they were the ones who broke relations with us over his Internet conversation with one of our members. If the roles were reversed, we would not have broken relations over such a thing. That's why we called it personalistic and apolitical. Perhaps petty would have been a good description of it, too.

Miles
Of course, but that's the thing: no doubt FPM already has another 40-paragraph statement in the works that meticulously explains how it was all your fault, and how you are in fact guilty of breaking relations for personalistic, apolitical and petty internet reasons. I mean, it's fun reading and all, but I hope you realise that to the outsider, no matter who is "right", the idea of the IWPA crumbling because of some discussions on RevLeft is just laughable.

Rawthentic
2nd December 2006, 01:48
I seriously doubt that, its not possible. Lets just say I got the inside scoop.

Martin Blank
2nd December 2006, 01:51
Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2006 08:35 pm

Your doctrines have failed for close to a century

failed at what?
Well, let's see. They failed at:...

-- uniting the working class into a single political movement
-- aiding in the overthrow of capitalism in countries where the conditions were right after the First World War
-- aiding in the defeat of fascism in Italy, Poland, Germany and Spain
-- aiding the working class in its liberation from capitalism
-- helping the working class to establish a working people's republic that was actually under workers' control
-- helping to set the working class on the path from class to classless society
-- stopping the petty bourgeoisie from leading a counterrevolution and taking power in the USSR
-- aiding the workers' uprisings in Europe and Asia after the Second World War
-- stopping the slaughter of millions of workers and communists around the world during the Cold War
-- transforming the mass struggles in Eastern Europe, the former USSR and China in the late-1980s into proletarian revolutions

These are a few broad examples. I could get specific, but there's no reason to.

And yet, after all of this failure compounded on failure, we are somehow the ones who have failed. Go figure.

The world loves irony.

Miles

cenv
2nd December 2006, 01:52
Originally posted by Matthijs+December 02, 2006 01:43 am--> (Matthijs @ December 02, 2006 01:43 am)
[email protected] 02, 2006 01:39 am
That is the $64,000 question, isn't it? Unfortunately, it's not one I can answer. Only the FPM can answer it. After all, they were the ones who broke relations with us over his Internet conversation with one of our members. If the roles were reversed, we would not have broken relations over such a thing. That's why we called it personalistic and apolitical. Perhaps petty would have been a good description of it, too.

Miles
Of course, but that's the thing: no doubt FPM already has another 40-paragraph statement in the works that meticulously explains how it was all your fault, and how you are in fact guilty of breaking relations for personalistic, apolitical and petty internet reasons. I mean, it's fun reading and all, but I hope you realise that to the outsider, no matter who is "right", the idea of the IWPA crumbling because of some discussions on RevLeft is just laughable. [/b]
That people would dismiss the issue because a good portion of the communication took place on an Internet forum is equally laughable. Additionally, if you see this as simply "silly semantics", perhaps you should reread the original League statement.

Martin Blank
2nd December 2006, 01:54
Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2006 08:43 pm
I mean, it's fun reading and all, but I hope you realise that to the outsider, no matter who is "right", the idea of the IWPA crumbling because of some discussions on RevLeft is just laughable.
The IWPA isn't "crumbling" or anything of the sort. True, the FPM seized the IWPA's website, but that's all they did (and all they got -- they didn't get the contact lists). The League and the Detroit Working People's Association are still part of the IWPA, and we are currently talking about where we go from here.

And the fact is that the FPM really didn't do a lot with the IWPA anyway. They were just there, so it's not like it's some big loss or something.

Miles

Janus
2nd December 2006, 03:34
It's just the 'net....
As the Internet continues to develop, we're going to see more political organizing around it. It may seem silly or nerdy to some of the old-timers, but the fact is that the Internet is one of the most convenient ways for the exchange of information and communiques between peoples and groups that cannot meet in person.


CdeL is the leader of the FPM?)
He's definitely a senior member for sure.

Janus
2nd December 2006, 03:38
why does a union of two organisations that have accomplished quite a big deal offline, crumble over some petty disputes on MSN and RevLeft?
The announcement itself states that there were ideological differences that were the main reasons for the split. It was not caused by simple petty arguements over IM.

RebeldePorLaPAZ
2nd December 2006, 04:07
Wow, hmmm, let me say a few things because I have been involved with FPM since it first began for the most part. As of late I haven't been directly involved since I have moved and I am still facing criminal charges for my on going trial.

Let me just comment on a few things, and I right now don't have the time to do in detail. In short, I just pulled 12 hours of work and I'm tired.


In the early morning hours of October 31, the Central Committee of the Communist League was notified by the leader of the Free People’s Movement that they were “breaking relations” with us and the International Working People’s Association.

According to the FPM’s leader, this decision was made unanimously and unilaterally by their International Steering Committee. Their brief, one-line statement was accompanied by a number of slanderous accusations about members of the League and even threats of violence against our comrades.

There is no leader or central leader and there never was, We elected delegates who represented their branch. The delegates as a whole made the decisions, not one person. We all vote and discuss issues that are brought up to the table. I'm not going to quote every time "leader" is said but it is said enough. We know you are referring to CDL, and sorry, yes he has a say but no he is not a supreme leader. I refuse to be part of an organization with that kind of structure. Period.


In addition, the FPM seized the website of the IWPA and locked all others out of it, including the Association’s Corresponding Secretary and website coordinator, and has since closed it down. The IWPA website was also the host for the websites of the Detroit Working People’s Association and the Albert Currlin Institute. In fact, the DWPA and ACI did not know that the FPM had done this until our C.C. notified them.

When did this happen and why is this the first that I have heard of this?


This slide into personalism on the part of the FPM continued until it reached its apex in the exchange between our member and their leader. That exchange made it abundantly clear to us exactly how intolerant of political criticism and how personal they take such criticism — and thus how incapable the FPM had become in dealing with such critique.

I think the FPM and I speak for the league too, I feel that both of these organizations have every right to pursue their own individual projects. But to slander one and say something like "slide into personal-ism" is ridiculous. You weren't invited to the party, grow up.


Cult of Personality

For the FPM, both Castro and Guevara are larger-than-life figures, seemingly standing above both social and human development.

:lol: Come on now, honestly.


Organizationally, the leader of the FPM, who goes by the name of Ricardo Santiago, is himself treated as something of an icon (and martyr, after his most recent time in prison).

Yes, we push Ricardo Santiago just as much as Bob Avakin. This is hilarious. Oh how I feel our dearly beloved Chairman Ricardo will react to this evil attack.

I feel this is an unnecessary attack and I can't think of any motive for it. Comical to say the least. I mean, just because one of our members wrote a book, it doesn't mean it becomes the heart and sole of our organization. I have criticized the book directly to Ricardo without fear of being punished by his great powers as Supreme World Wide Leader of the FPM.


The FPM supports Comrade Fidel because the Cuban people do. He is their chosen leader, tempered in the most serious of revolutionary struggles.

He was born to a landed family, but he broke with his class background and became proletarianized in the fight for justice...

I think its fair to say we have every right to support anybody, but we also shed criticism on them too, nobody's perfect and as along as I remember we stood by a simple rule, we learn from history. Take the good, leave the bad and create a 21 Century Marxism that reflects the successes of history, not its failures.

I would like to keep on going, but it's just so long and I just don't have the energy right now.

Maybe I'll touch on some things tomorrow but this is in a way silly the way this is coming out. It is as if the FPM was some powerful force like Hezbollah or something.

Eh, night everybody.



--Paz


P.S. May our beloved Chairman CDL have a good night sleep with the blessings of Castro and Guevara over his bed.

cenv
2nd December 2006, 04:35
When did this happen and why is this the first that I have heard of this?
Perhaps because of a lack of communication within the FPM.

Anyway, instead of simply dismissing our comments as ridiculous and saying nothing else, why don't you explain why the FPM made the decision to break relations with us?

Rawthentic
2nd December 2006, 04:38
You have brought up some good points comrade. The main reason that I have rifts with the FPM is the class question, which the League correctly stated in the statement I posted. Im in the fight for class struggle and proletarian revolution and I believe that the FPM has blurred the class question.

KC
2nd December 2006, 05:18
There is no leader or central leader and there never was, We elected delegates who represented their branch. The delegates as a whole made the decisions, not one person. We all vote and discuss issues that are brought up to the table.
...
When did this happen and why is this the first that I have heard of this?

:lol:

Nothing Human Is Alien
2nd December 2006, 05:22
Yeah, it's pretty funny that someone who "As of late .. ha[s]n't been directly involved since [he has] moved and still facing criminal charges.." wouldn't be aware that the FPM has stopped paying for the hosting of a website for an organization [i]that no longer exists.

LOL!

It's almost as funny as this ridiculous article.. :rolleyes:

Leo
2nd December 2006, 05:29
I was looking at the League website and I saw this picture;

http://www.communistleague.org/images/iwpa-avatar.gif

Which of course made me feel warm and fuzzy inside, but it was also interesting because this is the ICC logo. Anyway...

KC
2nd December 2006, 05:45
Yeah, it's pretty funny that someone who "As of late .. ha[s]n't been directly involved since [he has] moved and [is] still facing criminal charges.." wouldn't be aware

I assumed that a vote would have taken place regarding the split with the IWPA, and I'm also 95% sure that would have involved him. Am I wrong? Is he not on the ISC, or did a vote just not take place?


that the FPM has stopped paying for the hosting of a website for an organization that no longer exists.

I think you missed Miles' post:



The IWPA isn't "crumbling" or anything of the sort. True, the FPM seized the IWPA's website, but that's all they did (and all they got -- they didn't get the contact lists). The League and the Detroit Working People's Association are still part of the IWPA, and we are currently talking about where we go from here.

And the fact is that the FPM really didn't do a lot with the IWPA anyway. They were just there, so it's not like it's some big loss or something.

Miles


It's almost as funny as this ridiculous article..

The funny thing is that the FPM broke with the League because you threw a temper tantrum because I called you out on your bullshit and you couldn't handle it. Why is such a political move caused by such a petty personal dispute (all on the side of the FPM might I add)? Why did the FPM split with the IWPA right after this dispute happened? It sounds like this split was based on your inability to handle a little criticism. It sounds like it was based entirely on some personalistic bullshit. That's what's funny.

Goes a long way in showing how the FPM operates. Apparently the FPM is worried more about personal issues than political ones.

Rawthentic
2nd December 2006, 05:56
Yeah, I agree. Im not sure what basis CdL has to say that this article is ridiculous. Im so fuckin tired of the immature Guevarismo stuff, romanticising the guerilla struggle instead on focusing on building a political base. I despised the way they have obscured class relations, correctly mentioned in this article.

Martin Blank
2nd December 2006, 08:59
Originally posted by Zampanò@December 02, 2006 12:45 am
The funny thing is that the FPM broke with the League because you threw a temper tantrum because I called you out on your bullshit and couldn't handle it. Why is such a political move caused by such a petty personal dispute, all on the side of the FPM might I add? Why did the FPM split with the IWPA right after this dispute happened? It sounds like this split was based on your inability to handle a little criticism. It sounds like it was based entirely on some personalistic bullshit. That's what's funny.

Goes a long way in showing how the FPM operates. Apparently the FPM is worried more about personal issues than political ones.
Careful, comrade. He might threaten to stab you in the throat again for saying this.

Miles

KC
2nd December 2006, 09:00
Careful, comrade. He might threaten to stab you in the throat again for saying this.


Snakes don't have throats. ;)

Enragé
2nd December 2006, 12:29
oh for fuck sake

kiss and make up

this is just pathetic

yes you have your differences but your still on the fucking same side
not to mention i love you both :wub:
so that too is a reason to come together then

The left is split enough as it is
for fuck sake dont make it worse
Both the communist league and the FPM want to build a broad movement
dont fuck it up by *****ing at eachother for no clear reason

Nothing Human Is Alien
2nd December 2006, 13:01
I assumed that a vote would have taken place regarding the split with the IWPA, and I'm also 95% sure that would have involved him. Am I wrong? Is he not on the ISC, or did a vote just not take place?

