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RebeldePorLaPAZ
30th November 2006, 01:17
In the name of God, the Compassionate, the Merciful

O, Almighty God, bestow upon humanity the perfect human being promised to all by You, and make us among his followers.

Noble Americans,

Were we not faced with the activities of the US administration in this part of the world and the negative ramifications of those activities on the daily lives of our peoples, coupled with the many wars and calamities caused by the US administration as well as the tragic consequences of US interference in other countries;

Were the American people not God-fearing, truth-loving, and justice-seeking, while the US administration actively conceals the truth and impedes any objective portrayal of current realities;

And if we did not share a common responsibility to promote and protect freedom and human dignity and integrity;

Then, there would have been little urgency to have a dialogue with you.

While Divine providence has placed Iran and the United States geographically far apart, we should be cognizant that human values and our common human spirit, which proclaim the dignity and exalted worth of all human beings, have brought our two great nations of Iran and the United States closer together.

Both our nations are God-fearing, truth-loving and justice-seeking, and both seek dignity, respect and perfection.

Both greatly value and readily embrace the promotion of human ideals such as compassion, empathy, respect for the rights of human beings, securing justice and equity, and defending the innocent and the weak against oppressors and bullies.

We are all inclined towards the good, and towards extending a helping hand to one another, particularly to those in need.

We all deplore injustice, the trampling of peoples' rights and the intimidation and humiliation of human beings.

We all detest darkness, deceit, lies and distortion, and seek and admire salvation, enlightenment, sincerity and honesty.

The pure human essence of the two great nations of Iran and the United States testify to the veracity of these statements.

Noble Americans,

Our nation has always extended its hand of friendship to all other nations of the world.

Hundreds of thousands of my Iranian compatriots are living amongst you in friendship and peace, and are contributing positively to your society. Our people have been in contact with you over the past many years and have maintained these contacts despite the unnecessary restrictions of US authorities.

As mentioned, we have common concerns, face similar challenges, and are pained by the sufferings and afflictions in the world.

We, like you, are aggrieved by the ever-worsening pain and misery of the Palestinian people. Persistent aggressions by the Zionists are making life more and more difficult for the rightful owners of the land of Palestine. In broad day-light, in front of cameras and before the eyes of the world, they are bombarding innocent defenseless civilians, bulldozing houses, firing machine guns at students in the streets and alleys, and subjecting their families to endless grief.

No day goes by without a new crime.

Palestinian mothers, just like Iranian and American mothers, love their children, and are painfully bereaved by the imprisonment, wounding and murder of their children. What mother wouldn't?

For 60 years, the Zionist regime has driven millions of the inhabitants of Palestine out of their homes. Many of these refugees have died in the Diaspora and in refugee camps. Their children have spent their youth in these camps and are aging while still in the hope of returning to homeland.

You know well that the US administration has persistently provided blind and blanket support to the Zionist regime, has emboldened it to continue its crimes, and has prevented the UN Security Council from condemning it.

Who can deny such broken promises and grave injustices towards humanity by the US administration?

Governments are there to serve their own people. No people wants to side with or support any oppressors. But regrettably, the US administration disregards even its own public opinion and remains in the forefront of supporting the trampling of the rights of the Palestinian people.

Let's take a look at Iraq. Since the commencement of the US military presence in Iraq, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed, maimed or displaced. Terrorism in Iraq has grown exponentially. With the presence of the US military in Iraq, nothing has been done to rebuild the ruins, to restore the infrastructure or to alleviate poverty. The US Government used the pretext of the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but later it became clear that that was just a lie and a deception.

Although Saddam was overthrown and people are happy about his departure, the pain and suffering of the Iraqi people has persisted and has even been aggravated.

In Iraq, about one hundred and fifty thousand American soldiers, separated from their families and loved ones, are operating under the command of the current US administration. A substantial number of them have been killed or wounded and their presence in Iraq has tarnished the image of the American people and government.

Their mothers and relatives have, on numerous occasions, displayed their discontent with the presence of their sons and daughters in a land thousands of miles away from US shores. American soldiers often wonder why they have been sent to Iraq.

I consider it extremely unlikely that you, the American people, consent to the billions of dollars of annual expenditure from your treasury for this military misadventure.

