Your epiphany...

[t_wolves_fan]

Describe for me the moment that you realized you knew what was best for everyone, if you would.

The moment you realized you had logic and reason mastered, and that if only those foolish individuals would rely on your guidance, why it would be nothing but champaign wishes and caviar dreams for all.

Thanks!

[Cryotank Screams]

Your a troll, and should be banned.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by Cryotank [email protected] 30, 2006 09:54 pm
Your a troll, and should be banned.
It's a serious question. I just had a poster tell me she's proud to silence people because they're "incorrect" when it comes to questions of religion and morality, and others seem to share that opinion.

[loveme4whoiam]

When I saw what blind faith in a universal justifier caused. If I kill someone, it won't be because an entity beyond my control or understanding required it.

[bezdomni]

After God told me all of his plans.

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 06:00 pm
It's a serious question.
No, it's a sardonic, and tongue-in-cheek jab at Leftists here, saying that we are so self-righteous that we think our own individual opinion is the only correct on, and that we know everything; in other words it was trolling.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by Cryotank Screams+November 30, 2006 10:04 pm--> (Cryotank Screams @ November 30, 2006 10:04 pm)
[email protected] 30, 2006 06:00 pm
It's a serious question.
No, it's a sardonic, and tongue-in-cheek jab at Leftists here, saying that we are so self-righteous that we think our own individual opinion is the only correct on, and that we know everything; in other words it was trolling. [/b]
If the opinions expressed here indicate that mindset, then how can I be blamed?

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 10:02 pm
When I saw what blind faith in a universal justifier caused. If I kill someone, it won't be because an entity beyond my control or understanding required it.
I see.

Well, as long as you kill someone for the right reasons, then it's ok.

:huh:

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 06:07 pm
If the opinions expressed here indicate that mindset, then how can I be blamed?
Proof? This thread seems a tad hypocritical if you ask me, ;) .

Also, alot of times, we are joking.

[loveme4whoiam]

Originally posted by t_wolves_fan+November 30, 2006 10:08 pm--> (t_wolves_fan @ November 30, 2006 10:08 pm)
[email protected] 30, 2006 10:02 pm
When I saw what blind faith in a universal justifier caused. If I kill someone, it won't be because an entity beyond my control or understanding required it.
I see.

Well, as long as you kill someone for the right reasons, then it's ok.

:huh: [/b]
You do support religious violence then? You think that murdering people, ruining lives, hell, living in abject misery, in order to please some higher power is a good thing?

I don't, and that's why I believe I'm right.

So tell me, why do you think that logic and reason are products of a faithless, degenerate society, and if only those damn Muslims/Jews/Sikhs/sheep would lay down and die, the world would be a wholesome, God-fearing society where everyone knows their place?

[uber-liberal]

So tell me, why do you think that logic and reason are products of a faithless, degenerate society, and if only those damn Muslims/Jews/Sikhs/sheep would lay down and die, the world would be a wholesome, God-fearing society where everyone knows their place?

So tell me, the first time you heard the Rolling Stones song "Under My Thumb", did you sympathize with the narrator?

[loveme4whoiam]

Not heard it.

[uber-liberal]

Originally posted by [email protected] 01, 2006 09:46 am
Not heard it.
...figures.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by t_wolves_fan+December 01, 2006 08:07 am--> (t_wolves_fan @ December 01, 2006 08:07 am)
Originally posted by Cryotank [email protected] 30, 2006 10:04 pm

[email protected] 30, 2006 06:00 pm
It's a serious question.
No, it's a sardonic, and tongue-in-cheek jab at Leftists here, saying that we are so self-righteous that we think our own individual opinion is the only correct on, and that we know everything; in other words it was trolling.
If the opinions expressed here indicate that mindset, then how can I be blamed? [/b]
Not everyone has that attitude, it is merely one of many different ideological tendencies in the boards membership (essentially the product of redstar2000), it's not representative of the membership as a whole.

As as an 'epiphany' i've never had one, just a slow process of development to where im at now.

[t_wolves_fan]

You do support religious violence then? You think that murdering people, ruining lives, hell, living in abject misery, in order to please some higher power is a good thing?

Nope.


I don't, and that's why I believe I'm right.

We agree on this but I just have to ask, would you if given the opportunity deny people the right to practice/express/indoctrinate their children with religious views simply because it may lead to religious violence?

I would not.


