A question on Immigrants

[emokid08]

Ive been thinking recently about those here in the US (and other places too) who are of Latin American decent or origin and who do such jobs as landscaping, commercial farming, various other yardworking (possibly farming), and other fields such as housekeeping in hotels or cooks in the kitchens.

Where do they fit into the puzzle? What of them? Are they lumpens?

My thought on that group of workers is that they probably have a great revolutionary potential---seeing as they’re probably the most visible segments of society being exploited today.

Sorry if this has already been discussed, was just curious. . . . . .
:A: :AO: :star:

[Janus]

Where do they fit into the puzzle? What of them? Are they lumpens?
No, the lumpenproletariat exist outside of the wage-labor system. Immigrant workers are members of the proletariat as they do sell their labor power usually at a lesser fee than "native" workers. Remember, wage slavery is not limited by nationality or other superficial divides.

[oihane]

If they were revolutionary material they would have stayed in their native countries to try and create changes in their situations but when a person is sufficiently ignorant it is just easier to start a new life somewhere else and assimilate into the routine of working to feed themselves as well as acquire material things.

[Anton]

Originally posted by [email protected] 30, 2006 03:58 am
If they were revolutionary material they would have stayed in their native countries to try and create changes in their situations but when a person is sufficiently ignorant it is just easier to start a new life somewhere else and assimilate into the routine of working to feed themselves as well as acquire material things.
bullshit.
some people need to migrate just to feed themselves, some are moved as children by their parents.
The fact that they have migrated doesn't exclude them from the worldwide proletariat, neither does it automatically make them "non-revolutionary".
If everyone just stayed in the place they were born, what kind of world would we have?

[Floyce White]

There is no such thing as a "lumpenproletariat" or "underclass." All families either own or do not own the things used by others. All persons are either upper class or lower class. The concept of "beneath class" is an upper-class attempt to divide the lower class against each other, so as to better direct and control its political activity.

[Janus]

If they were revolutionary material they would have stayed in their native countries to try and create changes in their situations
There is a difference between being a revolutionary and having revolutionary potential.


but when a person is sufficiently ignorant it is just easier to start a new life somewhere else and assimilate into the routine of working to feed themselves as well as acquire material things.
Call it ignorance if you would like, however, I wouldn't call someone ignorant if they are making the best of their situation and doing what is best for themselves and their families. People could care less about politics and rhetoric when they have hungry mouths to feed.

[Janus]

The concept of "beneath class"
I don't see the concept of lumpens as being comparable to that. You seem to be stating that they are being viewed as Untouchables. Rather, in the Marxist paradigm, lumpenproletariat is simply a way to categorize those who exist outside the wage labor system.