Noble Americans,

You have heard that the US administration is kidnapping its presumed opponents from across the globe and arbitrarily holding them without trial or any international supervision in horrendous prisons that it has established in various parts of the world. God knows who these detainees actually are, and what terrible fate awaits them.

You have certainly heard the sad stories of the Guantanamo and Abu-Ghraib prisons. The US administration attempts to justify them through its proclaimed "war on terror." But every one knows that such behavior, in fact, offends global public opinion, exacerbates resentment and thereby spreads terrorism, and tarnishes the US image and its credibility among nations.

The US administration's illegal and immoral behavior is not even confined to outside its borders. You are witnessing daily that under the pretext of "the war on terror," civil liberties in the United States are being increasingly curtailed. Even the privacy of individuals is fast losing its meaning. Judicial due process and fundamental rights are trampled upon. Private phones are tapped, suspects are arbitrarily arrested, sometimes beaten in the streets, or even shot to death.

I have no doubt that the American people do not approve of this behavior and indeed deplore it.

The US administration does not accept accountability before any organization, institution or council. The US administration has undermined the credibility of international organizations, particularly the United Nations and its Security Council. But, I do not intend to address all the challenges and calamities in this message.

The legitimacy, power and influence of a government do not emanate from its arsenals of tanks, fighter aircrafts, missiles or nuclear weapons. Legitimacy and influence reside in sound logic, quest for justice and compassion and empathy for all humanity. The global position of the United States is in all probability weakened because the administration has continued to resort to force, to conceal the truth, and to mislead the American people about its policies and practices.

Undoubtedly, the American people are not satisfied with this behavior and they showed their discontent in the recent elections. I hope that in the wake of the mid-term elections, the administration of President Bush will have heard and will heed the message of the American people.

My questions are the following:

Is there not a better approach to governance?

Is it not possible to put wealth and power in the service of peace, stability, prosperity and the happiness of all peoples through a commitment to justice and respect for the rights of all nations, instead of aggression and war?

We all condemn terrorism, because its victims are the innocent.

But, can terrorism be contained and eradicated through war, destruction and the killing of hundreds of thousands of innocents?

If that were possible, then why has the problem not been resolved?

The sad experience of invading Iraq is before us all.

What has blind support for the Zionists by the US administration brought for the American people? It is regrettable that for the US administration, the interests of these occupiers supersedes the interests of the American people and of the other nations of the world.

What have the Zionists done for the American people that the US administration considers itself obliged to blindly support these infamous aggressors? Is it not because they have imposed themselves on a substantial portion of the banking, financial, cultural and media sectors?

I recommend that in a demonstration of respect for the American people and for humanity, the right of Palestinians to live in their own homeland should be recognized so that millions of Palestinian refugees can return to their homes and the future of all of Palestine and its form of government be determined in a referendum. This will benefit everyone.

Now that Iraq has a Constitution and an independent Assembly and Government, would it not be more beneficial to bring the US officers and soldiers home, and to spend the astronomical US military expenditures in Iraq for the welfare and prosperity of the American people? As you know very well, many victims of Katrina continue to suffer, and countless Americans continue to live in poverty and homelessness.

I'd also like to say a word to the winners of the recent elections in the US:

The United States has had many administrations; some who have left a positive legacy, and others that are neither remembered fondly by the American people nor by other nations.

Now that you control an important branch of the US Government, you will also be held to account by the people and by history.

If the US Government meets the current domestic and external challenges with an approach based on truth and Justice, it can remedy some of the past afflictions and alleviate some of the global resentment and hatred of America. But if the approach remains the same, it would not be unexpected that the American people would similarly reject the new electoral winners, although the recent elections, rather than reflecting a victory, in reality point to the failure of the current administration's policies. These issues had been extensively dealt with in my letter to President Bush earlier this year.

To sum up:

It is possible to govern based on an approach that is distinctly different from one of coercion, force and injustice.

It is possible to sincerely serve and promote common human values, and honesty and compassion.

It is possible to provide welfare and prosperity without tension, threats, imposition or war.

It is possible to lead the world towards the aspired perfection by adhering to unity, monotheism, morality and spirituality and drawing upon the teachings of the Divine Prophets.

