Nice guy the Pope, isn't he?

[tecumseh]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/5389684.stm

[loveme4whoiam]

If it were possible for me to be even more disgusted with the Catholic Church, that article has achieved it.

[Sadena Meti]

I let my legal mind roll over this for awhile, and it is rather interesting. Because the Vatican has extraterritorality (i.e. it's not just a church, it is a country), that is the only thing protecting it from being charged as a criminal organization. By imposing a vow of secrecy on the victim and witnesses, with threat of excommunication, that amounts to intimidation of a witness. If this was a normal church (not a country) based in the US, it could be charged with the same laws used against the mafia.

Interesting, no? I always throught the Vatican should push its extraterritorality to the max and declare all its churches around the world to be embassies, meaning the laws of the country don't apply inside them. That would lead to one hell of a legal nightmare. The loophole of loopholes.

[loveme4whoiam]

Interesting idea rev-stoic, I didn't realise that until you pointed it out. What an odd thought - there are no laws within churches... :mellow: :o ;)

[cb9's_unity]

hmmm... never realized the corruption went to the very top of the catholic ladder. i shouldn't be surprised considering the rape of little boys looks like a misdemeanour compared to what the church did back in the mid-evil days.

[Tupac-Amaru]

man!
You commies aren't much better!!! Look are your beloved Mao...it is widely documented that he was a sick pedophile and that communist party members would offer him their 9 year-old daughters in exchange for political favours!!!

And you don't wana know about Stalin's sexual habits!!!

Before you accuse others, take a look at yourselves and your beloved leaders!

[loveme4whoiam]

Er, perhaps you should look at who you are talking to first off - very few people round here think Mao or Stalin are worth 'beloving'. And we aren't defending what those bastards did - quite the reverse if you read what people have said about this policy of the Church's.

What we object to is a multi-national organisation actively condoning the abuse of children - so perhaps you should have another look at the argument - more to the point, ask yourself why you are defending such a policy <_<

[Johnny Anarcho]

There are good Popes and bad Popes. I liked Pope John Paul II myself. Every government is corrupt so bollocks.

[Comrade J]

Originally posted by rev&#045;[email protected] 20, 2006 12:14 pm
I let my legal mind roll over this for awhile, and it is rather interesting. Because the Vatican has extraterritorality (i.e. it&#39;s not just a church, it is a country), that is the only thing protecting it from being charged as a criminal organization. By imposing a vow of secrecy on the victim and witnesses, with threat of excommunication, that amounts to intimidation of a witness. If this was a normal church (not a country) based in the US, it could be charged with the same laws used against the mafia.

Interesting, no? I always throught the Vatican should push its extraterritorality to the max and declare all its churches around the world to be embassies, meaning the laws of the country don&#39;t apply inside them. That would lead to one hell of a legal nightmare. The loophole of loopholes.
Great in theory, but you simply couldn&#39;t declare all churches as embassies, the nations have to agree with the location of the embassy, and I think there are rules which say you can&#39;t use an embassy to convert the people of the nation to your particular political or religious beliefs.

[The Bitter Hippy]

also you&#39;d need to ID every person entering the church, and all priests would have to be born in the vatican or have vatican city citizenship. You can&#39;t have a foreign ambassador, can you?

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Johnny [email protected] 26, 2006 09:19 am
There are good Popes and bad Popes. I liked Pope John Paul II myself. Every government is corrupt so bollocks.
That&#39;s like saying there are &#39;good&#39; cancers and &#39;bad&#39; cancers :unsure:

[Comrade J]

Originally posted by Black Dagger+November 26, 2006 12:07 pm--> (Black Dagger @ November 26, 2006 12:07 pm)
Johnny [email protected] 26, 2006 09:19 am
There are good Popes and bad Popes. I liked Pope John Paul II myself. Every government is corrupt so bollocks.
That&#39;s like saying there are &#39;good&#39; cancers and &#39;bad&#39; cancers :unsure: [/b]
I agree, I believe you could say there are &#39;very bad Popes&#39; and &#39;slightly less worse Popes&#39; but to go as far as to claim a Pope is good is too far.
The way I see it, the term &#39;Pope&#39; means he is an intrinsically despicable person, and from their you determine to what degree this is so. They are always pro-life, against gay rights and women&#39;s rights and even have procedures to cover up cases of child abuse, and I doubt there is going to be any serious reform any time soon.

