Chavez leads by 33 in latest poll...

[Cheung Mo]

http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/...em/itemID/13905 (http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/index.cfm/fuseaction/viewItem/itemID/13905)

[Whitten]

As far as reformists go, he's my favourite.

[Joby]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2006 06:54 pm
As far as reformists go, he's my favourite.
haha

good point.

Maybe this time he'll become just a little more revolutionary?

[bolshevik butcher]

We must show solidarity with the Venezuelan working class who clearly consciously back Chavez as their candidate. The huge swing to the left in Venezuela recently has clearly generated huge gains for the working class.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

The huge swing to the left in Venezuela recently has clearly generated huge gains for the working class.

What do you mean by "recently", and could you provide some examples?

[Clarksist]

I agree with the awesomely named Bolshevik Butcher, the working class in Venezuela should be supported for voting for the least bourgeois candidate. And on top of that, he actually is creating Leftist change!!!

I really hope Chavez wins because, after all, it isn't like in most "democratic" elections where you want the lesser of two evils, he's actually gonna do some more good.

[Guerrilla22]

It has been pretty much been known for a long time now that Chavez is going to run away with the election. His approval rating is like 87%

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2006 10:01 pm

The huge swing to the left in Venezuela recently has clearly generated huge gains for the working class.

What do you mean by "recently", and could you provide some examples?
The seizing of prime real esate (a gold course in the middle of an upper class areas inCaracass) to build socail housing? Seizing of a coke factory? Increase in workers democracy? They do anyhting for you. These events have the Venezuelan ruling class terrfied.

[Brekisonphilous]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2006 10:29 pm
It has been pretty much been known for a long time now that Chavez is going to run away with the election. His approval rating is like 87%
yep. and is the incumbent.
Should be a shoe in.

[Louis Pio]

Think this interview give som good detail on the situation

US Socialist Appeal Interviews FRETECO Activist Miguel Campos (http://www.marxist.com/miguel-campos-interview231106.htm)

[Karl Marx's Camel]

The seizing of prime real esate (a gold course in the middle of an upper class areas inCaracass) to build socail housing? Seizing of a coke factory? Increase in workers democracy? They do anyhting for you. These events have the Venezuelan ruling class terrfied.
So perhaps the proletariat has gained advantages, even significant and relevant ones. Yes, reform is great for penetrating and weakening the capitalist class, and it has a part in the revolutionary movement. But perhaps we should keep in mind that reform cannot substitute revolutionary actions by the masses?

[Louis Pio]

But perhaps we should keep in mind that reform cannot substitute revolutionary actions by the masses?

But there's plenty of revolutionary actions by the masses, one should be blind to overlook it. Defeating the coup, taking over factories and so on.

Of course a situation like the one in Venezuela can't go on forever, which is why it is extremely important and interesting what will happen after the election.

[Lenin's Law]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2006 10:12 pm
I agree with the awesomely named Bolshevik Butcher, the working class in Venezuela should be supported for voting for the least bourgeois candidate. And on top of that, he actually is creating Leftist change!!!

I really hope Chavez wins because, after all, it isn't like in most "democratic" elections where you want the lesser of two evils, he's actually gonna do some more good.
I agree. When the working class makes a sincere move for progressive, socialist change, no matter how small it should be supported. That doesn't mean we stop trying to create an even more revolutionary situation and stop trying to deepen their revolutionary class consciousness; but lamenting and complaining about why a certain situation is not our own perfect idea of a socialist society is not helpful either. At this point, we stop sounding like we are revolutionaries and a part of the workers movement and start sounding like preachy liberals who always "know better" than those "silly workers" do.

[Dooga Aetrus Blackrazor]

My friend from Venezuela says the elections are rigged and conditions in Venezuela are actually much worse than the media would have you believe.

[bolshevik butcher]

Rigged in favour of Chavez? By who exactly? The reactionary elements in the buearaucracy? The venezuelan ruling class? US imperialism?

By the way I agree with what teis said, of course reoform isn't a substitute for revolutionary action, noone has argued this however in Venezuela I think there have been plenty of revolutionary actions and these reforms are only laying the ground for more.

[piet11111]

Originally posted by [email protected] 24, 2006 06:54 pm
As far as reformists go, he's my favourite.
nicely said.

the revolution wont happen through bourgeois elections.

[Brekisonphilous]

Originally posted by bolshevik [email protected] 25, 2006 11:23 pm
Rigged in favour of Chavez? By who exactly? The reactionary elements in the buearaucracy? The venezuelan ruling class? US imperialism?

By the way I agree with what teis said, of course reoform isn't a substitute for revolutionary action, noone has argued this however in Venezuela I think there have been plenty of revolutionary actions and these reforms are only laying the ground for more.
Actually, Chavez has phony polls made himself, But regardless, he is still ahead.
Even in polls shown by his opponent, Chavez has a significant lead!

:D

[Fawkes]

"If voting accomplished anything, it would be made illegal" - some feminist anarchist

[bolshevik butcher]

Originally posted by Brekisonphilous+November 26, 2006 03:28 am--> (Brekisonphilous @ November 26, 2006 03:28 am)
bolshevik [email protected] 25, 2006 11:23 pm
Rigged in favour of Chavez? By who exactly? The reactionary elements in the buearaucracy? The venezuelan ruling class? US imperialism?

By the way I agree with what teis said, of course reoform isn't a substitute for revolutionary action, noone has argued this however in Venezuela I think there have been plenty of revolutionary actions and these reforms are only laying the ground for more.
Actually, Chavez has phony polls made himself, But regardless, he is still ahead.
Even in polls shown by his opponent, Chavez has a significant lead!

:D [/b]
That's a poll though, I'm reffering to the elections themselves.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

Originally posted by Freedom for [email protected] 26, 2006 03:50 am
"If voting accomplished anything, it would be made illegal" - some feminist anarchist
LOL ya that would be Emma Goldman I think

[bolshevik butcher]

Nice flashy quote but I don't think it's entirley true in practise. Imagine what a set back it would be for the venezuelan workers if Chavez lost the election next week.

[Cheung Mo]

All the money that was being poured into social programs for the Venezuelan people will go to oil barons in Zulia and in corporate America should Rosales win. (And what's creepy is that Rosales and his party claim to be centre-left.)

[Matty_UK]

Expect some bad shit going down in Venezuela after this election, I think. There's been a lot of effort put into the opposition campaign and I think if they lose they're going to completely give up the political road and take to arms instead. And if they somehow win (unlikely) the Venezuelan working class ain't gonna take it. I seriously think there's a civil war brewing in Venezuela. It could be a huge setback, or it could further radicalise the working class of Latin America.