Then, the American people, who are God-fearing and followers of Divine religions, will overcome every difficulty.

What I stated represents some of my anxieties and concerns.

I am confident that you, the American people, will play an instrumental role in the establishment of justice and spirituality throughout the world. The promises of the Almighty and His prophets will certainly be realized, Justice and Truth will prevail and all nations will live a true life in a climate replete with love, compassion and fraternity.

The US governing establishment, the authorities and the powerful should not choose irreversible paths. As all prophets have taught us, injustice and transgression will eventually bring about decline and demise. Today, the path of return to faith and spirituality is open and unimpeded.

We should all heed the Divine Word of the Holy Qur'an:

"But those who repent, have faith and do good may receive Salvation. Your Lord, alone, creates and chooses as He will, and others have no part in His choice; Glorified is God and Exalted above any partners they ascribe to Him." (28:67-68)

I pray to the Almighty to bless the Iranian and American nations and indeed all nations of the world with dignity and success.

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad
President of the Islamic Republic of Iran
29 November 2006


---------------------------------------------


What are peoples reactions to this?



--Paz

Ander
30th November 2006, 02:11
Minus all the religious garbage, it is quite well written. Too bad the American government will read this and instead of making a difference, they will try to prove to Iran that they have bigger balls than them.

"We must stay the course" blah blah. Ugh.

Phalanx
30th November 2006, 03:35
Well, he's extending his hand to the American people, but something tells me that he doesn't have Jewish Americans in mind.

Anton
30th November 2006, 03:41
it's not bad once all the religious crap is taken out.
When taking the letter into consideration as an entity separate from the man who wrote it and his prejudices, actions and views, it has some very valid points and is overall way smarter then the average garbage the US government produces.

RebeldePorLaPAZ
30th November 2006, 03:49
Well, one important thing that it states that I found to be quite interesting was the tone and attitude that it was taking. Bashing the Bush administration for failing in Iraq and almost presenting himself as more powerful than Bush at this point of the War.

It is important to point out that the United States military and the U.S. power has fallen sharply and he points this out with Guantanamo and Abu-Ghraib prisons. The creditably of the United States has been damaged due to false pretext of this war.


Let's take a look at Iraq. Since the commencement of the US military presence in Iraq, hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have been killed, maimed or displaced. Terrorism in Iraq has grown exponentially. With the presence of the US military in Iraq, nothing has been done to rebuild the ruins, to restore the infrastructure or to alleviate poverty. The US Government used the pretext of the existence of weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, but later it became clear that that was just a lie and a deception.

It was before the war that Bush hoped that getting rid of Saddam would bring democracy and peace to Iraq that would trigger into Iran and cause a regime change in Iran so that funding for Hezbollah and Hamas would stop and that this change would domino its way into Saudi Arabia.

Instead Iraq is a mess, Iran is now stronger and so is Hezbollah and Hamas after the Israeli terror attacks.

It seems that Iran really now has the upper hand on in bringing stability to Iraq and that there influence has only grown against the US aggression. I feel that the the Senate may look at this after seeing all the faults of Iraq so far and possibly think of brining Iran onto the table. So Iran may have something to gain here.



--Paz

Anton
30th November 2006, 03:58
true,
Iraq has turned out the way I thought it was going to, if somebody actually believed the whole domino effect regime change bull they should explain to me how they saw that happening.

RebeldePorLaPAZ
30th November 2006, 04:00
It was a Republican dream to secure their oil power and dominance in the region, but i feel that they lost it and made a lot of peoples lives miserable.

My thought on it.


--Paz

Anton
30th November 2006, 04:06
indeed

YSR
30th November 2006, 07:09
Originally posted by Ahmadinijihad
The US administration's illegal and immoral behavior is not even confined to outside its borders. You are witnessing daily that under the pretext of "the war on terror," civil liberties in the United States are being increasingly curtailed. Even the privacy of individuals is fast losing its meaning. Judicial due process and fundamental rights are trampled upon. Private phones are tapped, suspects are arbitrarily arrested, sometimes beaten in the streets, or even shot to death.

I liked this part because it was honestly the most hypocritical thing I've seen in at least the last week. And I've seen some doozies.