What part of "As of late .. ha[s]n't been directly involved since [he has] moved and [is] still facing criminal charges.." don't you understand?


I think you missed Miles' post:

I think you and Miles missed reality. IWPA - FPM & FY = CL.


The funny thing is that the FPM broke with the League because you threw a temper tantrum because I called you out on your bullshit and you couldn't handle it.

Except for not at all. To quote your organizations ridiculous article: "Can you say 'security risk?'"


It sounds like this split was based on your inability to handle a little criticism. It sounds like it was based entirely on some personalistic bullshit.

Yeah I could see how it would sound like that ... if you were deaf.


Careful, comrade. He might threaten to stab you in the throat again for saying this.

Careful "comrade," if you keep bullshitting so much you may start to stink.

Nothing Human Is Alien
2nd December 2006, 13:11
That is the $64,000 question, isn't it? Unfortunately, it's not one I can answer. Only the FPM can answer it.

But yet, even as unable to answer as you are, you were able to draft a small book on the question. :lol:


The League and the Detroit Working People's Association are still part of the IWPA, and we are currently talking about where we go from here.

:lol: How is talking to yourself working out for ya?


I'm just questioning if anybody besides yourselves will take you as such.

Probably not, but that's never stopped them before... see, the Trotskyist League, for example.


h, and there's apparently a cult of personality around the Holy Thrinity of Che, Fidel and CdL.

It's true. All members of the FPM all around the world have pictures of me, Che and Fidel in their homes, which they offer fresh fruits too daily.

....


I have a question.

Does the FPM operates through democratic centralism?

Not in the traditional "Leninist" sense, no. If you're really interested I could show you some literature that explains it.


this is just pathetic

I agree.

loveme4whoiam
2nd December 2006, 14:26
Originally posted by CdL
It's true. All members of the FPM all around the world have pictures of me, Che and Fidel in their homes, which they offer fresh fruits too daily.
I know I do :wub:

Frankly, all this is over my head. But if the "true" reason for the Communist League's problem stems from the fact that the FPM doesn't restrict itself to interrogating each of its new members with "are you of the working class!!!?", then I would say get over it.

I would call anyone who has the destruction of capitalism as their ultimate goal a comrade, and to get hung up on someone&#39;s economic background unnecessarily alienates potential allies. That obviously isn&#39;t your dogma (hell, it might not be the FPM&#39;s line, its just how I look at things) is fair enough, but its a shame our organisations have to split, regardless of who "started it" <_<

bcbm
2nd December 2006, 14:45
its a shame our organisations have to split, regardless of who "started it"

Meh, its just the boring antics of boring individuals. I doubt the under-classes are going to give a shit about the plethora of organizations the left has wasted their time building when they get about overthrowing this mess, preferring instead to organize autonomously.

If anything, the leftist organizations will get in the way.

loveme4whoiam
2nd December 2006, 16:26
I doubt the under-classes are going to give a shit about the plethora of organizations the left has wasted their time building when they get about overthrowing this mess, preferring instead to organize autonomously.
A touch off-topic, but did that happen in Oaxaca? Since that&#39;s the most recent masses-driven movement (that I can think of :P), it&#39;d be interesting to see how Oaxaca worked in terms of the influence of leftist organisations.

Frankly BBBG, I think you may be right. I just think that conglomerate organisations working together, regardless of small (dare I say, sectarian) differences, towards a common goal would be better than a multitude of groups bickering about their differences instead of focusing on the bigger aim.

Severian
2nd December 2006, 16:56
Originally posted by Matthijs+December 01, 2006 07:35 pm--> (Matthijs &#064; December 01, 2006 07:35 pm) Oh, sure, I won&#39;t deny that you are all trying your hardest to sound as solemn and serious as you can. I&#39;m just questioning if anybody besides yourselves will take you as such. Again, 5 trots may feel very serious holding their national convention in a members&#39; bedroom, but it doesn&#39;t make them consequential. Of course, CL and FPM have done infinitely much more than that, but that just makes it worse: why does a union of two organisations that have accomplished quite a big deal offline, crumble over some petty disputes on MSN and RevLeft? [/b]
What have they accomplished offline? There&#39;s no evidence the Communist League, for example, has any existence outside cyberspace.

Except for one election campaign for Detroit school board, by Whatshername Weltman. Who, incidentally, is a college professor, and whose campaign website said she was qualified for the office because of her experience with administering a budget. How purely proletarian.

But wait, she was the candidate of the Detroit Working People&#39;s Association, which is definitely not a front group for the Communist League, as both CdeL and Miles have vehemently insisted. Funny how breaking with the Communist League also involves breaking with the DWPA and IWPA, then.

And that&#39;s it for verifiable real-world activity. If you believe the DWPA is not a front group, then discount even that: there is no evidence the CL exists in the physical universe.

As for the FPM:

[email protected] 01, 2006 09:34 pm

CdeL is the leader of the FPM?)
He&#39;s definitely a senior member for sure.

Considering how much time he spends on here, how much more could he be doing to lead a world-wide organization? Sure, I spend even more, but I don&#39;t claim to be the leader of a new revolutionary international.

With both "organizations" - especially the Communist League - their main form of political activity seems to be posting on this forum right here.

Which would explain why they seem to have split over things posted here......

BTW, who is Zampano? The Member Formerly Known as K. Communique and Before That Known as Lazar? If people are gonna constantly change their usernames, at least put something in your sig about it or something.....

Enragé
2nd December 2006, 17:16
I donno about the CL, but FPM sure is active, even though i reckon they&#39;re pretty small, its not like its an internet org.

http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?219
http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?201
http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?171

RebeldePorLaPAZ
2nd December 2006, 17:26
Oh snap, thats my picture in the second link. I&#39;m in red.

http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/prrally.jpg

:lol:

And let me add, the Che flag doesn&#39;t mean we have a cult personality. How many of you own a Che flag or Che shirt???

My point exactly.

*edit*
Here are other links too of things we have done as a small yet active organization.

http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?182
http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?82
http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?101


--Paz

Enragé
2nd December 2006, 18:12
Oh snap, thats my picture in the second link. I&#39;m in red.

hehe cool ^^
but err maybe not a good idea to post it here?


How many of you own a Che flag or Che shirt???


me&#33; me&#33; me&#33; (2 flags actually ^^)

RebeldePorLaPAZ
2nd December 2006, 18:19
Doesn&#39;t matter if I post it here, I mean my picture has been everywhere, especially in almost every newspaper in the Hartford County and TV news stations in Connecticut when we had the FPM led walkouts at my school and when I got arrested.

I&#39;ve been in more newspapers articles, front pages and TV appearances than CDL. Why should he hold title of &#39;cult figure&#39; it should be me&#33; :angry:

I shall overthrow him and rule the FPM. Muajaja :lol:



--Paz

bcbm
2nd December 2006, 18:22
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2006 10:26 am
A touch off-topic, but did that happen in Oaxaca? Since that&#39;s the most recent masses-driven movement (that I can think of :P), it&#39;d be interesting to see how Oaxaca worked in terms of the influence of leftist organisations.
I&#39;m afraid I haven&#39;t been following that situation too closely, but I&#39;d bet that the organization(s) involved have done their best to keep things "under control," and try to prevent people from getting too out-of-(their)hand.


Frankly BBBG, I think you may be right. I just think that conglomerate organisations working together, regardless of small (dare I say, sectarian) differences, towards a common goal would be better than a multitude of groups bickering about their differences instead of focusing on the bigger aim.

I&#39;m all for groups working together to accomplish things that improve the lives of the under-classes or further the undermining of the present order. Unfortunately most groups, big or small, cooperative or competitive, don&#39;t seem to do much of that.

mac1905
2nd December 2006, 18:46
This seem to me like the Sparts, and their quasileninist policy. Splits, splits and one more time splits.

Nothing Human Is Alien
2nd December 2006, 19:16
This seem to me like the Sparts, and their quasileninist policy. Splits, splits and one more time splits.

Except for not at all? We didn&#39;t "split" from the CL, we&#39;re two seperate organizations.


me&#33; me&#33; me&#33; (2 flags actually ^^)

Too say that too loudly. Upholding the theoretical contributions of el Che, or supporting his legacy in any way is nothing more than fostering a cult of personality... well, in the world of the CL anyway. Of course they had no problem with it before they we ended relations with them.


Considering how much time he spends on here, how much more could he be doing to lead a world-wide organization?

Who knows, ask Bob Avakian how much time he spends online? What about Barnes? How much of his time is spent enaging in the class struggle? I&#39;m not really sure how spending a few hours on a message boards precludes one from "leading a new revolutionary international."

It&#39;s all moot though, since as we&#39;ve made clear over and over again, there is no central leader in our organization..


Sure, I spend even more, but I don&#39;t claim to be the leader of a new revolutionary international.

Nor does anyone else here, as far as I know... except the sock puppet MLS.


With both "organizations" - especially the Communist League - their main form of political activity seems to be posting on this forum right here.

Yeah.. except.. few of our members actually do that. As for me, I&#39;m on house arrest; and before that I was posting in between editing / writing and website updating and while while "working".

But I mean, if you want to ignore all the things we&#39;ve done.. running 9 candidates in the Solomon Islands, leading major school walkouts, holding dozens of pickets and protests, etc. feel free.. It says more about you than us.

Of course, we&#39;re not the great SWP-vanguard; but we&#39;ve done alot on in our few years of existance.. enough to get the notice of the state. And we continue to grow.


But wait, she was the candidate of the Detroit Working People&#39;s Association, which is definitely not a front group for the Communist League, as both CdeL and Miles have vehemently insisted. Funny how breaking with the Communist League also involves breaking with the DWPA and IWPA, then.

The IWPA was formed by us, the CL, and the International Weekly Group (which we encouraged to join). The IWG is defunct, and we left, leaving only the CL. The DWPA is more certainly a front for the CL (though that was denied in the beginning, it didn&#39;t take long to find out the truth).

Nothing Human Is Alien
2nd December 2006, 19:49
Well, here&#39;s a draft of our response to the CL, if anyone gives a fuck (and I&#39;m sure you do). It&#39;s due to be edited and included in the next issue of Liberation. I wouldn&#39;t have posted it, but since the CL insists on attacking us here, it seems like a reasonable thing to do. We&#39;re not going to waste alot of time on this, as it does little to further the class struggle; but we couldn&#39;t let such slander go unanswered.

* * * *

A league of their own: The break in relations the Communist League provoked leaves them further isolated from the class struggle

On November 30, the Communist League (CL) released a slanderous and dishonest article critical of the Free People’s Movement, in response to our earlier decision to cut off formal ties with their organization (the reasons for which will be explained below).

Unlike many other organizations that claim to be revolutionary, we are oriented towards our exploited sisters and brothers, not towards other leftists. We focus all of our efforts on political work – including the writing and publication of articles – that furthers, or has the potential to further, the fight of the worlds oppressed majority for liberation from oppression and exploitation. We purposely avoid unnecessary jargon, rigid dogmatism and doctrinairism*, and disputes over irrelevant issues from the past.

Instead, we speak in our everyday language – the language of the oppressed – and work to relate the liberating and living theories originally laid out by Karl Marx and Frederick Engels, and continued by people like Ernesto ‘Che’ Guevara and the workers and farmers that carried out revolutions in Russia, Cuba, Nicaragua, etc., to the everyday situations of our co-workers, classmates, family members, friends, acquaintances, and other sisters and brothers that we come in contact with.

