The Pilgrims

[AlwaysAnarchy]

This is related to another thread but here I wanted to specifically focus on the Pilgrims themselves. From what I hear in school they were separtists who wanted to practice a different religion and wanted religious freedoms. The books in school makes them out to be some kind of heroes, "Heroes of America" even.

So what do we think about them? Did they play a positive role...or not??

[bcbm]

They were puritans, that is, religious, authoritarian, absolutist fuckbags who were kicked out of England and then came to the US, where they robbed corpses from the Natives (and their own) and, after the natives felt bad for them and offered some food, killed the Natives and stole their land. Fuck them, their boat should've sunk.

[Fawkes]

^^^ True dat son ^^^

[YSR]

Fuck "religious freedom" if it comes at the expense of "life".

It's funny how this keeps showing up. Abortion protesters, anyone?

[MrDoom]

Sure, they were for "religious freedom"; notably the "freedom" to kill the "heathen" natives.

Though we must not forget Columbus' role in this. If anyone's boat(s) should have sunk, it should have been his.

[R_P_A_S]

LMAO! bout their boats sinking... :D :lol: :P :lol:

[Lenin's Law]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2006 11:55 pm
Though we must not forget Columbus' role in this. If anyone's boat(s) should have sunk, it should have been his.
But what would that have done? If Columbus' boat had sunk there would just be another "Columbus-esque" adventurer waiting to be next in line.

[chimx]

The pilgrims came about a generation after Europe's famed Reformation. The Catholic Church and the Church of England had become particularly corrupt by the 16th century, and Calvinism and Lutheranism began to take shape. While some reformers fought for reform within the Church of England, others became "seperatists" and tried to set up their own religious institutions elsewhere.

The pilgrims were such a group (though a generation later), sailing from england to amsterdam. They eventually didn't like it there. It wasn't "english" enough for them, so they headed over to the "new world" to set up their own colony instead. This was the group that would eventually come to be America's Baptist movement.

They have been made a part of America's cultural identity, but personally I'm pretty indifferent to them.

[Janus]

The books in school makes them out to be some kind of heroes, "Heroes of America" even.
Of course Americans only tell half the story about the "brave Pilgrims". After all, no one wants to think of their founding fathers as lying, murdering thieves, do they? Colonialism is never a pretty picture no matter how much it is painted over.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Actually contrary to popular belief *They didn't come to the Americas to establish religious freedom or tolerance, they were actually extremly intolerant* They came here to establish what they called a "City upon a hill", or a example of a strict Christian (Purtian) community for the world to follow. It was about creating a transplantation of England with they're religion and only theirs. They waned religious freedom for themselves not others. For example, there weren't very many catholics in 17th century English America, however the ones who were there were constantly harassed, persecuted, beaten etc...

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Lenin's Law+November 29, 2006 04:58 am--> (Lenin's Law @ November 29, 2006 04:58 am)
[email protected] 28, 2006 11:55 pm
Though we must not forget Columbus' role in this. If anyone's boat(s) should have sunk, it should have been his.
But what would that have done? If Columbus' boat had sunk there would just be another "Columbus-esque" adventurer waiting to be next in line. [/b]
Maybe not for a while. The white emigration to the New World was at first only Spanish. The English didn't come until around 100 years after the Spaniards. If Columbus's voyage had failed, the queen would most likely not invest in another gung-ho Columbus-style voyage. Afterall, she was quite hesitant to even fund Columbus's. BTW Columbus had more than one ship. If I remember correctly, I think one of his ships got beached.

[Cryotank Screams]

Typical euro-imperialists under the guise of religion.