I suggest people read up on the horrifying actions of Iranian authorities to their people before extending a free pass to this cat. Just because his position is that to counter U.S. interests doesn't make his government any better.

Raisa
30th November 2006, 07:11
Originally posted by Tatanka [email protected] 30, 2006 03:35 am
Well, he's extending his hand to the American people, but something tells me that he doesn't have Jewish Americans in mind.
He has americans in mind.
Jewish americans ars americans....but no one needs to kiss the asses of zionists.
Why would you make that assertation?!
he said nothnig against jews.

If you are a zionist and a jew....oh well....

YSR
30th November 2006, 07:51
Did you hear the one about the reactionary president who questioned the Holocaust?

No? Don't worry, it wasn't very funny anyhow. It turned into farce when supposedly "progressive" individuals supported him. Not a particularly good farce though.

h&s
30th November 2006, 08:58
/\ lol, this is hilarious!

I can not believe that people are actually taking any of this seriously. Here we have the leader of the only (?) theocratic state in the world, and just a few populist anti-imperialist and anti-Zionist comments and everyone supports and respects him :rolleyes:
And he goes on about how unjust Guantanamo and Abu-Ghraib when he leads a country where you can be hanged for having pre-marital or homosexual sex, he criticises the US for going into Iraq when he funds Iraqi militias.
And lets not even go into oppression of the worker&#39;s movement in Iran.... <_<

Cooler Reds Will Prevail
30th November 2006, 09:59
http://photos-265.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v48/0/125/12905931/n12905931_31976265_1342.jpg


http://photos-264.ak.facebook.com/ip002/v48/0/125/12905931/n12905931_31976264_1080.jpg


http://photos-843.facebook.com/ip002/v48/0/125/12905931/n12905931_31971843_8461.jpg


http://photos-841.facebook.com/ip002/v48/0/125/12905931/n12905931_31971841_7874.jpg


Religion is not the issue.

I&#39;m not a big fan of Ahmadinejad either, and I found quite a bit of the article rather hypocritical. But I think the questions that he posed to the American people in the letter do not lose their relevance because of it. We should be working on formulating answers to these questions, regardless of the credibility (or lack thereof) of the writer.

RebeldePorLaPAZ
30th November 2006, 14:22
I suggest people read up on the horrifying actions of Iranian authorities to their people before extending a free pass to this cat. Just because his position is that to counter U.S. interests doesn&#39;t make his government any better.

I don&#39;t believe anybody commented on the validity of the individual itself, more of the position of the Iranian government in the Iraqi conflict and the content of that letter, thats all.


I can not believe that people are actually taking any of this seriously. Here we have the leader of the only (?) theocratic state in the world, and just a few populist anti-imperialist and anti-Zionist comments and everyone supports and respects him rolleyes.gif
And he goes on about how unjust Guantanamo and Abu-Ghraib when he leads a country where you can be hanged for having pre-marital or homosexual sex, he criticises the US for going into Iraq when he funds Iraqi militias.
And lets not even go into oppression of the worker&#39;s movement in Iran.... dry.gif

Please point out who came out and said I support and respect this president actions. My position on Iran is stated in this very well written article from the Free Press.

As the U.S. war machine gears up again, we demand: Hands off Iran&#33; (http://www.freepeoplesmovement.org/fpm/page.php?61)


While we defend the right of imperialist-oppressed countries like Iran to pursue nuclear capabilities, we don’t lend one ounce of support to the reactionary, fundamentalist Iranian government.

At the same time we demand that the imperialists keep their bloody claws off of Iran, we also join with the Iranian working class and its allies in their struggle to overthrow the repressive Mullah regime and unite with our working brothers and sisters and other oppressed people in the U.S. in struggle to build the consciousness required for the revolutionary overthrow of capitalism in the “belly of the beast”.

If the U.S., Israel, and/or any other imperialists attack or invade Iran we will stand for the complete defense of that country, because we know that every defeat of imperialism is a victory for working and oppressed people everywhere. An imperialist victory in Iran would only encourage the advancement of the “war on terror,” with all the repression and attacks on working and oppressed people all over the world that that entails.



