A Revolutionary Idea

[fashbash]

Right, I know I'm new to the site but I have an idea to raise the profile of the left in the UK, and in doing so dispel many myths about Communism and Socialism, and the far-right.

Since the leftist parties of the UK have little national exposure at the moment, I think DIY campaigning is in order, and this can be achieved easily in four ways:

1) Taking BurnTheOliveTree's idea, we use Myspace or something similar to create a website promoting Socialism in laymans terms, presenting Socialism in a way that is easy to understand at a glance and capable of being understood by people with no clue about politics at all. Using the Myspace or similar format, we can expose our beliefs to a huge number of people.

2) By each of us writing to our local newspapers, we can present a leftist view and relate it to local issues. We all know people who think the world ends beyond their street, so if the left can present solutions to local problems we can again achieve support

3) Together, we can re-write the Communist Manifesto for our time. Make it readable, make it easy to dip into. Lets together produce some Socialist Literature that people actually want to read.

And finally 4) Use each of the above methods to make people aware of just what the BNP are about. Forget playing the old 'they're rascist' card, the sad fact of the matter is, some people just don't care if they are rascist. Let's tell people what oppression the working class would face under a far-right government.

Together, we can do all of these things, and at the very least we can put Socialism back on the British political agenda. At best we can make the Socialist partys of this country electable again! I need ideas, I need suggestions, I need your help Comrades!

[Forward Union]

I think all your ideas are childish, and display a general lack of invovement or even understanding of the current political climate.

Sorry to be horribly blunt, but this idea of "internet campaigns" and "re-writing communism" is crap. It has absolutely no direct relation to the class struggle in the here and now.

The NHS is in danger, a lot of companies are laying off workers to move their factories abroad, the government wants to categorise activists with terrorists and is introducing a tyrannical database and surveillance system that will follow you every second of your day, capitalist businesses are polluting and destroying our working class communities disseising our family and friends, our governments are massacring people in wars around the world, and at the current rate we'll be swimming to work in 20 years, and all you have come up with as a response to that is rewrite the fucking manifesto and start a myspace. It's ideas like that that have put us in the fucking gutter.

What we should be doing is organising local resistance to these continuously and minimally resisted attacks on our class, which are happening all the time. We need to start saving our own asses, we need to stop the ID card scheme, we need to stop the workplace closures, we need to stop environmental destruction and the pollution of our communities, we need to stop the obliteration of our personal freedoms, and ultimately take matters into our own hands. People actually give a shit, people don't like their conditions and if they see a practical organised solution, they will support it - they will overthrow their boss and run their own factory, if they think they'll get away with it. We must offer that practical working-class solution, not some fucking myspace site and a newspaper add.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Good idea...i like the newspaper idea. Also what about poster campaings, but for all this we need publicity, so a demonstration of some sort is needed to get publicity, a march of some sort maybe? and who would write the uptaded communist manifesto?
Good idea comrade

[blueeyedboy]

You have an excellant idea there pal. What part of England are you from, because I'm from Doncaster.

To raise the profile of the left in the UK, you would have to make some sort of propaganda that could reach a lot of people. Like you said, a pamphlet with the basics of socialism put through people's letterboxes would be a good idea. Also, you could arrange a meeting for leftists in your local newspaper somewhere to discuss more ideas. The meeting could even be held in your house if you can't find anywhere to hold it. I'm sure there are plenty of leftists out there, it's just finding them and building them into a cohesive force that is the problem. I'm from a defenite working class area so I'm in.

[fashbash]

Cheers Blueeyedboy and Jac_Bastian. Love Underground, your comments are less than useless.

Well what do you suggest. Wthout wishing to offend any active left-wing party members, the British left has all but collapsed. In the past five years, the Socialist Party of Great Britain, the SWP and other parties like them have achieved nothing, while at the same time the BNP are gaining more and more support every day.

You talk of the class struggle, but we are never going to overcome any class struggle by sitting down and letting the BNP take the floor. We need to improve the reputation of the left and throw off the legacy Stalin has left us. We can only do this by educating the masses as to our cause and their place within it. We need to recruit, we need to inform.


The NHS is in danger, a lot of companies are laying off workers to move their factories abroad, the government wants to categorise activists with terrorists and is introducing a tyrannical database and surveillance system that will follow you every second of your day, capitalist businesses are polluting and destroying our working class communities disseising our family and friends, our governments are massacring people in wars around the world, and at the current rate we'll be swimming to work in 20 years,

All good points, although I am sceptical of global warming, but the fact is this: the British people are currently in most danger not from Terrorists which frankly don't exist, or Tony Blair with his surviellence and imaginary terrorists but from themselves. Blair can only continue to wreck the NHS, companies can only ontinue to move their premises abroad and poison the water if the working class let them, and they will let them unless we tell the masses why they shouldn't.

Blueeyedboy and Jac_Bastian, I'll reply to you in a mo, just nippin out for lunch.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2006 12:22 pm
You talk of the class struggle, but we are never going to overcome any class struggle by sitting down and letting the BNP take the floor.

Which is essentially what you have proposed. the BNP seem to offer the solutions to the working classes problems. They offer to actually physically fix these problems if we put them into power, they don't just go on about how great their ideology is. And so some people, go for that option.

