The Free State Project

[freakazoid]

Has anybody heard of this movement called the Free State Project? http://www.freestateproject.org/ What they are trying to do is get 20,000 people to sign that they will move to New Hampshire once there are 20,000 people signed up. The people are Libertarians that have come up with the idea. What they are trying to do is get all the people that are like minded to all move together so that they have a more collective voice. Not all are Libertarians that are doing it though, I have read that even some anarchists are going there.
What I was thinking is that this is a really good idea, and these people also might be a little more willing to learn about communism/anarchism. What are your thoughts?

[YSR]

I'm sure my post-leftist friend will probably stop by there at some point.

Personally, I think it's crap. Mostly because by not offering a counter-power to the federal government, it's just asking to be totally sidestepped or crushed by the U.S. govt.

[Whitten]

There are plenty of communes for people to go and hide in already. It doesnt accomplish anything though.

[freakazoid]

There not doing it to hide, they are doing it so that they have a bigger voice.

[forza_che]

Libertarian bullshit

[freakazoid]

Libertarians are close enough to us. All that needs to happen is to educate them.

[forza_che]

This isn't the way to fight against capitalism and help people.

They way to do is to stand up and be counted and to get involved with politics and bring about as many changes you can.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2006 08:00 pm
What are your thoughts?
I think this is perhaps a thread for chit chat? But I will allow it for now <_<

[Enragé]

alienating yourself in "free areas" always ends up with the death of that movement.

We&#39;ve seen it countless times, from communes in the US to large parts of the dutch squatter-movement

so
why go through that again?

[MrDoom]

"Free State" is an oxymoron. There is no freedom where there is a State.

[Janus]

What are your thoughts?
Isolating oneself in some commune isn&#39;t going to really impact or change society overall. It&#39;s been attempted before and they usually fall apart. Besides, the people who are planning on moving to this commune are not the ones you need to target, rather you need to target those who are not sympathetic to it.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2006 09:04 pm
Libertarians are close enough to us. All that needs to happen is to educate them.
Wow. So that&#39;s what happens when you rate libertarianism over socialism.

[An archist]

Libertarians close to &#39;us&#39;? :huh: Libertarianism is one of the most extreme forms of capitalism.

[Enragé]

Originally posted by An [email protected] 30, 2006 11:06 am
Libertarians close to &#39;us&#39;? :huh: Libertarianism is one of the most extreme forms of capitalism.
libertarian communism encompasses everything from anarchocommunism to councilcommunism.

the world "libertarian" in its most accurate way points to these forms of revolutionary leftism

[An archist]

Yes, Libertarian communsim, but 4libertarian&#39; in general is used to describe small-state uber-capitalists.

[The Feral Underclass]

Come on guys, you lot can do better than this. The guy has come here with some genuine thoughts, at least give the guy something to think about. Jeez&#33;


What are your thoughts?

What are they trying to achieve?

Many people on this board want to create communism, and the only way to do that is by destroying capitalism. Moving all the way to New Hampshire isnt going to achieve that, so in terms of how we should look at it as communists - we should probably say its a bad idea.

If 20,000 workers decided to stop working and reclaim their communities and work places, that would be something important because it is a step towards destroying capitalism.

[freakazoid]

Libertarians close to &#39;us&#39;? Libertarianism is one of the most extreme forms of capitalism.

From what I have read they seem to want alot of what anarchists want, except that there is a government, like they think that the govenment is only there to help uphold the US Bill of Rights and that is all, nothing more.


Many people on this board want to create communism, and the only way to do that is by destroying capitalism. Moving all the way to New Hampshire isnt going to achieve that, so in terms of how we should look at it as communists - we should probably say its a bad idea.

They chose New Hampshire because it has some of the least restrictive laws around. And like I said they are all moving to one state so they have a collective voice.


If 20,000 workers decided to stop working and reclaim their communities and work places, that would be something important because it is a step towards destroying capitalism.