--Paz

Severian
30th November 2006, 15:01
Originally posted by Raisa+November 30, 2006 01:11 am--> (Raisa @ November 30, 2006 01:11 am)
Originally posted by Tatanka [email protected] 30, 2006 03:35 am
Well, he&#39;s extending his hand to the American people, but something tells me that he doesn&#39;t have Jewish Americans in mind.
Why would you make that assertation?&#33;
he said nothnig against jews. [/b]
On the contrary:


[email protected] 29, 2006 07:17 pm
What have the Zionists done for the American people that the US administration considers itself obliged to blindly support these infamous aggressors? Is it not because they have imposed themselves on a substantial portion of the banking, financial, cultural and media sectors?

In other words, the claim here is that the U.S. government supports Israel because American Jews own a "substantial portion" of the banks and media. The similarity of this to traditional Nazi rhetoric is obvious. Rightists in the Middle East are often influenced by Western rightists.

And when Western leftists start cheerleading these Middle Eastern rightists and pretending there&#39;s something progressive about them - they are sometimes also influenced by these same rightist ideas.

It&#39;s only one paragraph - but I wouldn&#39;t want to eat something with just one teaspoon of rat poison in it.

****

Other than that? It&#39;s good that he&#39;s making an appeal to the "American people" and a distinction between the people and government. It might undercut war propaganda a bit. Since the primary claim in whipping up support for the "war on terrorism" is that Those People Want to Kill Us All.

Most of the content is just borrowed from the debates in U.S. bourgeois politics, all the standard criticisms of Bush administration policies. Even on civil liberties, which as YSR and H&S point out is incredibly hypocritical coming from him.

Probably this letter won&#39;t have that much impact, in part because of that hypocrisy. Ahmadinejad&#39;s previous Holocaust-denying rhetoric tends to close ears to him too. Makes it easy for the media to report this in a way where most people won&#39;t take it too seriously. One example of how it&#39;s covered (http://www.boston.com/news/world/articles/2006/11/30/irans_president_tries_the_direct_approach/)

Today, it gets harder to have one kind of rhetoric for domestic consumption and another for international consumption.

h&s
30th November 2006, 15:49
Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 02:22 pm
Please point out who came out and said I support and respect this president actions. My position on Iran is stated in this very well written article from the Free Press.




I wasn&#39;t saying that you supported this, but a lot of people on the left do. I really don&#39;t think that it is worth our time or effort to even bother discussing what this guy says - the rat poison quote is a good one, though after reading the article in Severian&#39;s post I certainly see the advantage in actually reading the document. :lol:

Dimentio
30th November 2006, 16:24
Ahmadinejad&#39;s blog (http://www.ahmadinejad.ir)

It exists on English, as you could see on the upper right corner. It is fascinating.

RebeldePorLaPAZ
30th November 2006, 16:27
I think the blog looks cute.

:blush:



--Paz

YSR
30th November 2006, 17:46
Two Years Imprisonment for Speaking at a May Day Celebration&#33; An Event that Never Took Place&#33;

November 29, 2006: According to the official ISNA news agency, as well as an authentic copy of court verdict, Mr. Mohsen Hakimi, who was arrested on May 1st, 2004 and subsequently charged with attempting to hold an illegal gathering for the purpose of committing crime against the country’s national security has been sentenced to 2 years imprisonment by the Branch One of the Saqez’ Revolution Court. Mr. Hakimi, who is a labour activist and a member of the Iranian Writers’ Association and a resident of Tehran, was invited to speak at the May Day event in Saqez on May 1st 2004. However, prior to the event taking place, the security forces arrested scores of people including Hakimi and the event organizers mentioned below and hence the event never took place. Since then, these labour activists have gone through numerous court hearings and persecutions. In March 2005, Mr. Hakimi was sentenced to two years in jail. That sentence was appealed by his lawyer and subsequently overturned by the Kurdistan Province Court of Appeal, Division 7 in May 2006. However, the Saqez Revolutionary Court decided to press new charges against him, as well as Mahmoud Salehi, Jalal Hosseini, Borhan Divargar and Mohammad Abdipour.