So tell me, why do you think that logic and reason are products of a faithless, degenerate society, and if only those damn Muslims/Jews/Sikhs/sheep would lay down and die, the world would be a wholesome, God-fearing society where everyone knows their place?

Actually I do not believe any of those things.

This may shock you, but I am not religious.

[loveme4whoiam]

...figures.
:huh: How has my ignorance of this song impact anything? Hell, I could list a load of songs by any number of bands, and the fact that you had or hadn&#39;t heard them would not make a damn bit of difference to a political question. If you are going to state an argument, at least state one that makes even a modicum of sense <_<


Nope.
Fair enough :)


We agree on this but I just have to ask, would you if given the opportunity deny people the right to practice/express/indoctrinate their children with religious views simply because it may lead to religious violence?

I would not.
Interesting question. Hypothetically (since I&#39;ll never actually be in this position in real life) I would probably say that yes, I would, if clear indoctrination is going on. Forcing a child to believe something, anything, is wrong, and I&#39;d object to it even if it was marxist theory that child was having shoved down their throat.

Obviously, I&#39;m making a distinction between simply raising a child in a certain way, and indoctrination. The two can become the same thing, and thats bad. But, for example, raising a child in a Christian house, while I personally disagree with it, isn&#39;t indoctrination as long as the child is given the freedom to make its own choices. When that freedom is taken away by a parent or parent, then things have gone wrong.

So I suppose my answer is yes, I would deny someone the right to effectively brainwash a child. If this contradicts some belief in freedom of speech, fair enough, I&#39;ll accept that, and the moral damnation that seems to incur.

[t_wolves_fan]

Interesting question. Hypothetically (since I&#39;ll never actually be in this position in real life) I would probably say that yes, I would, if clear indoctrination is going on. Forcing a child to believe something, anything, is wrong, and I&#39;d object to it even if it was marxist theory that child was having shoved down their throat.

How, specifically, would you enforce this? I&#39;ve asked others for specifics but gotten no answers.


Obviously, I&#39;m making a distinction between simply raising a child in a certain way, and indoctrination. The two can become the same thing, and thats bad. But, for example, raising a child in a Christian house, while I personally disagree with it, isn&#39;t indoctrination as long as the child is given the freedom to make its own choices. When that freedom is taken away by a parent or parent, then things have gone wrong.

Everyone eventually becomes an adult at which point they&#39;re free to reject what they&#39;ve been taught, don&#39;t they?


So I suppose my answer is yes, I would deny someone the right to effectively brainwash a child. If this contradicts some belief in freedom of speech, fair enough, I&#39;ll accept that, and the moral damnation that seems to incur.

Fair enough, even though in effect you&#39;re simply brainwashing a child with different beliefs.

But back to the main question, why do you claim the right to decide this for others?

[Axel1917]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 09:48 pm
Describe for me the moment that you realized you knew what was best for everyone, if you would.

The moment you realized you had logic and reason mastered, and that if only those foolish individuals would rely on your guidance, why it would be nothing but champaign wishes and caviar dreams for all.

Thanks&#33;
I "know what is best for everyone?" :blink: Since when was I a god? :blink:

Logic and reason mastered? I was not aware I reached the finality of human product. Marxism has to be studied constantly, updated, compared to the real world, etc. It is not a credo.

I did get into Marxism after various stages of anti-capitalism (ultra-leftism, Stalinism, utopian socialism, etc.), as many people struggle to barely get by. Capitalism has exhausted its useful purpose; it can no longer attain development of the productive forces as in the past (I have yet to see another massive advancement like the Industrial Revolution). I have been studying it for some time and I am involved in an organization. I probably got more serious about it in fall of 2005 after some time of study. I feel that it is relevant (the opponents always attack strawmen and not Marxism, they keep mentioning something that is "unrealistic." Why mention it and spend all kinds of money on something that is "dead"? Capitalism cannot even guarantee a place to live and a decent income (Katrina and government negligence, Third World, dirty wars, etc.) for everyone when it has developed the productive forces to such a high extent. The USA, in spite of being the most advanced, does not even have free healthcare and eduction that less advanced nations have, etc.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 09:48 pm
Describe for me the moment that you realized you knew what was best for everyone, if you would.

There was no specific "time" when I thought I had a full-proof solution to the worlds problems. And I still don&#39;t. I grew up in reasonably comfortable working class conditions. Dad was a factory worker and my mum did various jobs. Like most working class people, I was marginally racist, and Religious.

