Fall of Soveit Union

[Rasoolpuri]

What were the causes of fall of soveit union

1-International conspiracy

2- Failure of system

3-Worng philosophy of marxism

4-Stalin's policies

[Whitten]

1 - In a sense, although I wouldnt really say "conspiracy". Most nations werent secrative about their intent to bringd down the USSR.

2 - Yes, the mixed economy implemented in the later soviet union was unable to handle to demands of the proletariat efficiantly.

3 - Most people would argue that by the time the USSR fell it had completly abandoned Marxism.

4 - Not really. The USSR fell long after Stalin, infact its economy increased massivly during the Stalin Era.

[Psy]

While the USSR did plan, they were not based on reality, everyone was cooking the numbers to the point the USSR didn't solve the problem of anarchy between producers, this planning based on fiction caused a drastic drop in quality of output as mangers focused on meeting unrealistic quotas by any means necessary (meaning in their mind 100,000 crappy tractors is better then 10,000 useful tractors).

On top of this you had the USSR sacrificing consumer goods for exports, so while workers in the USSR were well paid they were consuming crap due to bad management and limited resources going towards consumer goods.

As expected the workers eventually stirred but the workers had no class consciousness and worse had a deformed idea (if not outright incorrect) of the ideals of Marxism.

[Rasoolpuri]

Thank you for your kind relplies.I want to ask more .Is there any chance in future for socialism ?Or it was last dream of human beings? which has been destroyed by conpiracy of capitalis countries and perhapes bad adminstration.

[Whitten]

There is indeed a chance. Socialism is gaining popularity throughout latin America, and the Communists have been very successful in Nepal. It was nether a dream, its real socio-economic and political conditions which cause revolutions.

[Severian]

None of the above. It's because the objective conditions didn't allow the building of socialism in an isolated, underdeveloped country.

"Failure of system" is closest - but the system that failed - wasn't socialism.

"As long as capitalism and socialism exist we cannot live in peace; in the end, one or the other will triumph--a funeral dirge will be sung over either the Soviet Republics or over world capitalism." Lenin.

Or: "Our backwardness has put us in the forefront, and we shall perish unless we are capable of holding out until we receive powerful support from workers who have risen in revolt in other countries." - also Lenin.

The only surprising thing is, how long the Soviet Union existed as an isolated country, economically and educationally very underdeveloped at the beginning. But the political power of the workers and peasants fell long before that.

Really, the Soviet Union made some impressive economic advances for its first decades - when the challenge was "brute force" development, increasing the amount of coal, steel, etc., that was mined and manufactured. What it failed to do, economically, was increase the quality of more complex manufactured products. That problem had military implications as well, as weapons became more high-tech.

And from a communist viewpoint, the USSR was a much bigger failure in other respects than economically.

Due to its isolation in the capitalist world, the defeat of revolutions in other countries, the economic backwardness and widespread illiteracy in Russia....a privileged elite arose within the party and state bureaucracy. This was evident from the very beginning, and it gained political power, and unleashed bloody repression against working people, with the rise of Stalin and his successors.

I think that answers the second question too. The collapse of the USSR in no way represents a failure of socalism. The need and possibility of socialist revolution has deep causes which are still present, and will be as long as capitalism exists.

[Vargha Poralli]

Sevarian's post says everything...

additionally the containment policy of US played a major role too. that was biggest of all Stalin's failures. USSR put up more a defensive stance after WW2 which stole the initiative to US in the Cold war. and moreover technologically the developement in the field of IT was also not on par with US. seriously we couldn't expect it to have grown in a regime where owning a photocopier itself a crime....

[Organic Revolution]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2006 01:08 pm
What were the causes of fall of soveit union

1-International conspiracy

2- Failure of system

3-Worng philosophy of marxism

4-Stalin's policies

1-International conspiracy

it most certainly was not some crazy conspiracy by the so-called new world order.


2- Failure of system

yes, this is potentially the best answer, because when you try and continue a state, worker controlled or capitalist controlled, it always will become and overlording entity, which inhernetly carries opression on its coattails.


