soviet union's nuclear weopens - how did they get them?

[lostsoul]

How did the soviet union get nuclear weapons?
did they steal it? or did they produce it themselfs?

If they produced it themselfs, how did they get the sciencist to work on it. By incentitive(money)? force? or just made them feel like they are helping the country?


sorry for the weird question, its just to help me understand how socialism advances technology.

thanks in advance

p.s. sorry i just relized i spelled weapons wrong in the subject :-(

(Edited by lostsoul at 2:47 am on April 29, 2003)

[chamo]

They made the weapons themselves, but they would have got the plans by stealing through sypathiser spies who held high up ranks in British intelligence. Klaus Fuchs was a German physicist who fled the Nazis in 1933 and settled in Britain. He took part in top-secret development of the atom bomb, during which time he passed technical information to a Soviet agent. Then they would have been able to make their own bombs and they tested them in Kazakhstan.

From what I gather from films, so it's not very reliable, ;)the really intelligent Russian scientist would have been doing their part to help the country.

[lostsoul]

Quote: from happyguy on 4:52 pm on April 29, 2003
From what I gather from films, so it's not very reliable, ;)the really intelligent Russian scientist would have been doing their part to help the country.

russia's are pretty good and gaurding their secrets but back then was the main motivating factor, helping the country or money?

i just find it odd, that a scienest goes to school for many years and then works simply for the good of the country. Most sciencest do it purely for the profit, and very little for the cause.(thats just my observations tho).

[chamo]

Well there was no profit to be made for scientist in the Soviet Union, so I would say it was for the good of the motherland or if they were forced to do the work.

[Umoja]

Propaganda about the Capitalist having the technology could have been incentive.

[chamo]

The whole Cold War, from the beginning was a huge arms and space race.

And the Soviets definetly did better in the Space Race, first satellite, first rocket, first man, first orbit and first dog (deceased)

[lostsoul]

thanks for all your replies...this has been a question i have been wondering about for a long time.

Basically then Russia is an example of that money does not have to be a motivating factor in scentic progress.

[Iepilei]

they were probably sheltered and fed by the state, being such a vital asset and all...

what's the perks of being a highly paid scientist anyways? it's not like you've much time dedicated to enjoying it...

[Ian]

being a prominent scientist doesn't often bring you money, if scientists were in it for the money they would have become chemists and manufactured illicit drugs...

[Uhuru na Umoja]

Actually God gave them the weapons. Since he had already given the Holy Hand Granage to King Arthur, he had to give them the Holy ICBMs.

Honestly... how do you think most state get nuclear weapons? They developed them and were the second country to have them by 1949 (following the Blockade).

[lostsoul]

Quote: from Uhuru na Umoja on 9:42 am on May 2, 2003
Actually God gave them the weapons. Since he had already given the Holy Hand Granage to King Arthur, he had to give them the Holy ICBMs.

Honestly... how do you think most state get nuclear weapons? They developed them and were the second country to have them by 1949 (following the Blockade).

read the question, i asked how they delevoped them.

[Uhuru na Umoja]

It still is not a terribly sensible question. If you are questioning what incentives scientists had to do their work, then you might as well also ask why anyone was willing to be a farmer or sweep the streets. Inevitably it is a matter of personal motivation that may derive from money, prestige, patriotism, or coercion.

[chamo]

The Soviet weapons program proper began in 1943 during World War II, under the leadership of physicist Igor Vasilievich Kurchatov. The program was initiated by reports collected by Soviet intelligence about the rapidly growing Manhattan Project in the U.S. It remained largely an intelligence operation until the end of the war, but it was a highly successful one, due to sympathies of many for the wartime Soviet Union fighting Nazi Germany; the socialist political sympathies of some; and the weak security screening program necessitated by the hasty assembly of the vast program. Klaus Fuchs, an important physicist at Los Alamos, was by far the most valuable contributor of atomic information.

For goodness sake here is some Internet addresses:
http://nuketesting.enviroweb.org/hew/Russia/
http://www.fas.org/spp/starwars/crs/91-144.htm#summ
http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/notiz2.htm

[lostsoul]

Quote: from Uhuru na Umoja on 2:30 pm on May 3, 2003
It still is not a terribly sensible question. If you are questioning what incentives scientists had to do their work, then you might as well also ask why anyone was willing to be a farmer or sweep the streets. Inevitably it is a matter of personal motivation that may derive from money, prestige, patriotism, or coercion.


people who farm or sweep the streets usually have no option to leave, maybe because no one will accept them or they can't afford it. I just was wondering the motivation for someone who spends many many years studying, can afford and is accepted in other places in the world, and can make more money else-where.

thanks to everyone who responded, i get it now :-)

[immortal211]

soviets were the best at anything invloving the mind, thats why other nations looked up to them for almost everything.

[lostsoul]

Quote: from immortal211 on 2:57 am on May 4, 2003
soviets were the best at anything invloving the mind, thats why other nations looked up to them for almost everything.

intelligence has nothing to do with nations. I used to think that, but China, America, Canada, Cuba, and every nation in the world has had its share of great minds. Some did good in accient times, and some in modern times, but each nation still has its share of intellactuals.

[Revolution67]

*****

[Guerrilla22]

Their scientist developed them based on US technical information, which the Rosenberg's supposedly passed on, however evidence has shown that they most likely were not respopnsible because they did not have the technical expertise to describe to the Soviets how to make a nuclear bomb.

[ComradeOm]

I assume that whatever material the Germans possessed also passed into Russian hands. Its been suggested that one reason that Stalin was so desperate to get his hands on Berlin was due to a nuclear lab on the outskirts of the city. Indeed I believe that within hours of the frontline troops capturing that site special intelligence teams were already dismantling the lab for transport back to Russia.

[Led Zeppelin]

Source please.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by Marxism-[email protected] 11 2005, 11:54 PM
Source please.
You don't trust me ;)

I usually never have sources but you're in luck this time. Taken from Berlin: The Downfall (pg324/325) by Antony Beevor who in turn cites some Thiessen and Bewilogua. It was the Kaiser-Wilhelm Institute at Berlin-Dahlem and it was two days before the NKVD had secured the site. Apologies for that minor error.

Apart from the scientists, it seems Beria was after the uranium, from which the Soviets were suffering a shortage of at the time, of which they got "250kg of metallic uranium, three tons of uranium oxide; twenty litres of heavy water". The effort was personally supervised by one General Khrulev - head of rear area operations for the entire Red Army.

[Led Zeppelin]

That's a crappy source, but at least it is one.

It has nothing to do with "trust", I like to know if someone is pulling something out of their ass or not.

[ComradeOm]

Like I said Beevor cites some Thiessen and Bewilogua, followed by a whole load of letters and numbers which I can only assume is some archive code. Personally I have no idea what " AGMPG II. Abt., Rep. 1A, A2. IA 9/-Havemann" means but its there if you have use for it.