Given my social conditions it&#39;s not rocket science trying to determine where I may have got my socialist views from. :rolleyes:

Though my parents have always been right of the centre.

[uber-liberal]

How has my ignorance of this song impact anything? Hell, I could list a load of songs by any number of bands, and the fact that you had or hadn&#39;t heard them would not make a damn bit of difference to a political question. If you are going to state an argument, at least state one that makes even a modicum of sense

Chill the fuck out, dude. It wasn&#39;t a comment on your lack of intellect, just your lack of musical bredth and my ability to pick the exactly wrong song for my point, which was...

you&#39;re sounding like a statist, not a liberal. Get over yourself.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by Love Underground+December 01, 2006 05:45 pm--> (Love Underground @ December 01, 2006 05:45 pm)
[email protected] 30, 2006 09:48 pm
Describe for me the moment that you realized you knew what was best for everyone, if you would.

There was no specific "time" when I thought I had a full-proof solution to the worlds problems. And I still don&#39;t. I grew up in reasonably comfortable working class conditions. Dad was a factory worker and my mum did various jobs. Like most working class people, I was marginally racist, and Religious.

Given my social conditions it&#39;s not rocket science trying to determine where I may have got my socialist views from. :rolleyes:

Though my parents have always been right of the centre. [/b]
In your case, what led to you being a nihilist?

Was there a specific event, or did it just develop over time?

Do you see any gain from it?

[ichneumon]

contemplating a koan in high school chemistry class - though it did not lead to any such megalomania.

my solution to the world&#39;s problems is to never give up fighting injustice and working for a better world. i think, on the whole, i got the idea from reading "the lord of the rings" wherein a common nobody, not a wizard or king or warrior or whatnot, destroys the tyrannical evil of Sauron by simply being unwilling to give up or stop resisting.

here&#39;s to frodo, a fictional hero for the real world.

[Raisa]

Originally posted by t_wolves_fan+November 30, 2006 10:00 pm--> (t_wolves_fan &#064; November 30, 2006 10:00 pm)
Cryotank [email protected] 30, 2006 09:54 pm
Your a troll, and should be banned.
It&#39;s a serious question. I just had a poster tell me she&#39;s proud to silence people because they&#39;re "incorrect" when it comes to questions of religion and morality, and others seem to share that opinion. [/b]


I assumed you meant this in reference to leftism
ad my answer is thatl..... I just saw you capitalists kicking it on vacation with your loud savage acting blue eyed children and fake ass wives making purchases of things I could never afford and realized I want your money. and...why the hell not...

It wasnt really an epiphany, asshole....I just aint stupid enough to believe in my own slavery....

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by uber&#045;[email protected] 01, 2006 05:50 pm
you&#39;re sounding like a statist, not a liberal. Get over yourself.
For all you know they may well be a fucking statist. Also none of the unrestricted members of this forum are, to my knowledge, fucking liberals. Liberals are shit.

[red team]

Describe for me the moment that you realized you knew what was best for everyone, if you would.

It&#39;s the moment I realize that most people don&#39;t think things out in a rational manner but react on impulse to their own selfish, stupid, horny (http://www.amazon.com/Dilbert-Future-Thriving-Stupidity-Century/dp/product-description/088730866X) desires which is not surprising given that enlightenment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment) is a relatively recent development. During the bulk of recorded human history most people would rather club another person over the head for gaining their own selfish advantage than www.drexel.edu/top/personal/wkpaps/gildf/gildpref.html#RTFToC2]work (http://william-king.[url) together[/url] to find cooperative solutions to problems. Face with the challenge of problems most people would react with violence or fear than calmly thinking through what can done about it which explains why even now people still believe in the big sky wizard to one day save them (http://www.raptureready.com) than their own human potential to save themselves (http://scienceforpeace.sa.utoronto.ca/)


The moment you realized you had logic and reason mastered, and that if only those foolish individuals would rely on your guidance, why it would be nothing but champaign wishes and caviar dreams for all.

I&#39;ve had enough experience with logic and reason to realize that it&#39;s the best way to solve problems assuming that everything in the world follow cause and effect and don&#39;t just happen as if by magic. As for "mastering" it, I don&#39;t consider anyone in the world to have fully mastered anything in science which evolves as future discoveries are made, so let&#39;s be humble and open-minded okay.

But, not so "open-minded" like bozo the clown as to let your brains fall out. :lol: