Gas Prices Again

[t_wolves_fan]

Quick question here.

If the oil companies controlled gas prices and set them at their leisure, presumably based on their desire to gouge the consumer, make billions, and also to ensure that the GOP did well in the elections...

...why did Citgo's prices follow the market exactly? Citgo of course is owned by the Venezuelan state oil company, which is in turn "owned" by the Venezuelan government.

So, either oil companies collude to rip off the conusmer and your friend Hugo Chavez was happy to play along,

or...

Citgo, like all the other oil companies, was at the mercy of the market when prices spiked in the United States this summer.

or...

Any other lunatic conspiracy theories you'd like to entertain me with.


Go.

[Delta]

Why would Hugo Chavez not want to make the maximum amount of cash for Venezuela? It's surely a better idea than subsidizing the habits of SUV-driving, GOP-voting Americans.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 04:52 pm
Why would Hugo Chavez not want to make the maximum amount of cash for Venezuela? It's surely a better idea than subsidizing the habits of SUV-driving, GOP-voting Americans.
So you're telling me Chavez consciously took advantage of the working class by charging them more for gasoline.

Oh and he also took advantage of them by charging higher prices for oil, which is used in the production of just about every product on the market today.

Nice! What a man of principle.

But wait, your statement brings up a question: do you think gas should be expensive so as to provide a disincentive to driving SUVs?

[JazzRemington]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 10:07 am
Quick question here.

If the oil companies controlled gas prices and set them at their leisure, presumably based on their desire to gouge the consumer, make billions, and also to ensure that the GOP did well in the elections...

...why did Citgo's prices follow the market exactly? Citgo of course is owned by the Venezuelan state oil company, which is in turn "owned" by the Venezuelan government.

So, either oil companies collude to rip off the conusmer and your friend Hugo Chavez was happy to play along,

or...

Citgo, like all the other oil companies, was at the mercy of the market when prices spiked in the United States this summer.

or...

Any other lunatic conspiracy theories you'd like to entertain me with.


Go.
You seem to be assuming too much.

No one who knows anything about economics, even the Left, will conclude that oil companies will always rip people off through high prices. This is not always true; however, there is a strong incentive to do this because the oil companies general hold a monopoly over the production and distribution of oil. Because there is an incentive does not mean someone will always do something.

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 07:07 am
Quick question here.

If the oil companies controlled gas prices and set them at their leisure, presumably based on their desire to gouge the consumer, make billions, and also to ensure that the GOP did well in the elections...

...why did Citgo's prices follow the market exactly? Citgo of course is owned by the Venezuelan state oil company, which is in turn "owned" by the Venezuelan government.

So, either oil companies collude to rip off the conusmer and your friend Hugo Chavez was happy to play along,

or...

Citgo, like all the other oil companies, was at the mercy of the market when prices spiked in the United States this summer.

or...

Any other lunatic conspiracy theories you'd like to entertain me with.


Go.
Either way, Chavez is not one of my favorite people whether or not someone tries to justify him for socialism or not.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 10:40 pm
No one who knows anything about economics, even the Left, will conclude that oil companies will always rip people off through high prices. This is not always true; however, there is a strong incentive to do this because the oil companies general hold a monopoly over the production and distribution of oil. Because there is an incentive does not mean someone will always do something.
So what's your point here? That high gas prices this summer were not the result of collusion on the part of oil companies since Chavez took part in it?

[JazzRemington]

Originally posted by t_wolves_fan+November 28, 2006 10:18 am--> (t_wolves_fan @ November 28, 2006 10:18 am)
[email protected] 27, 2006 10:40 pm
No one who knows anything about economics, even the Left, will conclude that oil companies will always rip people off through high prices. This is not always true; however, there is a strong incentive to do this because the oil companies general hold a monopoly over the production and distribution of oil. Because there is an incentive does not mean someone will always do something.
So what's your point here? That high gas prices this summer were not the result of collusion on the part of oil companies since Chavez took part in it? [/b]
My point is that you keep assuming too much.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2006 06:35 pm
[QUOTE=t_wolves_fan,November 28, 2006 10:18 am] My point is that you keep assuming too much.
What did I erroneously assume with regard to the specific phenomenon of rising gas prices this past summer and in recent months?

Because quite frankly, your previous post made no sense.

[D_Bokk]

Chavez has been the one hiking up the gas prices, which is why I like him so much. Venezuela deserves a lot more than the garbage the US kicks down to them.

Kudos to him for forcing the US to pay a fair price.

Originally posted by t_wolves_fan
So you're telling me Chavez consciously took advantage of the working class by charging them more for gasoline.
What working class? The middle class is a lot more accurate.

Chavez provides cheap oil to the people who can't afford to heat their homes in the poverty stricken places around America. In addition, he offered a helping hand to the Katrina victims. He's on top of things and helps those who need it – not the bousey motherfuckers living in the suburbs.

[t_wolves_fan]

Chavez has been the one hiking up the gas prices, which is why I like him so much. Venezuela deserves a lot more than the garbage the US kicks down to them.

Kudos to him for forcing the US to pay a fair price.

Fascinating.

Tell me, what do you think about the fact that gasoline is subsidized by the Venezuelan government to the point that it costs mere cents per gallon?