As of this time, the most recent sentences in the Saqez case are as follows:
Mahmoud Salehi: 4 years
Jalal Hosseini: 2 years
Borhan Divargar: 2 years
Mohsen Hakimi: 2 years
Mohammad Abdipour: Acquitted

For more information, contact [email protected] or [email protected]
International Alliance in Support of Workers in Iran
Background Information: www.workers-iran.org

Ah, that progressive regime&#33;

Guerrilla22
30th November 2006, 19:10
The uS isn&#39;t interested in negociating with Iran, the US never compromises when it comes to foreign policy, unless its facing a country with a credible military threat, which currently Iran is not.

Keyser
1st December 2006, 04:34
This letter is nothing more than yet more propaganda from one power crazed tyrant hypocritcally highlighting the crimes and barbarity of the tyranny of US imperialism.

There are many Iranian labour organisations, progressive movements, social movements and communist groups that are in a much better position to speak of the crimes committed by US imperialism. Why do we have to resort to using the letter of a dictator to highlight what is essentially common knowledge anyway?


The US isn&#39;t interested in negociating with Iran, the US never compromises when it comes to foreign policy, unless its facing a country with a credible military threat, which currently Iran is not.

Iran is not as strong as Russia or China, that is true. But Iran is in a much stronger economic, political and military position than Iraq before the 2003 invasion was, way stronger.

Iran has a larger army than Iraq&#39;s, an army not divided by sectarian religious and ethnic lines, more well equiped and more well trained with more reliable and advance weaponry. Iran is the most militarily powerful nation in the Middle East after Israel. So given the trouble US imperialism is in at the moment in Iraq and Afghanistan, Iran need not worry much about any US attack soon.

RNK
1st December 2006, 07:09
Unfortunately, the bulk of Iran&#39;s armed forces would be annihilated reguardless of their superiority to Iraq&#39;s forces. They are nowhere near the strength of the US. The only hope Iran would have is the same as Iraq; unconventional guerilla warfare.

Anyway, I don&#39;t like this guy, mainly because of my knowledge of him as told me by members of Iranian communist parties. He is just as anti-Communist as they come.

Ander
1st December 2006, 18:36
Originally posted by h&s+--> (h&s)I can not believe that people are actually taking any of this seriously. Here we have the leader of the only (?) theocratic state in the world, and just a few populist anti-imperialist and anti-Zionist comments and everyone supports and respects him[/b]

Uh...what the hell are you talking about? Nobody here even hinted that they respected or supported him at all.


Ernest
Unfortunately, the bulk of Iran&#39;s armed forces would be annihilated reguardless of their superiority to Iraq&#39;s forces. They are nowhere near the strength of the US. The only hope Iran would have is the same as Iraq; unconventional guerilla warfare.

Are you sure? They have a huge Republican Guard force...I think they might stand a better chance against the US than Iraq, especially now.

RebeldePorLaPAZ
2nd December 2006, 16:58
To add to that, Iran and China have a good relationship. So while the US have been in war in Iraq who knows, Iran could have been buffing up their military to prepare for a US invasion.

Chavez has also stated that Venezuela is ready to defend an imperialist attack by the United States on Iran. The Iran and Venezuela relationship is also one that has grown as the US continues it war.



--Paz

Star
3rd January 2007, 22:20
Iran so that funding for Hezbollah and Hamas would stop

There is no serious evidence that the Iranian government funds either of these. It is a fallacy to cast blame on an external power for the behavior of a group with which it is friendly. With or without outside support, resistance to Israel and its illegal occupation would continue unabated. The connection of Iran to Hamas is especially baseless. At most, Hezbollah receives &#036;200 million in private religious contributions from the world&#39;s Shias who are obligated by their doctrines to donate. The amount Hezbollah receives from Iran is a fraction of its operating budget.

This alleged responsibility of Iran for Hezbollah is a fabrication of the bourgeois press in order to justify the recolonization of Iran. Neo-Con William Kristol interpreted Israel&#39;s aggression against Lebanon as having been provoked by Iran and that there should have therefore been a "retaliatory" strike agains Iran. Hezbollah is a national liberation front fighting foreign occupation and enjoys broad support from Lebanon&#39;s Shia workers. When Lebanon was invaded by the Zionist hordes the people rallied behind the resistance. It is all well elaborated here:
http://www.inthesetimes.com/site/main/article/2790/

Fawkes
3rd January 2007, 22:38
Sounds like Ahmadinejad is trying to pull a Hugo Chavez.

