Marx & "the future state in communist society"

[AlwaysAnarchy]

This is an interesting quote I found from Karl Marx talking about "the future state in communist society"!!

Could this mean that Marx himself still envisioned a "state" under communism?? This probably gives credence to the Stalininst POV of Marx, which if true, would further alienate from him. Many of my anarchist friends use this quote to further criticize Marx as he was vague and unclear about how a "communist society" would really look, and this gave to interpretations by authoritarians like Lenin, Stalin and company and we all know how that ended up.

Here is the full quote and here is the link to the full article from Marx:


Originally posted by Marx
Now the program does not deal with this nor with the future state of communist society

http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works.../gotha/ch04.htm (http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/gotha/ch04.htm)

[Leo]

This is an interesting quote I found from Karl Marx talking about "the future state in communist society"!!


Now the program does not deal with this nor with the future state of communist society

This quote does not talk about the state in communist society, it is talking about the state of communist society. This makes me feel that I need to give a link to a dictionary page to inform you on what the word "state" actually means:


Originally posted by Dictionary
–noun
1. the condition of a person or thing, as with respect to circumstances or attributes: a state of health.
2. the condition of matter with respect to structure, form, constitution, phase, or the like: water in a gaseous state.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/state

I hope this wasn't too hard for you to understand.

[Labor Shall Rule]

Nice try!

[Aurora]

Tell me PA,have you ever read any marx or lenin?

[AlwaysAnarchy]

Leo and company, I may have taken the Marx quote from the wrong source. Here is again quoted from Lenin in State and Revolution:


Originally posted by Lenin
Engels suggested to Bebel that all chatter about the state be dropped altogether, that the word “state” be eliminated from the programme altogether and the word “community” substituted for it. Engels even declared that the Commune was long a state in the proper sense of the word. Yet Marx even spoke of the "future state in communist society", i.e., he would seem to recognize the need for the state even under communism.

Does anyone know where Lenin quoted Marx from here?

[Leo]

Leo and company, I may have taken the Marx quote from the wrong source.

It is from a right source, it is just talking about something entirely different.

As for the Lenin quote, you have to quote it completely;


Engels suggested to Bebel that all chatter about the state be dropped altogether, that the word “state” be eliminated from the programme altogether and the word “community” substituted for it. Engels even declared that the Commune was long a state in the proper sense of the word. Yet Marx even spoke of the "future state in communist society", i.e., he would seem to recognize the need for the state even under communism. But such a view would be fundamentally wrong. A closer examination shows that Marx's and Engels' views on the state and its withering away were completely identical, and that Marx's expression quoted above refers to the state in the process of withering away.

Marx regarded Dictatorship of the Proletariat as the first stage of communism, but still it was communism. Working Class organizes itself into communes and dictates its power through workers councils, which can be described as a state during that period, authoritarian towards the bourgeoisie and libertarian towards the proletariat. It would be a hard shot to fit communes & councils in the category of a state as it is completely controlled by the working class, but it would function as a mechanism of suppression towards capitalists, therefore technically the political apparatus of the ruling class, the proletariat.

[AlwaysAnarchy]

Thanks Leo :)

[ern]

Hi

Peaceful Anarchist you may find the following articles give a general answer to your questions;
what is communism (http://en.internationalism.org/pamphlets/classconc/1_communism)
the nature of communism (http://en.internationalism.org/pamphlets/classconc/1_communism/nature)
the communist revolution (http://en.internationalism.org/pamphlets/classconc/1_communism/commrevn)
I think you will find them very interesting. It will be interesting to hear your thoughts about them.

[Marukusu]

It's one thing if you disagree with Marx' ideas and the theory of marxism and have good reasons to do it, but if you are trying to discredit him for his spelling and/or use of language it's just pathetic. That quote can also be a misquote, since Marx' mother tongue was german rather than english (...and as previously stated, Marx is talking about the state of communism and not the communist state, which is a paradox).

You are not even trying.