We avoid the kind of petty back and forth bickering and sectarianism that many groups (especially those that the CL has its roots in, as we’ll explain below) have taken part in over the years, to avoid the self-imposed isolation from the living class struggle that those same groups have fallen into.

Still, we’ve decided to respond to this particular article in order to refute the lies put forward in it, and to clarify our stance. We do this not with the intention of stirring up the type of bitter feuds that far too many leftist groupings have, and continue to engage in (or more correctly, continuing the feud that the CL has tried to stir up), rather, we do so to put the issue to rest.

* Though it is sometimes correct to be uncompromising on certain issues, in a general sense, it is usually bad policy.

The truth vs. the world of make believe

Even the first line of the CL’s article contains falsehoods, so it seems proper that we begin by addressing it.

The CL says they were notified of our decision to cut ties with them by “the leader of the Free People’s Movement.”

This is complete slander, aimed at making our organization appear “authoritarian” (as they later claim openly) to people not familiar with our internal organization.

The truth is that our organization has no single leader. In the years following our formation, each individual branch carried out its work in accordance with our Manifesto, which was created by our founding members after much discussion and debate, without the direction of any central leadership body.

In early 2005, as we expanded greatly, and on a world scale, the need for a body capable of handling questions on an immediate basis became clear. It was at our International Conference held later that year that we established the International Steering Committee (ISC), a body “made up of one cadre [elected by the FPM members of their country] for every country in which a branch of the FPM exists” (Organizational and Procedural Program of the Free People&#39;s Movement). The creation of the ISC was initiated by a proposal originally introduced by the New York Branch, and later approved by all other branches. This is the typical method through which decisions are made. When the ISC does make a decision on an immediate issue, it must later be ratified by the rest of our members. Finally, all members of the ISC are subject to recall at all times.

In the same lead-off sentence that the CL speaks of a mythical “leader of the Free People’s Movement,” they attempt to paint our method of notifying them of our decision to cut ties – and the reasons for the decision – as unscrupulous. As we made clear to the CL at the time, our organization was forced to cut all ties with them as a result of serious security concerns prompted by the actions of one of their members.

These concerns stemmed from the unprovoked and hostile actions of a CL member, who, on a public internet message board, attempted to reveal personal information about an FPM member, in an unprincipled, frustrated outburst. Unable to deal with earlier political criticism of his organization and its individual members, this member attempted to embarrass and defame an FPM comrade, with little regard (or intentional disregard?) for what may have resulted. Even the owner of the internet message board in question was taken aback by the action of the CL member – so much so, he hid the discussion in question from public view, after first allowing our FPM comrade to defend himself (it should be noted that at the same time, several other participants on the message board, unrelated to our organization, defended our comrade against the unprovoked attacks as well).

Our organization has existed for a few years now, and our members have carried out quite a bit of work in several parts of the world. As a result of our continued fight for the liberation of humanity – which can only be accomplished through socialist revolution – we have run into a series of conflicts with the ruling classes, and their representatives, in many of the countries in which we operate. Our comrades have been (and continue to be) harassed, attacked, arrested, jailed and threatened with death, on more than one occasion, and in more than one location. Our comrades accept the repercussions of their actions, but must also take care to defend themselves from them. We cannot go into full detail, but for obvious reasons, it is some times necessary for comrades to keep their identities, locations and activities private. The CL obviously understands this, as it is an entirely clandestine organization itself&#33; It is important to note, however, that our comrades have taken such steps only where absolutely necessary, in response to attacks prompted by their public political work. The CL on the other hand, started out clandestine, as an organizational principle for all members, claiming the need for doing so to prevent oppression from the capitalist state. Leaving aside the fact that comrade Huey Newton of the defunct Black Panther Party correctly argued against this sort of thing (i.e. starting out as a clandestine organization) several years ago, we’d also like to point out that being “clandestine,” especially in the age of the internet, can also be used as an excuse to avoid actually doing anything in the real world, and/or being accountable.

So here it was that a clandestine member of a clandestine group, to which we were affiliated(&#33;), was attempting to publicly “out” the identity and some personal history one of our comrades, who was, and continues to be tied up in situations that require that information to be protected.

To be specific, the FPM comrade in question was Ricardo Santiago, who was arrested and imprisoned in March, after returning from the Dominican Republic, accused of defrauding the U.S. government out of a few thousand dollars (see: “Defend the Free People&#39;s Movement and its members&#33;,” The Free Press, Volume 2, Issue 5). Comrade Ricardo’s arrest came as a number of attacks against our organization, including the arrest of another comrade, Francisco Acevedo, in the U.S. In response, we launched a defense campaign, which received the full support of the CL, among others.

Months later, the devious CL member criticized that defense campaign, on the grounds that Comrade Ricardo was not a “political prisoner” (which are words our organization had never used to describe him anyway&#33;). He presented a number of (what he thought were) aspects of the case, and attacked our comrade as a “criminal.” In pursuing his own personal vendetta, this person’s took actions that served (or potentially served) the interests of no one but those who seek to attack our organization because of its revolutionary nature.

The information (or misinformation, as we’ll explain) this person made public was given by comrade Ricardo to two members of the CL in confidentiality in January of 2006. Having only had established relations with the CL months earlier, we made a conscious decision, as a security precaution, to limit the vital information we shared with them, and even to provide some (non-vital) misinformation. We make no apologies for doing so (and the actions of the CL have justified our decision). In that situation we had to be very careful in our dealings with an organization, which for all we knew at the time, may have been infiltrated or even lead by agents of the state – especially in discussing matters relevant to a comrade wanted by federal law enforcement (as our comrade was)&#33;

Even still, the CL, going on the misinformation we provided (which differed a bit from the actual details of comrade Ricardo’s case), supported the campaign to defend our movement and its members (which included the defense of comrade Ricardo). They published an editorial in their paper, Working People’s Advocate, calling for comrade Ricardo’s defense and immediate release from prison (see: “As we go to press..,” Working People’s Advocate, Volume 2, Number 7), and even held a demonstration as a part of that campaign (see: “Demonstrations in defense of FPM take place across the U.S.,” The Free Press, Volume 2, Issue 7). It was only months later, as certain members of the CL became offended by criticisms our members had raised against them, that the devious CL member attacked comrade Ricardo and our organization (after our defense campaign had drawn to a close&#33;). So... they thought comrade Ricardo worthy of defense for several months (as late as August 26, their press reported that comrade Ricardo ... [was] awaiting sentencing on charges stemming from past political activity), and only later, in November, after becoming angered over criticisms and our refusal to take on their flawed outlook, they decided he was a “criminal” who deserved to go to jail.

In his angry tirade, the CL member accused us of dishonesty for describing comrade Ricardo as a political prisoner (which we never actually did). The only time the words “political prisoner” were used in reference to Comrade Ricardo that we can find, other than by the disgruntled CL member himself, was in an unofficial email, circulated on some mailing lists and message boards on the internet by an individual member of the FPM. The intentions of the CL member are made clear by the fact that the description of comrade Ricardo as a political prisoner appears in none of the official literature used in our defense campaign, or on our website, but only on an obscure, unofficial email message that was barely distributed.

None of this means that we did or didn’t consider comrade Ricardo a political prisoner; we are simply pointing out the facts, to refute the CL’s slander. Our outlook on the question of “political prisoners,” which is an important one, will be discussed in a future issue of Liberation.

In their recent article, the CL says that “in the course of this exchange between our member and the leader of the FPM [sic], it came out that this comrade, and the FPM as a whole, was less than forthcoming about the details of the case ... choosing instead to pick and choose which facts to tell us.” It then goes on to claim that “This understandably angered League members, including our comrade who was in the midst of this exchange. The result was that our comrade became very angry with the FPM leader [sic] and let him know it [emphasis added].”

Here we enter the realm of absolute fairy tale and the revision of documented (though fairly unimportant) history.

The CL member began his attacks on comrade Ricardo and our organization before he became aware that he was misinformed on the details of the case&#33; If he “became very angry,” it could only have been because his attempt to discredit and slander comrade Ricardo and our movement blew up in his face like an exploding cigar.

Later in their article, the CL claims comrade Ricardo, again falsely referred to as “the leader of the FPM,” threatened “physical violence against, other members of the League,” for “daring to criticize him.” According to the CL, comrade Ricardo said the CL member who attacked him deserved to be “stabbed in the throat.” More from the world of make believe&#33;

To be exact, in the private conversation between comrade Ricardo and “Miles,” a leader of the CL, in which our decision to cut ties with that organization was announced, Ricardo expressed his serious disappointment with the actions of the CL member that attempted to “out” aspects of his private life that needed to remain private for the time being. After being rebuffed by “Miles,” comrade Ricardo simply reminded him that in many real life situations, folks wouldn’t take kindly to the sort of treacherous actions carried out by the CL member in question. He pointed out that many people, including possibly even himself in the past, would react violently to such a betrayal. No threats of physical violence against any members of the CL were ever made.

Unworthy? No. Traitorous? Yes.

In the next section of the CL’s article claims that “.. the basis upon which the FPM broke relations with the League is personalistic and apolitical. One of our members criticized their leader, and thus we were declared unworthy of working with them. It is as simple as that.”

As we explained above, our decision to cut ties with the CL had nothing to do with “criticism,” and everything to do with security. Although this breach of trust had no real effects on our organization, it could have, and it pointed to the very real possibility of more serious acts of treachery in the future.

We simply could not risk endangering any of our members by remaining connected to such an unprincipled organization that responded to criticism with personal attacks, slander and the publication of information that was meant to be kept private.

A question of leadership, or outright dishonesty?

Next, the CL claims in their article that they had, for a long time, developed “concerns about the relationship within the FPM between its leadership and membership.” Comical, being that in all of the many long conversations between representatives of the two organizations, this issue was not once raised by anyone in the CL. In fact, it was the other way around. A representative of the FPM actually attempted to open a dialogue on whether or not an organization such as the CL should have a Central Committee.

The CL claims that “During the period when this leading member of the FPM [comrade Ricardo] was in jail, the organization nearly collapsed: branches went inactive or defected to other organizations; ‘secondary leadership’ dropped out of politics; other leading members began to make unprincipled public statements.” Wrong on all counts.

The FPM did not come anywhere near collapse while comrade Ricardo was in prison. In fact, as a result of recent efforts in the Dominican Republic, and the defense campaign being waged in the U.S., the organization experienced massive growth during the two months the comrade spent in prison and the time immediately after his release – so much so, that it was almost more than we could handle at the time.

No “branches went inactive or defected to other organizations.” This is little more than another attempt to discredit our organization by revealing internal business that we shared with members of the CL in confidence, as comrades. But they either got confused, or purposely misconstrued what actually happened.

Months before comrade Ricardo was arrested, the delegate of our Tamil Nadu, India Branch split with our organization to join the reformist Communist Party of India (Marxist). Because this member was the main contact for the branch, his departure left the rest of our movement unable to communicate with several comrades in Tamil Nadu. After much work, we were able to reestablish communications and ties with some, but others had joined the branch delegate in his departure. Again, no branches “defected” or “went inactive” during comrade Ricardo’s imprisonment.

Equally, our “‘secondary leadership’” never “dropped out of politics,” mainly because no “secondary leadership exists (as explained earlier). Again, the CL is attempting to use internal, private information we shared with them as comrades to slander us; but again, they come up short. With this statement, we can only guess that the CL is referring to comrade Dee, a former member of our New York Branch. Comrade Dee showed a lot of potential and dedication, and quickly took on a number of responsibilities in our organization, including speaking at a number of events that we were invited to. Unfortunately, she was forced to leave our organization due to a number of personal issues (unlike the CL, we wont publish personal information about former-comrades, but it her reasons for leaving had nothing to do the FPM itself). Comrade Dee left in early April, before comrade Ricardo was arrested. Only in the make believe world of the CL could Dee have known weeks ahead of time that comrade Ricardo would be arrested, and drop out of politics because of it.