[Karl Marx's Camel]

Look are your beloved Mao...it is widely documented that he was a sick pedophile and that communist party members would offer him their 9 year-old daughters in exchange for political favours&#33;&#33;&#33;


That&#39;s the problem with your views. You talk about the Soviet Union and China. I&#39;d bet you were a Soviet fan back in the days when you were a.. "commie".

You talk about child abuse but yourself support a system that kills 30,000 kids each day.

[The-Spark]

Originally posted by rev&#045;[email protected] 20, 2006 12:14 pm
it could be charged with the same laws used against the mafia.


What laws are used against the mafia? Their rich, so justice can never touch them in this system.

[Dean]

Originally posted by [email protected] 20, 2006 05:33 am
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/panorama/5389684.stm
"The Catholic church has been good to me"
-My girlfriend&#39;s dad&#39;s justification for anything the catholic church does.

Some people don&#39;t get the most basic of concepts.

[RHIZOMES]

Originally posted by Johnny [email protected] 25, 2006 11:19 pm
There are good Popes and bad Popes. I liked Pope John Paul II myself. Every government is corrupt so bollocks.
Wasn&#39;t Pope John Paul II anti-communist?

[thescarface1989]

Sex Crimes And The Vatican (Documentary) (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3816183295028801019&q=sex+crimes+vatican&total=118&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=9)

[LSD]

Yeah, the Catholic Church sucks. The Catholic Church has always sucked.

This might be news for the readers of the BBC, it sure as hell ain&#39;t news to this crowd.


man&#33;
You commies aren&#39;t much better&#33;&#33;&#33; Look are your beloved Mao...it is widely documented that he was a sick pedophile and that communist party members would offer him their 9 year-old daughters in exchange for political favours&#33;&#33;&#33;

Alright, I&#39;ll bite, let&#39;s see some of this "documentation".

Believe me, I&#39;m no fan of the old "chairman", but I&#39;m always skepticle when anyone start going off about "well documented facts" about people "selling their children".

Nine times out of ten, it&#39;s utter sensationalist bullshit.

It&#39;s certainly a favourite of the right, though, isn&#39;t it? A few years back, Silvio "corrupt as shit" Berlusconi, trying to distract from the fact that he owned virtually every television station in the country made the rather shocking contention that Communists "boiled babies".

Again, he pointed to Mao and the PRC. I suppose they make such a good target &#39;cause after murdering a couple dozen million people, folks will just about believe them capable of anything.

But just as Mao almost certainly never "boiled [a] baby", I&#39;m willing to bet good many that he never offered "political favours" in exchange for underage child sex-slaves.

But hey, I&#39;ve been wrong before... I await your "documentatation"&#33;


And you don&#39;t wana know about Stalin&#39;s sexual habits&#33;&#33;&#33;

I&#39;m sure I don&#39;t&#33;

I certainly don&#39;t want to know about his outrageous sexual legistlation. The man was such a lunatic that he even criminalized homosexuality&#33;

Could you imagine such a thing? discrimination against an entire sexual orientation like that? Good thing that no capitalist country would consider doing such a thing... <_<


Before you accuse others, take a look at yourselves and your beloved leaders&#33;

Sorry to disapoint you, but I&#39;ve never loved a "leader" in my life, to be honest I don&#39;t think I&#39;ve ever even liked one.

Neither, I don&#39;t think, has anyone else in this thread indicated an affinity for either of the gentlement you mentioned above.

Not to discourage you from making baseless ad hominem attacks, of course, clearly it&#39;s all your capable of; I just thought you might like to know the reality of the situation.