Honestly, this letter is full of the most hypocritical bullshit I&#39;ve ever heard in my life. Iran respects human rights? Ha, yeah fuckin&#39; right, they hang gay teenagers and they don&#39;t even consider rape a crime. Tatanka, you&#39;re right about the Jewish thing, Ahmadinejad is an extremely racist piece of shit who one day will say that "the Holocaust is grossly exagerated" and than another day will say "Hitler didn&#39;t go far enough." If this letter is an actual attempt at winning over the American people, it&#39;s not going to do a very good job because most Americans support Israel. As a last note, I would just like to say that I find this letter to be extremely poorly written.

P.S. How the hell do you pronounce his name?

Star
3rd January 2007, 22:46
Tatanka, you&#39;re right about the Jewish thing, Ahmadinejad is an extremely racist piece of shit

What basis is there to that? At the Holocaust conference hosted in Iran Jewish groups in opposition to Zionism were present. You are reciting the propaganda of the bourgeois press.


who one day will say that "the Holocaust is grossly exagerated"

He called it a myth but did not deny the persecution of Jews. The fate of Jewry in the war is one of many reasons Zionists employ to justify their illegal occupation of Palestinian territory.


this letter to be extremely poorly written.

P.S. How the hell do you pronounce his name?

You are employing what is a form of ignorant racism. You expect everyone to speak your language and do not consider that this letter was translated. You do not even make an effort to learn the pronunciation of his name.

Fawkes
3rd January 2007, 22:58
I am making the effort to learn it by asking here. The fact that it was translated does not change the fact that it was poorly written so do not call me racist.

He is racist in that he refers to the Western media as the "Zionist media", which shows a belief that Jews control a large part of the media. I hate Zionists but I know that they do not control a large part of the media.

Star
3rd January 2007, 23:07
He is racist in that he refers to the Western media as the "Zionist media"

Opposition to Zionism fails to correspond to racism. There is vocal Jewish dissidence against Israel employed by Michel Chossudovsky, Norman Finkelstein, and others. If Ahmadinejad clamped down on Iran&#39;s Jews, then it would be fair to call him racist.


I hate Zionists but I know that they do not control a large part of the media.

It is an indisputable fact that the media in America is supportive of Israel. Because of this bias, the US media is Zionist. But in other countries, there is in some instances sympathy for Palestinians. This proves my case about the Zionism of the US corporate media:
http://www.projectcensored.org/newsflash/ap_bias.html

Fawkes
3rd January 2007, 23:13
Opposition to Zionism fails to correspond to racism.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, I was under the impression that I was a racist.

Also, would calling the Holocaust a "myth" not be considered racism?

stevec
3rd January 2007, 23:18
Originally posted by Freedom for [email protected] 03, 2007 11:13 pm

Opposition to Zionism fails to correspond to racism.

Thanks for clearing that up for me, I was under the impression that I was a racist.

Also, would calling the Holocaust a "myth" not be considered racism?
He is no different than any western leader with his mixed messages and denial of history. However, he has asked a legitimate question: If the Palestinians were not responsible for the Holocaust, then why was their land taken from them?

Arlington National Cemetary is built on Lee&#39;s old homestead, but Lee was in the battle and lost. This is like freeing the American slaves and evicting everyone in Mexico.

Perhaps the desire to create a Jewish state was just another racist version of "separate but equal." It accomplishes what Hitler sought in getting the Jews out of Eurpoe.

Fawkes
3rd January 2007, 23:24
Calling the Holocaust a myth is in no way a statement that questions Israel&#39;s right to exist.

Phalanx
4th January 2007, 00:40
What basis is there to that? At the Holocaust conference hosted in Iran Jewish groups in opposition to Zionism were present. You are reciting the propaganda of the bourgeois press.


The only reason Ahmadinejad had the handful of Orthodox there is to &#39;prove&#39; the conference wasn&#39;t anti-semitic.


He called it a myth but did not deny the persecution of Jews.