Furthermore, the CL’s assertion that “other leading members began to make unprincipled public statements” is laughable to say the least. Revealingly, they provide no such statements. Of course this is very rich coming from a group who’s members have publicly made sexist and anti-Semitic comments in the past (see below).

Delusions of grandeur

As the CL’s article continues, they claim that while comrade Ricardo was in prison, “the FPM was pushing repeatedly for merger discussions with the League. For several months, League members were repeatedly asked to join the FPM, help with their organizational work, assist them in writing, editing and producing issues of their newspaper, The Free Press, etc.”

First the CL claimed that comrade Ricardo was “the leader” of our organization. Next they claimed that while he was in prison, “the organization nearly collapsed.” How could it be that while our leader, whom according to the CL we wholly depend on, was in prison, and as our organization “nearly collapsed,” that we were “pushing repeatedly for merger discussions with the League?”

It is true that we reached out the CL (apparently mistakenly) as comrades to help with the layout of a single issue of The Free Press. Being as we had cooperated with, and were affiliated to the CL, we didn’t know this was a problem. At the time, our entire membership was dedicated to the defense campaign we had launched. One member of the Press Committee, comrade Ricardo, who had normally done the layout of The Free Press, was in prison, and others were deeply involved in the fight to free him. We sent completed articles to “Miles,” the editor of the CL’s publications, and asked him to lay them out as an issue of The Free Press. This was never done, but it seems it was enough of an imposition for the CL to bring it up today. It appears the CL has dug deep into its collective memory to opportunistically dredge up anything and everything they could exaggerate to slander our organization.

The CL also seems to have delusions of grandeur (i.e. a symptom of mental illness marked by delusions of greatness). The FPM, and its publications existed before the CL came to be, and we’ll continue to exist after they implode like their political forebears (which we’ll discuss more below).

Long after the issue that we had asked the CL to assist us with was published, the CL arrogantly submitted its version of what they thought our paper, The Free Press, should look like. The layout was immediately turned down by our Press Committee and membership, which decided to continue with the layout we had been using.

A lack of enthusiasm?

The article by the CL states our response to a proposal for cooperation approved by their Central Committee was “less than enthusiastic.” This is, at least in part, correct – though not in the way the CL means it.

The FPM had been in existence for about two years when we were approached by the newer “Communist League.” What we had seen as a common sense approach to organization (i.e. allowing only working class people, and their allies, voice and vote in a revolutionary communist organization), the CL had elevated – almost religiously – to the highest of principles. They were enthusiastic in finding us, and admittedly, we were glad that they did. In the earliest stages of contact, there were many discussions and proposals that drew great enthusiasm from our membership. We agreed to cooperate and formerly affiliate through the creation of the International Working People’s Association (IWPA). The membership of our youth wing, the Revolutionary Youth also agreed to affiliate. On top of this, we reached out to a contact in a UK-based group that published a newspaper called International Weekly. To this new organization, the CL brought itself and ... itself. To be more clear, the CL and the “Detroit Working People’s Association,” a CL front group (more on this later), signed on to the founding document of the IWPA, “An Open Letter to the Working People of the World” (available on our website, www.fpm-mgl.org). Tellingly, the same outlook and politics that we have today, that have drawn such criticism from the CL since our decision to cut our ties with them, drew zero criticism then.

From the outset we sought to cooperate with the CL on a number of campaigns and actions. We invited the CL to participate in a number of activities that we were carrying out. We sought to find new ways for our organizations to work together. The result? Very little. For every proposal accepted by the CL, ten were rejected, ignored or even worse, “accepted” but never acted upon. Throughout this whole period, members of both the FPM and CL discussed a merger between the two organizations (contrary to the claims by the CL that it was us alone “[pushing ] repeatedly for merger discussions with the League.”). The same goes for the false claim that we “repeatedly asked [CL members] to join the FPM.” Joint membership was something both parties discussed, and that was originally proposed by “Miles&#33;” To be exact, at one point, FPM members were welcomed to join the CL.

Through several discussions, it became obvious that our members didn’t want to “take the plunge” into joint membership or a merger. There were many concerns that we would lose our organizational autonomy (the preservation of which we demanded at the outset of talks with the CL), and that the CL would attempt to pull us away from our correct analysis of Cuba as a socialist (workers) state (among other things).

Despite this, we never took the option off the table, and we continued to push for closer unity in action, and cooperation. The more we pushed for this however, the less the CL was willing to do. Many times responses to our messages and proposals would be greatly delayed, or would not come at all. So yes, after months and months of this, many of our members became turned off to the CL, and began to see their “clandestine” organization as an excuse for inactivity and armchair socialism. Enthusiasm waned; and for good reason.

It has been our experience, as an organization in which “white” comrades are a minority* (even in the U.S., where the left is made up almost entirely of white males), that leftist groups and individuals seeking some sort of “credibility” have a tendency to try to associate with us. Of course, we are not against association and concrete unity, but we obviously must avoid such unprincipled “comrades.” We are not saying that CL fits this description, but we also aren’t entirely ruling it out. More than a few comrades have expressed concern from the beginning that the CL was another group seeking to affiliate with us in search of credibility. To be honest, there’s no real way to know for sure, though this sentiment likely contributed to a draining of enthusiasm as well.

* To be clear, this is not a result of some sort of policy aimed at limiting white members. Rather, it seems to be a reflection of our organizational methods and our appeal to the most exploited sections of the working class.

Speaking of cults...

The CL’s article continues by claimed that our organization has a “trend ... toward the cult of personality.” They base this ridiculous assertion on our support for the revolutionary government of socialist Cuba and the fact that we uphold the theoretical contributions of Ernesto ‘Che’ Guevara. Further, they again slander our organization by claiming our “leader ... is above criticism ... internally or externally.”

Again, we have no single leader. But we’ll humor the CL, knowing that they are again referring to comrade Ricardo. The CL has absolutely no basis for its assertion that comrade Ricardo is “above criticism” from other members of the FPM. This is illustrated by their lack of even anecdotal evidence to support their claim. As for the claim that comrade Ricardo is “above ... external criticism,” we can only be reminded of the old saying about people who live in glass houses. As we’ve shown, the CL’s “criticisms” of our organization coincidentally came pouring out only after we cut off ties with them. Likewise, the CL member’s attempt to discredit comrade Ricardo came after criticisms were raised against the actions of their individual members.

As for our support of the revolutionary Cuban government and el Che, we make no apologies. Comrade Che made a number of (often ignored) contributions to revolutionary working class theory. Like Comrade Fidel, he played a major part in leading one of the most significant revolutions in world history. Further, he sacrificed his very life in the international workers’ struggle.

The CL’s claims that we see comrades Che and Fidel as “larger-than-life figures, seemingly standing above both social and human development,” are unfounded. Certainly, the CL didn’t feel this way (or at least didn’t admit it) when one of their leading members said an article by the Revolutionary Youth on Che Guevara “[gave] life and meaning to what has become a ‘radical chic’ icon in capitalist society” (“From the editor,” Workers Unity, No. 2, Winter 2005).

The CL goes on to make more baseless claims about our supposed “cult of personality” based around comrades Che and Fidel – again, without even the slightest evidence to back up their claims.

The CL too again slanders our organization by claiming that comrade Ricardo is “treated as something of an icon (and martyr, after his most recent time in prison).” This is as baseless as the other allegations. Again, zero proof is presented to back the claim. Apparently, readers of the CL’s article are supposed to take the word of its author/s at face value.

The CL’s only “evidence” of the supposed “cult of personality” around comrade Ricardo is that ... a series of essays written by him once appeared on our website. Most of those essays no longer appear on the site, as the CL admits. Apparently, the “cult of personality” temporarily disappeared (as most of the essays were removed from the website), but returned later as ... Ricardo recently wrote a book, which was made available freely on our website. The CL is really grasping at straws here. Laughably, a number of writings by “Miles,” authored under a number of pseudonyms (or lack thereof), appear on the website of the CL.

Of course, there is no problem with a member of a revolutionary organization contributing to the organization’s publications, website or other media. The CL is again attempting to opportunistically use everything it can think of against our organization, even if they have to “invent” facts, exaggerate and/or make something out of nothing. The CL claims to have a problem with the appearance of articles by comrade Ricardo on our website – as a sign of a “cult of personality” – but by their own admission, these articles appeared before they contacted us about cooperation&#33;

And how rich it is for the CL to claim our organization fosters a “cult of personality,” when it’s leaders come directly from actual cults like the Revolutionary Workers’ League and the International Bolshevik Tendency&#33;

That’s right, the political origins of the founders and leaders of the Communist League lie in groups like the obscure RWL. The few people who have heard of the RWL know that it was a fringe group that engaged more in disrupting the activities of other leftist organizations than carrying out any actual work of value. It is also known by some for the odd relationships that went on within it (including certain members complete control over every aspect of other members’ lives, forced orgies, etc.). None of this has anything to do with genuine organizations and individuals fighting for the liberation of humanity, but that didn’t stop the founders of the CL from joining&#33;

But it doesn’t end there. Unable to work with well with others for any extended period of time, the key leadership of the CL has made its way through a myriad of organizations over the years, including the reformist Communist Party, the ultra-sectarian and cultish Spartacist League (which is also known for disrupting the activities of other leftists), the International Bolshevik Tendency (a cultish split from the Spartacist League, like the RWL), the reformist International Socialist Organization, the reformist Socialist Party, and a host of insignificant groups (which they often played a part in creating) like the “Marxist Workers’ Group” and “Workers’ Voice.”

Although we could, we will not stoop to the level of the CL by revealing the names of the founding members to which we refer. On the other hand, we have no problem revealing the cultish backgrounds of “comrades” who slander us with accusations of a “cult of personality.”

We have no doubts the founders of the CL will be angered by this, and will respond with lies aimed at covering up their history. But the facts are publically available to all who care to do a little work finding them (though honestly, we doubt many do).

Very classy

The CL claims the “root issue” behind our decision to cut ties with their organization is class – the very issue that united us a little more than a year ago&#33;

According to the CL, we “back[ed] away from a strong stance on class.” As proof, they offer the claim that “Increasingly, articles in The Free Press and other FPM literature began to speak of a vague ‘working class and its allies.’”

This is more of the same dishonesty from the CL. The Manifesto of the Free People’s Movement, which was written at our formation, a year before the CL came into existence, spoke of the working class and its allies. The CL admits its “members spent a great deal of time reading through the materials available through [our] website,” which can only lead us to the conclusion that here they are again being purposely dishonest.

The CL claims that because we recognize that the working class has allies, we are capitulating to the petty bourgeoisie. Nothing could be further from the truth. As our manifesto states, “due to its role in society the working class (the exploited majority which creates all wealth) is the only class capable of leading a successful revolution.” The CL knows this, because it quotes this very passage later in its article&#33;

The CL admits that we identify the allies of the working class as (small) farmers and in some cases sections of the lumpenproletariat; but it claims that we “qualify” our words by saying these are only “some of” our allies. Again, no sources of proof of any sort are given (and as a quick search of our website, which contains almost all of the literature we have published over the years that we have never used these “qualifiers”). The fact is that the allies of the working class are not static. At different times, and in different situations, these allies may change. Certain classes, such as the bourgeoisie, will always be the enemies of workers; but in imperialist-oppressed countries for example, small artisans, street vendors, and members of the “little” or poor peasantry (who make up the lower end of the petty bourgeoisie) can, in certain situations, be won over to the cause of socialism, and thus become allies. None of this changes the fact that it is the working class which much lead if a revolution is to be successful. Nor does it change the fact that we do not allow bosses, or their agents or protectors, into our organization (which was the primary basis for our unity with the CL to begin with).