3-Worng philosophy of marxism

this doesnt make sense. are you talking about the different suffixes? those werent marxism, leninism and stalinism are delapidated forms of capitalism.


4-Stalin's policies

most certainly. his policies were that of war capitalism under the giuse of socialism, which helped no one.

[Janus]

2 is obviously the answer but it entails many factors and reasons into it.

We've had many threads on this topic; here's the latest one.

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...of+Soviet+Union (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=56819&hl=collapse+of+Soviet+Union)

[OneBrickOneVoice]

The USSR fell because of many reasons. Chief among them, its beauracracy and it's lack of democratic centralism led to the nomenklatura.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by [email protected] 26, 2006 06:40 pm
2 is obviously the answer but it entails many factors and reasons into it.

We've had many threads on this topic; here's the latest one.

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php...of+Soviet+Union (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=56819&hl=collapse+of+Soviet+Union)
Janus,

How do you find all those threads?

[RebelDog]

One must remember that even though the USSR was a 'deformed workers state' (I'm aware of the controversy that three words generates, no debate on semantics wanted) it still made enormous strides forward and gave a hint of what is possible. The USSR wasn't communist but imagine what real global communism would be capable of with the capitalist monkey off its back. The USSR was a primitive peasant economy when the revolution took place and 4 decades later it was a world super-power who put the first sattelite and human in space. A remarkable achievement.

[cb9's_unity]

I think the first problem that faced the USSR was that it wasn't economically mature for socialism. Russia was a country just coming out of feudalism and into capitalism when the revolution emerged.
Stalins destruction of any hope of a dictatorship of the proletariat was another downfall of the soviet union.

[sanpal]

Originally posted by [email protected] 25, 2006 07:08 pm
What were the causes of fall of soveit union

1-International conspiracy

2- Failure of system

3-Worng philosophy of marxism

4-Stalin's policies

1-International conspiracy

Without question, the definite pressure to Soviet economy to weaken and destroy it was given by alliance of leading bourgeoisie States


2- Failure of system

Mainly



3-Worng philosophy of marxism

Wrong interpretation of economic aspects of marxism by soviet theorists which provoked point 2


4-Stalin's policies

Stalin (and others soviet leaders) became "hostage" of own wrong interpretation of economy of marxism (see point 3). He (they) was forced to be cruel towards working people who had no economic self-interest and had lost enthusiasm to build communist society.

When I'm looking at revlerf forums I'm becoming sad - many of members take an interest in politics but almost nobody in economics (i.e. creating of working economic mechanism of communist society). If revolution would happen we could see new "stalins".

I'd like to add: comparing the former USSR with modern Russia give me an impression to consider the USSR much more socialist State than today's Russia.

[perdido]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2006 03:16 am

When I'm looking at revlerf forums I'm becoming sad - many of members take an interest in politics but almost nobody in economics (i.e. creating of working economic mechanism of communist society). If revolution would happen we could see new "stalins".

I'd like to add: comparing the former USSR with modern Russia give me an impression to consider the USSR much more socialist State than today's Russia.
Very true, I am extremely ignorant of economics while I expand my political understandings. If you could link me to some information on economics under communism I would greatly appreciate it and maybe more comrades here can learn as well. I recall Che Guevara also had little knowledge of economist when he had his position within the Revolutionary Government of Cuba. He had to find someone to teach him.

[More Fire for the People]

The collapse of the Soviet Union was primarily the result of internal antagonisms. The absolute failure of bureaucratic central planning necessitated the ascendancy of a new group of managers capable of overcoming the obstacles of inefficient production — the wily-eyed bourgeoisie. Of course, the official legal apparatus still operated under the policies of Stalinism.

A contradiction! [Rosa would have a field day with what I’m about to say] The base of society necessitated a restructuring of the legal superstructure. State-capitalism is an unstable system and at some point the real bourgeoisie — the bourgeoisie of 1776, 1789, etc. — has to step in. And who should happen to come along? Gorbachev! Glasnost and perestroika were the Wealth of Nations and the Rights of Man dressed in pseudo-socialist phraseology.