And why would he call it a myth, exactly? Could it be that he&#39;s anti-Semitic?

stevec
4th January 2007, 00:51
Originally posted by Tatanka [email protected] 04, 2007 12:40 am



The only reason Ahmadinejad had the handful of Orthodox there is to &#39;prove&#39; the conference wasn&#39;t anti-semitic.
No, they were there because they agreed with his political view. In general, people do not hold conferences to hear ideas that they do not like. They want to sit around and gaze at each other&#39;s belly-button and then proclaim that they are wise and agree.

Like Hate Hours, mutual admiration meetings are quite common, too. You know, like forums that attract only people of a particular point of view. :-)

Phalanx
4th January 2007, 02:40
Originally posted by stevec+January 04, 2007 12:51 am--> (stevec &#064; January 04, 2007 12:51 am)
Tatanka [email protected] 04, 2007 12:40 am



The only reason Ahmadinejad had the handful of Orthodox there is to &#39;prove&#39; the conference wasn&#39;t anti-semitic.
No, they were there because they agreed with his political view. In general, people do not hold conferences to hear ideas that they do not like. They want to sit around and gaze at each other&#39;s belly-button and then proclaim that they are wise and agree.

Like Hate Hours, mutual admiration meetings are quite common, too. You know, like forums that attract only people of a particular point of view. :-) [/b]
I&#39;m saying the only reason Ahmadinejad had Jews at the conference was to &#39;show&#39; the world he&#39;s not an anti-Semite.

They were the token Jews at an anti-Semitic conference. That was it. Mainstream Jews believe the Holocaust happened, Ahmadinejad and his cronies aren&#39;t fooling anyone.

stevec
4th January 2007, 05:02
Originally posted by Tatanka Iyotank+January 04, 2007 02:40 am--> (Tatanka Iyotank @ January 04, 2007 02:40 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 12:51 am

Tatanka [email protected] 04, 2007 12:40 am



The only reason Ahmadinejad had the handful of Orthodox there is to &#39;prove&#39; the conference wasn&#39;t anti-semitic.
No, they were there because they agreed with his political view. In general, people do not hold conferences to hear ideas that they do not like. They want to sit around and gaze at each other&#39;s belly-button and then proclaim that they are wise and agree.

Like Hate Hours, mutual admiration meetings are quite common, too. You know, like forums that attract only people of a particular point of view. :-)
I&#39;m saying the only reason Ahmadinejad had Jews at the conference was to &#39;show&#39; the world he&#39;s not an anti-Semite.

They were the token Jews at an anti-Semitic conference. That was it. Mainstream Jews believe the Holocaust happened, Ahmadinejad and his cronies aren&#39;t fooling anyone. [/b]
I doubt the Jews think they were "token" people. Ahmadinejad thinks he is right. He assembled anyone who agreed as a united front. Did he call "rent a Jew" and have them dress up? :-)

The Jews that attended do not believe Israel should exist as well. Based on their reading of scripture, the creation of Israel was forced by man, and not made by God&#39;s hand.

Also, the first thing they stated was that the Holocaust did occur, and that it was because of the failure of the Jews to live by the instructions God gave them. (I suspect this is what Mel Gibson&#39;s drunken rant was referring to.) So 1.) they affirmed the holocaust. 2.) believe the Jews were being punished by God for being unfaithful. (Some call this blaming the victim, but it is on a cosmic scale, like the blow-back of an imperialist foreign policy. I think their idea has a lot of merit.)

They are very keen to live by the word of God. The irony is that their actions against the existence of Israel fall into the same pattern they are wary of: the artificial destruction and construction of a State.

Orwell wins again. Restart the wheel.

UndergroundConnexion
14th January 2007, 14:49
the Jews present at that conference were not denying the Holocaust. They were against the state of Israel, because they think they should not have a state.

Severian
14th January 2007, 22:37
Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2007 08:49 am
the Jews present at that conference were not denying the Holocaust. They were against the state of Israel, because they think they should not have a state.
Yeah, they have some religious opposition to it - no restoration of Israel &#39;til the Messiah comes or something. Steve&#39;s right, they&#39;re a pretty token group.

Middle Eastern rightists especially seem to like &#39;em as a way of not looking anti-Semitic. They sure don&#39;t want to deal with Israeli or other Jewish leftists.....