The CL has nerve claiming we ignore or “back away” from the class question, while it runs candidates in the small-time capitalist Green Party&#33; Of course, it doesn’t publicize these campaigns in its press (more “clandestine” activity?), and likewise, the websites and literature of its Green Party campaigns make no mention of communism (at least one of its candidates went as far as supporting thinly-veiled calls for protectionism U.S. in a candidates’ survery&#33;) But yet we are the ones “back away from a strong stance on class?&#33;?”

Yes Virginia, proletarianization does exist&#33;

The CL claims to take issue with the assertion by one of our members, again on an internet message board, that comrade Fidel left behind his petty-bourgeois class background and became proletarianized.

The CL chose to ignore of explanation of how, and when, this process occurred, to make way for their claim that we somehow think comrade Fidel’s “‘good deeds’ outweigh his class background and ‘social being’.”

Comrade Marx explained the process of proletarianization many years ago. He pointed out the fact that some members of the petty bourgeois would be forced down into the working class by the very nature of capitalism, while some others would leave their class backgrounds behind and voluntarily join the proletarian side in open class conflict. The CL clearly recognizes this, as it shares our view that comrade Marx himself became proletarianized. They also claim comrade Engels was proletarianized, something we have not yet taken a formal stance on.

In another baseless attack, the CL claims we judge class on one’s income, as if we were some liberal idealists&#33; We fully understand class as explained by comrades Marx and Engels so many years ago, and it shows in our work and outlook.

Again, the CL bitterly brings up an issue now, after we cut ties from their organization. In the earliest days of contact, and indeed again later, members of our organization clearly explained that comrades Che and Fidel had become proletarianized through the course of their lives. Then, it was apparently not an issue, for whatever reason (we have some ideas). Now, we are severely criticized because of it (though our actual explanation is not).

Sectarianism as an excuse for abstentionism

The CL goes on to criticize our cooperation with a committee struggling to build a day to shut down the way machine in the U.S. – a campaign which they once seemed enthusiastic about – on purely sectarian grounds.

They claim the day, with the stated goal of “literally bring[ing] the war machine, which relies on all of us to function, to a screeching halt,” is some how comparable to the Revolutionary Communist Party’s “World Can’t Wait” campaign, which seeks to “drive Bush from office.”

Of course the two have nothing in common. We are fighting, along side several other groups and individuals, to launch a one-day general strike, during which there will be no working, no school, and no shopping, to shut down the imperialist juggernaut from inside. This has nothing to do with the “World Can’t Wait” campaign, which panders to liberals looking to get a Democrat into the presidential position

(The RCP seems think just the act of Bush being “driven from office” would create a revolutionary situation. We disagree. We participated in “World Can’t Wait” events in the past, under our own slogan: “Drive out the Bush Regime and the capitalist system it represents&#33;”)

The CL even claims that the campaign for a general strike against the war is somehow [i]less principled than the RCP’s tailing of radical liberals&#33; The base this absurd claim on the fact that the committee calling for the general strike has welcomed “union officials, artists, musicians and other interested individuals” to endorse their call, and participate in the strike. Leaving aside the fact that some artists, musicians and union officials belong the working class, we must point out one thing: it’s a one time action. The basis for the strike, and the principles on which its based, have already been laid down, by members of the working class. We have no problem with a well known musician supporting and publicizing the strike if it will help us mobilize the working class to shut down the war machine&#33; Likewise, we have no problem with a petty bourgeois student putting up posters and stickers at their campus to promote a one day general strike&#33;

Despite our decision to cut ties from the CL for security reasons (and with an underlying political basis), we invited them to endorse the call for a general strike, and to participate in building for, and promoting it. They refused to even respond. Of course they use political rhetoric to explain away their abstentionism, but a glimpse beneath the surface shows that it’s based on nothing more than petty sectarianism, of the sort elevated to principle by some of the groups the CL’s founders belonged to not so long ago.

Authentic communist organizations take any and all actions they can that are in the interest of the working class. A general strike in the bastion of world imperialism is definitely in the interests of working people everywhere. The CL refuses to participate in building for a general strike, but explains its participation in the liberal World Can’t Wait campaign by saying it had the “capacity to draw small but militant sections of working people to its events,” while according to them, the campaign to Shut Down The War Machine, which appeals directly to working people to utilize their united power to stop the wars on Iraq and Afghanistan, does not.

Again, it’s rich for the CL to criticize us for taking part in a “front,” which we openly admit, while they continue to pretend that the Detroit Working People’s Association is an organization separate from their own, and that the IWPA continues to exist (still more on this later).

Don’t mourn, organize&#33;

As the CL admits, a major reason it became critical of our organization was out of anger at the creation of the Young Soldiers for Change (YSFC), an anti-capitalist “action group.”

The CL falsely claims the YSFC was formed directly by our organization; and incorrectly claims it is “some sort of paramilitary organization.”

As we explained to the CL in previous correspondence, we, as an organization, had very little to do with the formation of the YSFC. Some members of the FPM and Revolutionary Youth gave advice and guidance on the formation of such an organization to a number of youths who sought it out; but there was no “official action” on the part of the FPM or RY as a whole.

As we also explained to the CL previously (though comrades in the YSFC may have been able to do a better, or at least more detailed job), the YSFC is an action group, not a “paramilitary group.” One can only guess the CL’s motivation in calling it that.

The CL’s problem with the creation of the YSFC has less to do with the creation of the actual organization itself (and even less to do with class), than it does with their opposition to our organizational autonomy. From the beginning it seems the CL has seen our organization more as potential recruiting grounds, than an ally in struggle. Apparently they thought they could drag us away from our communist principles and into their sectarian den.

This is made clear in the way they arrogantly feign their disappointment that they were unable to show us the correct path (as determined by them, though their superior intellect and grasp of the class struggle).

In this case, they insisted that our agreement to work together on forming Workers’ Self-Defense Corps (which was a joint proposal, not something they came up alone, as they claim in their article) meant that our members could not belong to, or help organize the YSFC. We made it clear to the CL that the YSFC and Workers Self-Defense Corps (WSDC) had little in common, and expressed our desire to move forward with the creation of the WSDC.

The CL claims that “military manuals” are posted on the website of the YSFC; and they point to this as evidence that we lied to them about the YSFC not being a self-defense organization. We searched the website of the YSFC thoroughly, and even contacted the people in charge of it, and guess what? There are no such manuals. Again the CL’s fake ideological cover for their sectarianism falls short.

Stubbornly, the CL continues to levels criticisms against the YSFC and its class content as if it were one in the same with the FPM, even after we explained several times that it’s not. They try their hardest to discredit us, but over and over again they fail.

The CL also continues their attempt to make our internal organization, discussions and plans public in a completely unprincipled manner, for their own narrow goals. Again, they show that our decision to limit, and even slightly modify, the private information we shared with them, was completely justified.

Cuba is a socialist country

As this article has already drawn on much longer than the subject deserves, we won’t go to far into detail on the question of Cuba. We have done so in the past in our publications (see back issues of The Free Press and Rebel Yell&#33;), and plan to do so more in the future.

The CL calls our support for Cuba, the only socialist country in the world today, “uncritical cheerleading.” They do this because we refuse to take the side of the imperialists against a socialist society&#33;

The CL knows very well, from correspondence between individuals in our organizations, that we have been critical of certain actions of the Cuban government in the past. But in our view, none of these issues have been series enough to criticize in our publications. Our publications are aimed at working people, most of whom have never been exposed to revolutionary theory before. It is therefor much more important to publicize the immense accomplishments of socialist Cuba and defend it against imperialist slander than it is to criticize much less significant policies or actions that we may disagree with. Working people around the world here enough critical words about Cuba (most of which are based on lies), it’s our job to offer them the truth about a country in which illiteracy, homelessness and starvation have been eliminated; in which imperialist domination has been thrown off; and in which working people have taken power.

The CL claims that we don’t talk about what makes Cuba socialist, ignoring the content of articles they go on to quote&#33;

Furthermore, we have described socialism in several publications, including our Manifesto and the book by Ricardo Santiago that the CL seems to be so obsessed with. And, as the CL says, we assert that Cuba is socialist. It doesn’t take a genius to put the two together.

The CL criticizes our assertion that the leadership of the Cuban revolution has always been honest with the Cuban people. They base this criticism not on any proof to the contrary, but on lies, slander, and in one case (the treatment of gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people decades ago) a serious mistake – that the revolutionary leadership has publicly admitted, in a completely honest fashion.

Next the CL will dig up some lies from “Reporters Without Borders” to slander the politics of organizations that cut off relations with it.

Once again, we want to point out that our position on Cuba is the same position we held before the CL reached out to us for cooperation.

If you can’t recognize socialism in the real world...

The CL goes on to criticize us because we don’t have “a theor[y] of our own for the assertion that [Cuba] is a ‘socialist society.’”

They’re right, having no need for “a theory of our own,” we’ve stuck with communist theory, as it has been developed through the successes and failures of the working class over the last few hundred years.

It is this theory that defines socialism, and it is through the application of this theory that we recognize Cuba for what it is, a socialist state.

The CL knows very well that we understand Cuba to be socialist as a result of serious study. They understood this well when they came to us for answers to their questions on Cuba (which they admit in their article), ostensibly asked so they could make up their own minds.

So, apparently, we know enough about Cuba to help them make a decision as to whether or not it is socialist; but we’re two “idealistic” to decide for ourselves, based on those same facts&#33;

The CL criticizes a proposal by our Oregon Branch, made in October, to break off relations with the CL on their refusal to recognize Cuba as socialist (among other things). While this proposal did not pass, it brought up some good points.

There’s a saying among communists that goes something like “If one can’t recognize a socialist (workers’) revolution in another part of the world, it’s very likely they won’t be able to recognize, or correctly fight for one in their own country.”

The CL claims that we demand that all organizations seeking to work with us share our understanding of Cuba as socialist. This is a complete falsehood, as they well know.

As we pointed out to the CL in a letter dated September 26, 2006, “When we first agreed on cooperation ... we made it very clear that we wanted to maintain our organizational autonomy. ... The difference between our organization and yours on the question of Cuba ... among other
things, has shown that this was the correct position to take.

“We do have similar outlooks on many questions however, and this has facilitated the close and fraternal relationship between us, and allowed for us to come together in the formation of the International Working People&#39;s Association (IWPA).”

This is more proof of the dishonesty on the part of the CL in their drive to attack us by any means.

The CL claims now, after we cut off ties with them, that we have “abandon[ed] most (if not all) of the theoretical foundations [we] had that initially brought our two organizations closer.” What a pathetic attempt to save face&#33; It wasn’t until the October proposal by our Oregon Branch to break with the CL was leaked by a sympathizer that they brought up any criticisms of our organization at all (publicly or in private communications with us)&#33;

Up the Oaxaca Commune&#33;

As their rant begins to draw to a close, the CL brings up an issue on which they couldn’t be more incorrect.

The issue is most important to the CL for the sort of personal reasons they accuse us of acting on.

To put it simply, our organizations had two different views on the recent events in Oaxaca, Mexico (see: “ Victory to the Oaxaca Commune&#33; 140+ days of real democracy in Southern Mexico&#33;,” The Free Press, Volume 2, Issue 10 & “Oaxaca under attack&#33; A revolutionary response is necessary&#33;,” TFP, Volume 2, Issue 11). Our organization took the correct position: complete defense of the workers and farmers of Oaxaca and fighting to strengthen and extend and their struggle. Theirs took the wrong one: ultra-left posturing and unproductive hostility and criticism.

We suspect that many of their supporters and sympathizers let them know, as we received a large quantity of correspondence – including from self-described members of the CL – that recognized our position as the correct one.