I agree. But only a small step. But a step none the less.


Isolating oneself in some commune isn&#39;t going to really impact or change society overall. It&#39;s been attempted before and they usually fall apart. Besides, the people who are planning on moving to this commune are not the ones you need to target, rather you need to target those who are not sympathetic to it.

As I am unfamilier with alot of communist/anarchist history I would like to know more about these communes that have failed, :) . I think that they should be targeted because since they are already close to anarchist thought, like I said above, then they might be easier to talk with about it and to convice them to join us. And if we have them on our side then that would be a huge force to recon with. And if there are already alot in one state then perhaps a succesion from the government could be the next step, and then a full out revolution. :D

[An archist]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2006 05:41 am
From what I have read they seem to want alot of what anarchists want, except that there is a government, like they think that the govenment is only there to help uphold the US Bill of Rights and that is all, nothing more.

Yes they advocate a &#39;nightwatchmen state&#39; (don&#39;t know the actual translation), where there would be no healthcare or taxes or anything, just courthouses, police and military and if you needed one of them you&#39;d have to pay for it.
So basically it&#39;s a bunch of soldiers of fortune fighting for the highest bidder.

[Blue Collar Bohemian]

There is no such thing as a poor or working class Libertarian, so there can be no such thing as a revolutionary Libertarian.

[Dimentio]

Libertarians are crazy, but a network of communes could theoretically work

[bezdomni]

From what I have read they seem to want alot of what anarchists want, except that there is a government, like they think that the govenment is only there to help uphold the US Bill of Rights and that is all, nothing more.
Does the US Bill of Rights ensure a living wage? Does it grant the right for workers to unionize? Does it even abolish slavery or give women the right to vote?

The bill of rights is weak as shit, and any society that runs only on the first ten amendments to the US constitution will face tons of problems.

Anyway, these are bourgeois libertarian capitalists. They are still reactionaries, they just don&#39;t want to burn homosexuals or arrest people for smoking pot.

[freakazoid]

Does the US Bill of Rights ensure a living wage? Does it grant the right for workers to unionize? Does it even abolish slavery or give women the right to vote?

Umm... Yes and no. It doesn&#39;t actually use those words but it doesn&#39;t need to address every single kind of person, white or black, old or young, female or male. Just people. Why should they even be an issue?

This is what each amendment says:



Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.


Amendment III
No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.


Amendment IV
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.


Amendment V
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.


Amendment VI
In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense.


Amendment VII
In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law.


Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.


Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.


Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.

Also I don&#39;t think that people need money.

Anyway, these are bourgeois libertarian capitalists.

And like I had said I think that they would be a good group of people to convince to join us. They just need to be shown the errors of capitalism.

[freakazoid]

Perhaps these people might be more willing to set up some kind of militia. These people are actually doing something to create a change. Alot more than some people here it seems.

[Fawkes]

They chose New Hampshire because it has some of the least restrictive laws around. And like I said they are all moving to one state so they have a collective voice.
Also because N.H. has a surprisingly large libertarian population.

When it comes to issues such as gay marriage and drug legalization, libertarians are usually on our side, but when it comes to economic issues, we could not be further apart. As leftists, libertarians are not our friends, they are our enemies as much as fascists are.

[freakazoid]

But they are apart from us on the economic issue only because they don&#39;t know what it is that communism and anarchy really is. After all before I became an anarchist I was a libertarian. I had believed that people still needed a government to help keep order. But I no longer believe that because I have been educated more on the subject. I believe that many of them are the same.

[Dimentio]

Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2007 06:46 am
But they are apart from us on the economic issue only because they don&#39;t know what it is that communism and anarchy really is. After all before I became an anarchist I was a libertarian. I had believed that people still needed a government to help keep order. But I no longer believe that because I have been educated more on the subject. I believe that many of them are the same.
And the free market fetischism then? ^^

[Dimentio]

Òtherwise, the communalisation is a rather good way as long as it does&#39;nt intend to mean isolation.