This subsidy in turn drives up demand, you understand, which means more fossil fuels are burnt which further damages the environment.

In fact, did you know that SUV sales are rising rapidly in Venezuela? (http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/articles.php?artno=1566)

It's different when people you like do it, isn't it Bokk.



Chavez provides cheap oil to the people who can't afford to heat their homes in the poverty stricken places around America. In addition, he offered a helping hand to the Katrina victims. He's on top of things and helps those who need it – not the bousey motherfuckers living in the suburbs.

Really.

A quick web search suggests Venezuela donated about $7 million in cash.

Would you like to guess how much was given by the American public?

Was it,

A> about $2.5 million

B> about $25 million

C> about $2.7 billion

Hint: Can't Count Cash Cooking Cold Cod Cut Crooked.

[D_Bokk]

Originally posted by t_wolves_fan
Fascinating.

Tell me, what do you think about the fact that gasoline is subsidized by the Venezuelan government to the point that it costs mere cents per gallon?

This subsidy in turn drives up demand, you understand, which means more fossil fuels are burnt which further damages the environment.

In fact, did you know that SUV sales are rising rapidly in Venezuela?

It's different when people you like do it, isn't it Bokk.
You're scolding Venezuela for selling their natural resources for low prices in their own country...? He also provides cheap oil for many of the third world countries, I bet you think that's a no-no too. Idiot.

Humans > Enviroment

Really.

A quick web search suggests Venezuela donated about $7 million in cash.

Would you like to guess how much was given by the American public?

Was it,

A> about $2.5 million

B> about $25 million

C> about $2.7 billion

Hint: Can't Count Cash Cooking Cold Cod Cut Crooked.
1) You forgot:
"An offer of aid from the Venezuelan president, Hugo Chávez, which included two mobile hospital units, 120 rescue and first aid experts and 50 tonnes of food, has been rejected, according to the civil rights leader, Jesse Jackson.

Mr Jackson said the offer from the Venezuelan leader, whom he recently met, included 10 water purification plants, 18 power generation plants and 20 tonnes of bottled water.

The offer was made in a letter from the Venezuelan ambassador to the United States, Bernardo Alvarez, to the governor of Louisiana, Kathleen Blanco."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/story/0,...1564248,00.html (http://www.guardian.co.uk/katrina/story/0,16441,1564248,00.html)

How much is 1 million barrels of oil? Right now oil is at $61/barrel and was probably a lot higher during Katrina. Huh. That seems like quite a bit coming from a country that isn't super wealthy.

Plus CITGO's $1million donation.

2) Venezuela and America aren't exactly allies
3) Initially, America actually denied Venezuela's aid. Then they denied Cuban aid even though the mess wasn't cleaned up.

Maybe next time, you should do more than a "quick" websearch to avoid looking like a fool?

[JazzRemington]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2006 02:09 pm

[QUOTE=t_wolves_fan,November 28, 2006 10:18 am] My point is that you keep assuming too much.
What did I erroneously assume with regard to the specific phenomenon of rising gas prices this past summer and in recent months?

Because quite frankly, your previous post made no sense.
According to your first post, you're assuming we believe that gas/oil companies collude to jack prices up all the time and/or make up "lunatic conspiracy theories."

[BobKKKindle$]

The Primary Reason that Chavez nationalised the oil resources of Venezuela was not so that the state could offer oil at subsidized prices to the poor, as you seem to be suggesting, rather, it is in order to ensure that the revenue earned from Venezeula's oil reserves is not recieved by American Multinationals, but rather, by the Venezuelean government, thereby eliminating the exploitation of Venezuela's economic resources by American Corporate Imperialists.

With this revenue, the government has provided a wide range of Social Programs that have aided the poorest members of Venezuelan society. Note also that the government, as part of ALBA (A Bolivasian alternative to NAFTA) sold subsidized oil to Cuba in exchange for medical and educational assistance.

[encephalon]

Citgo is a corporate entity within a capitalist system. I fail to see what this has to do with any revolutionary politics.

[pastradamus]

Governments usually put duty on oil and so increase their prices'.

As encephalon said, Citgo is a capitalist organisation. Its not our bidding man.

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2006 08:28 am
With this revenue, the government has provided a wide range of Social Programs that have aided the poorest members of Venezuelan society. Note also that the government, as part of ALBA (A Bolivasian alternative to NAFTA) sold subsidized oil to Cuba in exchange for medical and educational assistance.
Apparently these social services also include subsidizing gasoline for SUVs.

Is it ok simply because it's Chavez doing it?

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2006 08:54 am
Citgo is a corporate entity within a capitalist system. I fail to see what this has to do with any revolutionary politics.
Citgo is owned by the government of Venezuela. Citgo is free to set any price for its gasoline it wants.

If gas companies were gouging us with high prices that led to record profits and they're evil for doing so, why is it ok that Citgo followed along?

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 29, 2006 04:45 pm
Governments usually put duty on oil and so increase their prices'.

I am not aware that the U.S. has a tariff on imported oil or gasoline but even if it does, it is based on volume and not on value. i.e. the tariff would be $1 per barrell regardless of the value of the barrell of oil.

The federal gas tax and most state gas taxes work the same way: they are a set price per gallon, not a rate charged on the value of the oil.

So your comment does not compute.