Beyond this, while the CL phrasemongered from the sidelines, we successfully organized a Oaxaca Defense Committee in New York City that lead a picket of the Mexican Consulate (that drew the support of a number of anarchist and communist organizations, as well as the NY General Membership Branch of the IWW) to defend the Commune – long before the protests of the same location prompted by the murder of a U.S. citizen who was covering the events for IndyMedia. Our comrades in Mexico and Southern California distributed thousands of copies of our statement on the Commune, and worked with fellow workers to organize for its defense.

It didn’t the CL long to crank out a statements “clarifying” their position (actually bending a bit as a result of criticism, while attempting to justify and uphold their original position).

It seems that they still haven’t gotten over it.

The CL claims that “In successive articles, the FPM refers to the supporters of the APPO as “communards” [sic] and has whitewashed the treacherous role of the petty bourgeoisie in this struggle.” In actuality, we have done no such thing, as a quick glance at the articles in question shows.

Not only did we present the revolutionary outlook in the face of the treacherous actions of sections of the APPO leadership (while still defending the Oaxaca Commune), we clearly stated that for the liberation of the Oaxaqueños to be carried out, “it will be necessary to combat the “mis”leaders, who make up a part of CEAPPO, that promote ‘nonviolence’ – in the face of violent state sponsored attacks&#33; – and oppose truly revolutionary action. As we pointed out in earlier coverage of the Commune, these policies can, and indeed have, only lead to the defeat and slaughter of the exploited masses Oaxaca [emphasis added].”

A last ditch effort

Next, in a section titled “Petty-Bourgeois Socialism,” the CL digs up quotes from The Communist Manifesto, in an attempt to justify their baseless criticisms of our organization. Once again, they are unsuccessful.

They go on to make a few more false claims (about our supposed “love” of “the Guevaraist method of guerrillaism”) again without a shred of evidence to back them up.

Also, the again reveal the ridiculousness of their own arguments when they describe “many of the leading members of the FPM.” What happened to the one-man leadership of comrade Ricardo, and the “cult of personality?” Now, from thin air, leading members, appear (the reasons for which we’ll explain below).

A clear case of revisionism

The CL has said publicly that the entire contents of their article, from the third section to the end were written before we cut our ties with them. This explains why the those parts of the article speak of “leading members” (plural) and “leadership” of the FPM, as opposed to the one-man leadership, “cult of personality” that supposedly exists.

For the CL, facts are something to be invented as needed to attain a goal – in this case, slandering our organization.

Just as the CL had no problem working with us (if you can call it that) before we cut off ties with them, and just as they had no problem participating in our defense campaign before we criticized the actions of some of their members, there was no “cult of personality” in our organization prior to October 31. It magically appeared, not unlike the CL’s new found criticisms of our organization, after we announced our decision to cut our ties with them.

Why do they hate us?

Earlier in this article, we mentioned criticisms we raised against individual members of the CL; and pointed out that it seemed this was what provoked the attack on comrade Ricardo, and attempted “outing” of information that was meant to remain private. We want to explain exactly what we’re referring to.

It seems that more than a few members of the CL, at least among those who participate in political discussions and debates on the internet, have a tendency to make sexist and/or anti-Semitic comments (we base this on the fact that such things occurred more than a few times). It is the policy of the owners and moderators of most internet discussion boards to either warn persons who make such comments, or in some cases, revoke their ability to participate entirely. In a few of the cases in which members of the CL made sexist and/or anti-Semitic comments, members of our organization have publicly criticized them.

Apparently, this seriously offended several members of the CL who, in a letter dated October 18, 2006, accused “certain comrades of the FPM” of “contribut to ... a campaign of provocation and baiting that has sought to turn contradictions in method into entrenched positions ... [making] the educational and corrective process
more difficult.”

No, we’re not making this up.

A league of their own

The CL has, by its own actions, isolated itself not only from our organization, but from the class struggle itself.

It appears that the leadership realizes this, but is unable, or unwilling to do anything about it. With the political history of the CL’s founders, it wouldn’t surprise us if it was the latter.

We’ve already described the “clandestine” nature of the CL, which is one way it has isolated itself (and our experience in working with the CL suggests that the decision to be “clandestine” has more to do with hiding the political history of their founders from other workers and leftists than it does defending itself from attacks by the state) . There are of course, many others.

One is the CL’s abuse of class definitions. It is normal practice for members of the CL to refer to any and all political opponents as petty bourgeois, regardless of their actual class background. We have personally witnessed this several times. Someone would raise a political criticism of the CL or the actions of one of its members only to be written off as petty bourgeois – even when the person calling them so had absolutely no idea what their relation to the means of production was&#33; A fellow worker of one of our comrades, who has experience with certain leaders of the CL recently warned us about “a distinct track record on the left with splits (something we were well aware of),” adding “If one is to toss out the term petit-bourgeois as liberally as [they do, they] might want to look to the Socialist Party [which they very recently belonged].”

The fact that so much of the CL’s work, and even its very existence, are so tied in with “cyberspace,” further demonstrates just how isolated from the class struggle they are. We are not opposed to utilizing the internet as an effective means of communication, but the CL seems to carry out internet work [i]as an alternative to work in the “real world” (when they’re not busy using it to slander and publicize the person information their comrades). Of course, they could claim otherwise, but due to their “clandestine” nature, there would be no way to verify it.

Furthermore, despite the CL’s claims to the contrary, the Detroit Working People’s Association (DWPA) is nothing more than a front group. It is not “independent of the CL,” nor does it have “its own leadership.” It is the political legacy of the group that lead the opposition within a split, from a split, from a split, from a split, from a split (no, we’re not exaggerating).

Also contrary to the CL’s claims, there is no more “IWPA.” After the departure of the FPM and Revolutionary Youth from the International, and the previous Disintegration of the International Weekly Group, the only group left is the CL/DWPA. It doesn’t take a genius to realize this an international does not make.

In yet another attempt to slander us, the CL has claimed that we “seized the website of the IWPA and locked all others out of it, including the Association’s Corresponding Secretary and website coordinator, and has since closed it down. The IWPA website was also the host for the websites of the Detroit Working People’s Association and the Albert Currlin Institute. In fact, the DWPA and ACI did not know that the FPM had done this until our C.C. notified them.”

In reality, we haven’t “seized” or “closed down” anything. When the IWPA was formed, we agreed to pay to host the International’s website, as long as the league would maintain it. There was never a discussion about the DWPA or ACI hosting “their” websites in the same space. Since our departure from the IWPA effectively meant it no longer existed, there was no reason for us to waste any of our limited resources on hosting its website. We simply stopped paying the bill, and the hosting company shut down the website. As for the DWPA and ACI being unaware until a later ... we’ll refer our earlier assertion, with a slight modification, “Despite the CL’s claims to the contrary, the Detroit Working People’s Association [and “Albert Currlin Institute” are] nothing more than front groups.

At this point, the CL better hope that its numerous fronts can keep it company in its self-imposed, sectarian and “clandestine” isolation.

The end of a ... chapter

We would be lying if we said we didn’t regret the way things have turned out between our organization and the CL. In the earliest stages of correspondence, we say a genuine opportunity to advance the class struggle through cooperation and unity in action. Unfortunately, for the reasons stated above, the situation degenerated to the point where we had no choice but to cut our ties with the CL.

But we do not despair or fall into petty squabbles. We recognize that the CL contains a number of good, and dedicated comrades. We can only hope they are not turned off to politics forever by the treacherous acts of other members, and the bitter sectarianism of their leaders (who are famous for exactly that); or, possibly even worse, go down the dead end road of reformism, as a result of the CL’s collaboration with bourgeois political parties like the Greens.

We are the International Working People’s Association&#33;

When the creation of the IWPA, a comrade in our organization made a point which rings true today. She said, “International Working People’s Association? We are an international working people’s association&#33;”

She’s correct. Over the last few years, we have expanded from our original existence in the Dominican Republic, a few cities in the U.S. and one city in UK, to every continent on earth. We have seen massive levels of growth, leading to the establishment of branches across North America, in Africa, in South East Asia and in the South Pacific.

Our decision to end relations with the CL has had no negative effect on our work, and in fact has freed up some important resources that can now by used elsewhere.

So, with the same dedication and fervor that we’ve had since our formation, if not more, we continue our fight, all around the world, for freedom, justice and equality&#33;

KC
2nd December 2006, 20:17
:lol:

That was exactly what I expected of you. I actually can&#39;t believe you wasted your time writing that whole thing.

OneBrickOneVoice
2nd December 2006, 20:36
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2006 04:38 am
You have brought up some good points comrade. The main reason that I have rifts with the FPM is the class question, which the League correctly stated in the statement I posted. Im in the fight for class struggle and proletarian revolution and I believe that the FPM has blurred the class question.
Weren&#39;t you a FPMer ten minutes ago?

Nothing Human Is Alien
2nd December 2006, 21:43
I actually can&#39;t believe you wasted your time writing that whole thing.

...

1. It&#39;s a response to a slanderous article by your organization.

2. I didn&#39;t write it (but I did clean it up a bit).

KC
2nd December 2006, 21:45
1. It&#39;s a response to a slanderous article by your organization.

2. I didn&#39;t write it (but I did clean it up a bit).

It&#39;s not slanderous at all. As Miles has already explained, our article was originally an article that was intended to start debate between member of the League and members of the FPM based on our political differences. The part on you breaking the FPM with the League was only added after you did it, after you couldn&#39;t handle a little criticism.

Nothing Human Is Alien
2nd December 2006, 21:51
It&#39;s not slanderous at all.

Yeah ... except for all the slander and unfounded nonsense (which we refuted in our statement).


after you couldn&#39;t handle a little criticism.

This nonsense is clearly refuted in our statement as well.

.. as Miles says "never let a little truth get in the way of a Big Lie."

Maybe you all should take your own advide.

Have fun you bitter little reptile. ;)

Rawthentic
2nd December 2006, 22:38
Originally posted by LeftyHenry+December 02, 2006 12:36 pm--> (LeftyHenry @ December 02, 2006 12:36 pm)
[email protected] 02, 2006 04:38 am
You have brought up some good points comrade. The main reason that I have rifts with the FPM is the class question, which the League correctly stated in the statement I posted. Im in the fight for class struggle and proletarian revolution and I believe that the FPM has blurred the class question.
Weren&#39;t you a FPMer ten minutes ago? [/b]
I am an FPMer. What are you trying to do?

OneBrickOneVoice
2nd December 2006, 23:12
Originally posted by hastalavictoria+December 02, 2006 10:38 pm--> (hastalavictoria @ December 02, 2006 10:38 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2006 12:36 pm

[email protected] 02, 2006 04:38 am
You have brought up some good points comrade. The main reason that I have rifts with the FPM is the class question, which the League correctly stated in the statement I posted. Im in the fight for class struggle and proletarian revolution and I believe that the FPM has blurred the class question.
Weren&#39;t you a FPMer ten minutes ago?
I am an FPMer. What are you trying to do? [/b]
What am I trying to do? I&#39;m trying to figure out why you have a CL avatar.

Entrails Konfetti
2nd December 2006, 23:38
And this is actually what I didn&#39;t want to happen-- silly squabbling on revleft.

Wanted Man
2nd December 2006, 23:50
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2006 10:38 pm
I am an FPMer. What are you trying to do?
Breaking FPM and CL apart. Oh, wait.

which doctor
3rd December 2006, 00:10
Originally posted by hastalavictoria+December 02, 2006 05:38 pm--> (hastalavictoria @ December 02, 2006 05:38 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 02, 2006 12:36 pm

[email protected] 02, 2006 04:38 am
You have brought up some good points comrade. The main reason that I have rifts with the FPM is the class question, which the League correctly stated in the statement I posted. Im in the fight for class struggle and proletarian revolution and I believe that the FPM has blurred the class question.
Weren&#39;t you a FPMer ten minutes ago?
I am an FPMer. What are you trying to do? [/b]
So you&#39;re an FPMer, a Leaguer, and an autonomous marxist?

Sounds like you&#39;re confused :wacko:

BreadBros
3rd December 2006, 02:30
Forced orgies? W. T. F. OK, this ultra-sectarianism shit obviously drives people to some insane realms.

KC
3rd December 2006, 02:34
It&#39;s not surprising that the FPM would resort to slander when confronted with political criticism. Just shows that we can bring this full circle and say that, not only do they see personal issues as political, but that they also see political criticism as personal criticism. Not a single League member was a member of the RWL.

Nothing Human Is Alien
3rd December 2006, 05:09
Forced orgies? W. T. F. OK, this ultra-sectarianism shit obviously drives people to some insane realms.

Yeah, the RWL was pretty fucked up.. though they weren&#39;t the only group that did that sort of thing (not always forced, but often coerced), for example, the Weather Underground.


Not a single League member was a member of the RWL.

:lol: Looks like someone is being dishonest again (either you or whoever told you that).

VukBZ2005
3rd December 2006, 06:08
I was expecting this event to happen for sometime, and I believe that it should have happened, regardless of it being unfortunate.

I personally believe that all of this could have been avoided if the Communist League could have effectively moved from the "world" of the internet to the world that is our actual reality - and if they would have made an effort to analyze the environment of our actual reality, this would have allowed them to draw the right kind of ideas and conclusions. But, this was not the case.

I also happen to agree with the statement of the Free People&#39;s Movement (FPM) in that the Communist League is entirely based on the internet (this becomes obvious when one looks at the activities that they have been engaging in lately), and because of that, in addition to their theoretical limitations, they have been drawing the wrong conclusions and have been for the most part ineffective in making any kind of meaningful contribution to the development of any real revolutionary situations that could bring us closer to the goal of achieving a real Communist society within our lifetime.


:angry:

What a waste of potential. (&#33;)

Rawthentic
3rd December 2006, 17:36
Ok, fuck all of this. I am no longer an FPM or League member. What I thought of both as good organizations, responsible, turned out to be nothing of the sort. I am in accord with Communist Firefox on all this, and I regret spending so much time and energy in this bickering.

cenv
3rd December 2006, 18:17
Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 05:36 pm
Ok, fuck all of this. I am no longer an FPM or League member. What I thought of both as good organizations, responsible, turned out to be nothing of the sort. I am in accord with Communist Firefox on all this, and I regret spending so much time and energy in this bickering.
The irony is that you&#39;re the one who started this thread in the first place. Still sorry that I won&#39;t get a chance to work with you anymore though.

Rawthentic
3rd December 2006, 18:26
Yeah, Im sorry I started this thread, even though it did open my mind. to what I wanted.

Severian
3rd December 2006, 18:29
Originally posted by NKOS+December 02, 2006 11:16 am--> (NKOS &#064; December 02, 2006 11:16 am) I donno about the CL, but FPM sure is active, even though i reckon they&#39;re pretty small, its not like its an internet org.

http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?219
http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?201
http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?171 [/b]
I probably overstated the case some.

Still and all, this&#39;d be more impressive if this activity had been noticed by someone other than the FPM&#39;s own website.


Compañ[email protected] 02, 2006 01:49 pm
The information (or misinformation, as we’ll explain) this person made public was given by comrade Ricardo to two members of the CL in confidentiality in January of 2006. Having only had established relations with the CL months earlier, we made a conscious decision, as a security precaution, to limit the vital information we shared with them, and even to provide some (non-vital) misinformation.
......
Even still, the CL, going on the misinformation we provided (which differed a bit from the actual details of comrade Ricardo’s case), supported the campaign to defend our movement and its members (which included the defense of comrade Ricardo).
I gotta say this is odd. The nature of the charges can hardly be unknown to the prosecution - so what valid "security" reason can there be to keep them secret from anyone else? And providing "misinformation" to someone you&#39;re asking to support a defense campaign can never be good. If nothing else, it&#39;ll damage the credibility of the defense effort when the falsehood inevitably comes out.


And how rich it is for the CL to claim our organization fosters a “cult of personality,” when it’s leaders come directly from actual cults like the Revolutionary Workers’ League and the International Bolshevik Tendency&#33;

That’s right, the political origins of the founders and leaders of the Communist League lie in groups like the obscure RWL. The few people who have heard of the RWL know that it was a fringe group that engaged more in disrupting the activities of other leftist organizations than carrying out any actual work of value. It is also known by some for the odd relationships that went on within it (including certain members complete control over every aspect of other members’ lives, forced orgies, etc.). None of this has anything to do with genuine organizations and individuals fighting for the liberation of humanity, but that didn’t stop the founders of the CL from joining&#33;

But it doesn’t end there. Unable to work with well with others for any extended period of time, the key leadership of the CL has made its way through a myriad of organizations over the years, including the reformist Communist Party, the ultra-sectarian and cultish Spartacist League (which is also known for disrupting the activities of other leftists), the International Bolshevik Tendency (a cultish split from the Spartacist League, like the RWL), the reformist International Socialist Organization, the reformist Socialist Party, and a host of insignificant groups (which they often played a part in creating) like the “Marxist Workers’ Group” and “Workers’ Voice.”
....
Furthermore, despite the CL’s claims to the contrary, the Detroit Working People’s Association (DWPA) is nothing more than a front group. It is not “independent of the CL,” nor does it have “its own leadership.” It is the political legacy of the group that lead the opposition within a split, from a split, from a split, from a split, from a split (no, we’re not exaggerating).

Ironically, I pointed all this and more out in this thread from November 2005. (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=42258) It&#39;s in the CC, so some people might not be able to access it.

Strangely, CdeL&#39;s reaction in that thread was rather different from now. At the time, he asserted, bizarrely, that the DWPA was not a CL front group. And accused me of "trying to play McCarthy" for pointing out the same information which he&#39;s now repeating.

As with the CL, truth for him apparently depends on the personal or organizational alliances or disputes of the moment.

KC
3rd December 2006, 20:20
Wow&#33; You know that something&#39;s up when Severian supports the League.

Severian
3rd December 2006, 21:05
I&#39;m not, obviously. I&#39;m not taking sides in this, or attempting to evaluate or comment on every point.

KC
3rd December 2006, 21:16
Good point, but I expected you to take the FPM&#39;s side on this, as a way to oppose anything Miles does. You know, the typical Severian shit.

Rawthentic
3rd December 2006, 22:21
Hmm.. seems like some stuff is starting to get cleared up.

BreadBros
3rd December 2006, 22:23
lol, like what?

Rawthentic
3rd December 2006, 22:35
If you ignored what Severian posted above, take a look. It reveals a little hypocrisy. Plus, some inside stuff that is none of your business.

Wanted Man
4th December 2006, 02:37
Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 10:35 pm
none of your business.
Except for that whole thing about tens of thousands of words being written about it?

Rawthentic
4th December 2006, 04:42
I said "inside stuff", which is none of your business and would be wrong of me to let you know.

bcbm
4th December 2006, 08:16
Originally posted by Marmot+December 03, 2006 07:51 pm--> (Marmot @ December 03, 2006 07:51 pm)
black banner black [email protected] 04, 2006 01:48 am
Jesus fucking christ, this snooze-fest is still going? <_<
lol then why have you replied like 3 times [/b]
I&#39;m trying to shame these losers into shutting up.

Nothing Human Is Alien
4th December 2006, 20:24
I probably overstated the case some.

Still and all, this&#39;d be more impressive if this activity had been noticed by someone other than the FPM&#39;s own website.

It obviously has. The FPM-led school walkout and march in Hartford was covered by a number of mainstream media outlets, as were pickets and other actions in Ohio, New York, Oregon and the Dominican Republic. Our campaign in the Solomon Islands has also gotten some (though limited for obvious reasons) coverage.


I gotta say this is odd. The nature of the charges can hardly be unknown to the prosecution - so what valid "security" reason can there be to keep them secret from anyone else? And providing "misinformation" to someone you&#39;re asking to support a defense campaign can never be good. If nothing else, it&#39;ll damage the credibility of the defense effort when the falsehood inevitably comes out.

I think you misunderstand. The misinformation was given while there were still active federal warrants out. It&#39;s usually not a good idea to give out a ton of personal info when the pigs are looking for you ... unless you want to be arrested.

Besides this, that was one very small part of the defense campaign. The main issues were Francisco&#39;s unjust arrest and the shutting down of our publications.


Ironically, I pointed all this and more out in this thread from November 2005. It&#39;s in the CC, so some people might not be able to access it.

Strangely, CdeL&#39;s reaction in that thread was rather different from now. At the time, he asserted, bizarrely, that the DWPA was not a CL front group. And accused me of "trying to play McCarthy" for pointing out the same information which he&#39;s now repeating.

At the time, we weren&#39;t aware of all the relevant info. I&#39;m not interested in giving out anyone&#39;s personal info, so I won&#39;t go to far into it.. but there&#39;s a difference between exposing the political history of some of the leaders of a group and exposing their personal information. You&#39;ll notice we didn&#39;t use names or say who belonged to what organization; but in light of the CL&#39;s actions, we felt it correct to address their history of this sort of bullshit.


As with the CL, truth for him apparently depends on the personal or organizational alliances or disputes of the moment.

... except for not at all. I could only go on what I was told and the info at hand.

Nothing Human Is Alien
4th December 2006, 20:25
I&#39;m trying to shame these losers into shutting up.

When you want a thread to go away it might not be the best idea to keep bumping it.

Rawthentic
5th December 2006, 01:13
At the time, he asserted, bizarrely, that the DWPA was not a CL front group.

So, back then, you didn&#39;t know, but you happen to know now when its convenient?

BreadBros
5th December 2006, 04:29
Originally posted by [email protected] 03, 2006 10:35 pm
If you ignored what Severian posted above, take a look. It reveals a little hypocrisy. Plus, some inside stuff that is none of your business.
:P :P :P

A little snippy there, man&#33; Severians post cleared things up in a sense, but it seemed like it would only make things way more complicated for people involved. But anyway, thats what I get for asking a question in a thread, yelled at. :(

Rawthentic
5th December 2006, 15:33
Nobody yelled at you comrade, take it easy.

Honggweilo
5th December 2006, 15:49
I&#39;m just wondering, does the FPM, CL or WFPM have any members outside america that doesnt extend to only one person, a internet connection and alot of free time? because that is certainly the cause with CLérs here in the Netherlands...

Nothing Human Is Alien
5th December 2006, 16:04
As for the FPM, you decide:

FPM running 9 candidates in Solomon Islands election (http://freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?219)

oh.. and our first branch was in the Dominican Republic. That&#39;s where we started from, and expanded outward.

kaaos_af
5th December 2006, 16:27
On a side note::


The workers and farmers of the Solomon Islands have suffered under the yoke of imperialism for over four hundred years. From the ?blackbirding? ? or kidnaping of labourers to be used as indentured servants on sugar plantations in Australia ? by the English in the 19th and 20th centuries to the current occupation by the Australian-lead ?Regional Assistance Mission to the Solomon Islands,? or RAMSI (see: ?Australia continues plans to re-colonize Pacific countries,? The Free Press, Volume 2, Issue 7), imperialist oppression has taken a serious toll on the country and its people.

Brilliant&#33; I was looking to see if any groups in the Solomons were going to talk about this. All the best in the elections/

Black Dagger
5th December 2006, 16:35
Originally posted by [email protected] 06, 2006 02:27 am
On a side note::


The workers and farmers of the Solomon Islands have suffered under the yoke of imperialism for over four hundred years. From the ?blackbirding? ? or kidnaping of labourers to be used as indentured servants on sugar plantations in Australia ? by the English in the 19th and 20th centuries to the current occupation by the Australian-lead ?Regional Assistance Mission to the Solomon Islands,? or RAMSI (see: ?Australia continues plans to re-colonize Pacific countries,? The Free Press, Volume 2, Issue 7), imperialist oppression has taken a serious toll on the country and its people.

Brilliant&#33; I was looking to see if any groups in the Solomons were going to talk about this. All the best in the elections/
FYI, Mutiny crew is doin&#39; research to write up a reader for oz in tonga, solomans etc. stuff, targetting ozi imperialism in the pacific - to educate ourselves in what&#39;s goin on&#39;, and for distro as well ---&#62; Hopefully leading into a new campaign over the summer, in the lead-up to APEC. Since most of the &#39;left&#39; isnt really put much (anything) out about ozi imperialism in the pacific, and when they do, it&#39;s not being followed up in the streets ya know? Maybe we could network some direct actions with the DA collective? :P Ya reckon the DA crew would be interested in organising around ozi imperialism in the pacific? What ya folks doin&#39; at the moment?

Severian
5th December 2006, 18:00
Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 04, 2006 02:24 pm

I gotta say this is odd. The nature of the charges can hardly be unknown to the prosecution - so what valid "security" reason can there be to keep them secret from anyone else?* And providing "misinformation" to someone you&#39;re asking to support a defense campaign can never be good. If nothing else, it&#39;ll damage the credibility of the defense effort when the falsehood inevitably comes out.

I think you misunderstand. The misinformation was given while there were still active federal warrants out. It&#39;s usually not a good idea to give out a ton of personal info when the pigs are looking for you ... unless you want to be arrested.
That doesn&#39;t really address my points. Obviously the "pigs" already know what they&#39;ve charged you with, and there seems to be confusion even about that - are you charged with "defrauding the government" or "defrauding people over the internet"? And: there can be good reasons for withholding some information, but not for generating misinformation, aka lying to people you&#39;re asking to support a defense campaign.

This all seems to have become so tangled that it&#39;s not worth trying to completely untangle it. I&#39;m just saying its kinda fishy.


At the time, we weren&#39;t aware of all the relevant info. I&#39;m not interested in giving out anyone&#39;s personal info, so I won&#39;t go to far into it.. but there&#39;s a difference between exposing the political history of some of the leaders of a group and exposing their personal information. You&#39;ll notice we didn&#39;t use names or say who belonged to what organization; but in light of the CL&#39;s actions, we felt it correct to address their history of this sort of bullshit.

I don&#39;t see how you could have known less than I did, considering that I had and have no inside information whatsoever.

Edit: HastaLaVictoria has also pointed out this strains credibility.

You weren&#39;t aware that the DWPA is a front group for the CL? It&#39;s intuitively obvious - and you haven&#39;t given any additional reason for thinking so that I didn&#39;t give at the time. I gotta conclude you knew this obvious fact all along, just found it more convenient to deny it anyway.

And of course I didn&#39;t give out anybody&#39;s personal info. Not even their names - except when they were already publicly known as leaders of the DWPA and longtime far-left activists. Weltman was its candidate for school board, for crying out loud, and Schraeder is the Chairman of the DWPA according to Miles - it was Miles who posted his real name, not me.

The common thread - here and on my earlier point - is using "security" as a reason to keep things secret from the public, from people you&#39;re trying to influence or recruit. A bogus excuse, because these things are already known to the government if they want to know them. These secrets are being kept for purposes of deception, not legitimate security reasons.

To illustrate this with an analogy: it&#39;s like the "secret" arming of the contras. Obviously the Sandinistas knew this was going on, it was only kept secret in order to keep the U.S. population in the dark. There was in fact no legitimate military security reason for it - even if one accepts the "national security" of the U.S. as something to defend - only deceptive political secrecy.

Or for a historical example, it&#39;s like Bakunin&#39;s secret brotherhood within the IMWA. This didn&#39;t exist to protect activists from persecution by the governments - but rather to deceive and manipulate the IMWA&#39;s rank and file for factional purposes. Thread where this bit of history was discussed. (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=36092)

Nothing Human Is Alien
5th December 2006, 21:42
Brilliant&#33; I was looking to see if any groups in the Solomons were going to talk about this. All the best in the elections/

About what? RAMSI?


Since most of the &#39;left&#39; isnt really put much (anything) out about ozi imperialism in the pacific, and when they do, it&#39;s not being followed up in the streets ya know?

Yeah.. either that or they&#39;re calling for "troops in"&#33;


That doesn&#39;t really address my points. Obviously the "pigs" already know what they&#39;ve charged you with, and there seems to be confusion even about that - are you charged with "defrauding the government" or "defrauding people over the internet"? And: there can be good reasons for withholding some information, but not for generating misinformation, aka lying to people you&#39;re asking to support a defense campaign.

This all seems to have become so tangled that it&#39;s not worth trying to completely untangle it. I&#39;m just saying its kinda fishy.

Again, I think you misunderstand. We&#39;re talking about a period when active warrants were still out, and the police were still looking. This was before there was a defense campaign. It was in the early stages of communication between our groups, when we couldn&#39;t be sure if there were pigs in their group or not.

If you don&#39;t want to be found by federal agents who are looking for you, it&#39;s probably best not to go around telling everyone your name, exactly what you&#39;re wanted for, where the warrant is out of, etc.


I don&#39;t see how you could have known less than I did, considering that I had and have no inside information whatsoever.

Edit: HastaLaVictoria has also pointed out this strains credibility.

I don&#39;t see why you would think we knew so much more. We were presented with reps of the DWPA and CL - as seperate entities - during early discussions about forming the IWPA. At the time we didn&#39;t have the info that we have now.


You weren&#39;t aware that the DWPA is a front group for the CL? It&#39;s intuitively obvious - and you haven&#39;t given any additional reason for thinking so that I didn&#39;t give at the time.

Let&#39;s just say we got the "full scoop" since then.

And as "intuitively obvious" as it is, in the thread you mentioned earlier you admitted that it might not actually be a front after Miles said otherwise.


I gotta conclude you knew this obvious fact all along, just found it more convenient to deny it anyway.

You can conclude that; but you&#39;d be wrong. Not the first time and more than likely not the last.


The common thread - here and on my earlier point - is using "security" as a reason to keep things secret from the public, from people you&#39;re trying to influence or recruit. A bogus excuse, because these things are already known to the government if they want to know them. These secrets are being kept for purposes of deception, not legitimate security reasons.

I&#39;ll repeat myself: If you don&#39;t want to be found by federal agents who are looking for you, it&#39;s probably best not to go around telling everyone your name, exactly what you&#39;re wanted for, where the warrant is out of, etc.

The only "secrets" that should be kept are for legitimate security reasons.. which we have and had. We don&#39;t keep secrets for the sake of keeping them. I agree that it&#39;s incorrect to keep things secret from working people while pretending to keep them secret from pigs (who already know them). That wasn&#39;t the case here, though you don&#39;t have to go far to find that sort of thing.

KC
5th December 2006, 22:11
On the issue at hand -- "the split" -- it&#39;s interesting that the issue of Cuba was brought up as one of the political differences that have played a role. And it&#39;s interesting not with regards this split, but with regards the internal political life of the Communist League.

That is, if it was able to play a prominent role in a divide between two separate organisations, what will happen when it becomes an issue inside the Communist League?

Different ideas about Cuba between the two organizations only influenced the separation on the FPM&#39;s side. Like Miles said earlier in this thread, many of these points were originally going into a document that was going to be distributed to the FPM in order to start open discussion on the political differences between the two organizations. We had no intention of breaking connections with the FPM at the time, especially over something like this. Of course, we could see how it influenced the separation on the FPM&#39;s side when their Oregon (?) branch released a statement basically saying that the FPM should break all ties with us because we&#39;re "eurocentrist" "whites" for not recognizing Cuba as a socialist state (of course what they didn&#39;t realize is that we don&#39;t hold an official position on Cuba and that some of our members actually agree with them, but who cares about facts?).




The League itself, of course, has no formal position on this issue ... or many other historical issues. Which means that League members can (and do?) hold all kinds of different views on the subject. Miles and, it seems, other leading members of the League, however, hold a variation of the left-communist view on the subject.

So, as the League develops and presents more and more of its formal positions on certain subjects to us; how will it cope with the glaring contradictions between the views of leading members and others on said subjects?


We have dealt with the issue of Cuba in the past in the League, and continue to hold ongoing discussions on that and other events in history and debate between different perspectives that different members hold. However, to me it seems that this has actually brought us closer together as an organization instead of dividing us.

Entrails Konfetti
5th December 2006, 22:28
Originally posted by Zampanò@December 05, 2006 10:11 pm
(of course what they didn&#39;t realize is that we don&#39;t hold an official position on Cuba and that some of our members actually agree with them, but who cares about facts?).
I don&#39;t recall too many members believing Cuba to be a socialist-state, or any as of today.

All I can recall is that some of us may have felt possitive about whats going on in Cuba, but had our doubts, and were critical, though no one really took a pro-Cuba stance.

KC
5th December 2006, 22:31
I don&#39;t recall too many members believing Cuba to be a socialist-state, or any as of today.

All I can recall is that some of us may have felt possitive about whats going on in Cuba, but had our doubts, and were critical, though no one really took a pro-Cuba stance.

I remember debating with someone in the League about it, but I don&#39;t remember who it was.

Severian
6th December 2006, 01:35
Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 05, 2006 03:42 pm
And as "intuitively obvious" as it is, in the thread you mentioned earlier you admitted that it might not actually be a front after Miles said otherwise.
No, I said let&#39;s suppose it isn&#39;t for the sake of argument. I said that again in this thread.

which doctor
6th December 2006, 23:34
Originally posted by Leo [email protected] 02, 2006 12:29 am
I was looking at the League website and I saw this picture;

http://www.communistleague.org/images/iwpa-avatar.gif

Which of course made me feel warm and fuzzy inside, but it was also interesting because this is the ICC logo. Anyway...

It&#39;s also, surprisingly, a logo for Crimethinc.

http://www.crimethinc.com/downloads/preview/sledgefem.jpg
http://www.crimethinc.com/downloads/preview/sledge.jpg

metalero
7th December 2006, 00:03
2007 chit chat awards.

stuff up of the year: Communist league-FPM internet split

Janus
7th December 2006, 00:59
After reading the FPM counterstatement, I can&#39;t believe that I actually thought that the CL statement was a bit too harsh.

Anyways, this whole episode is really being overdramatized and is basically just a lot of petty arguements combined with political mudslinging. This kind of publicity ain&#39;t helping either group.

peaccenicked
7th December 2006, 02:13
What I cannot believe is that Revleft has become reduced to an analysis of a squabble between two organisations pulled by the heat of battle in opposing directions. There is heavy pressure on the Mexican people which is accentuated by the attempted police capture of Oxaca http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews....XICO-OAXACA.xml (http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=worldNews&storyid=2006-11-26T174124Z_01_N25328815_RTRUKOC_0_US-MEXICO-OAXACA.xml)


The revolution is not really learned by leaders. Leaders can either join the people or get out of the road.
Everytime we have won, our foriegn policy has been to spread it elswhere.

AmerGuerilla
7th December 2006, 02:14
Anyways, this whole episode is really being overdramatized and is basically just a lot of petty arguements combined with political mudslinging. This kind of publicity ain&#39;t helping either group.

Well I see on the CL site that they have an article up on it. hmm none on the FPM site maybe thats just because the new Free Press hasnt come out or just because this wont impact everyday FPM activism. dont think this will effect the support of any real FPM supporters around the world, maybe a couple people on this forum but thats it.