This idea you have of educating the masses is horrifically classist and bigoted. You have an incredibly arrogant view of people, as these bumbling lemmings that need a solid understanding of marxism to save them from the nasty bnp monster!

I'll say it again, going around treating people as inferior specimens that need to be educated, preaching (and I mean preaching) about the glory of socialism without directly showing any practical solutions to the specific problems of the community, will leave you alienated, and looking like a fucking moron. You're basically going to have as much credibility as the preachers that say, if only you trust in Jesus (socialism) your problems will be solved.

You need to put down your copy of Das Capital and leave the ideological rhetoric aside, people are as much disgusted by the tyrannical legacy of people like Trotsky, as they are of Stalin, understand that not everyone has a degree in marxist economics, or appreciation for the ideological implications of communism. Roll your sleeves up and save yourselves and your communities.

Revolutionary action means working class resistance to capitalism, not furthering the cause of some 19th century rehashed ideology, as you propose. It is this detached ideological superiority complex that has totally removed us from reality.


ll good points, although I am sceptical of global warming, but the fact is this: the British people are currently in most danger not from Terrorists which frankly don't exist, or Tony Blair with his surviellence and imaginary terrorists but from themselves

No we're in most danger from two real groups, our class enemies, people like the BNP, and the boss class, and idiots like you, ideological dinosaur-crusaders that offer stupid, abstract, and suicidal solutions like making myspace accounts and telling people that everything's their fault. This absolutely idiotic course of action, only serves to alienate people, and totally wreck local organic working class opposition to capitalism because to you, the only opposition to capitalism can be a group of people that follow a certain party-line.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Ok love underground what do u think the solution is??? We cant start a revolution without support

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2006 12:44 pm
Ok love underground what do u think the solution is??? We cant start a revolution without support
Well, I covered briefly some ways I think we can build local movements, here (http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=58682) It's a shame this discussion hasn't picked up much really, there was a lot of sence in it.

[ComradeR]

Good ideas comrade we have to start getting the word out somehow, and at lest it's doing something other then sitting around *****ing, doing nothing and allowing the right-wingers to continue getting more power.

[fashbash]

Love Underground, I accept your point that what I have said may be construed as
classist and bigoted buit you are missing the point. This is a website for marxists, and therefore I assumed people would understand Marxist terms. I am refering to a False Consciousness shared unfourtunately by the majority of the population. It's true to say that most people in the UK, and it's an increasing number, know very little about politics and very very little about political ideologies. Furthermore, few people actually care! Low voter turnout reflects this.

When I talk of educating the masses, I do not claim to be preacher-like, what I in fact mean is to tell people that there is an alternative to Capitalism. What about all those people that don't know about Socialism, not because, as you assume I mean to say, they are stupid or uneducted in a broader sense, but because they do not have the time or wherewithal to look into these things. The working class of this country are called the working class because they work and sometimes that means having more than one job. Why are tabloid newspapers popular with the working classes? Because the working classes have time to read them, because they are presented in a way that can be glanced at, rather than broadsheets which do have to be concentrated on, favoured by the middle classes who have the time.

My motives for suggestion the origional point were on the lines of telling people who dont already know, that there is an alternative to capitalism. You talk of actually doing things, well when the workers parties get off their backsides, stop giving up hope and do something, then we can have a real impact. But now, right now, we need to build up support. Support we just don't have. I am talking of making the Socialists a majorty, not a minority the so-called 'looney left'.

[fashbash]

Thank you for your support ComradeR, Jac_Bastian and Blueeyedboy. Let's start work on this asafp.

Blueyedboy, thanks for your suggestions. It would be difficult for me to organise such a meeting, since I live in a safe Tory seat (to my great shame), in fact our MP is Edward Leigh, who if you haven't heard of him is from the raving, foaming at the mouth, red-faced camp within the Tory party. So support is limited here. Having said that, I might be able to get some friends together.
I'm not too far from Doncaster, I live in Market Rasen, near Lincoln. It's in the Gainsborough and Lea ward if you're interested.

Jac_Bastian, your support is indispensible, thank you. But marches happen every week, some leftist group is marching for some cause or other. Obviously these marches are vital and a defiant show of public opinion, but I am specifically talking about something we, the members of this forum, could do together. Together we could create a website, together we could re-write the CM, as you suggested in a consice pamphlet form. Can I have your help in this?

And ComradeR, you have made my point in a much more succinct way than I could! Thank You

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Any ideas on a logo kind of thing? It would have to be non-aligned i.e not pro china or russia etc. would it contain an A? we would get anarchists support then but a lot of people think anarchism is chaos, we need to put that myth to bed, hammer and sickle may makes people think USSR and then Stalin? a star is fairly safe

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 18, 2006 01:13 pm
It's true to say that most people in the UK, and it's an increasing number, know very little about politics and very very little about political ideologies.
So what? You don't need people to know much about politics, to want to fight against the establishment. Conditions for working people are crap, and getting worse, you don't need an understanding of any political philosophy to come to the natural conclusion that these conditions are unfair, and need to be made better. I can tell you from experience, that you seem not to have, that this is true.

This idea you have, that you're either a communist or apathetic, is testament to how clearly detached you are from working people. I have organised community resistance to some extent, and I cant tell you that for a working class victory to be attained the participants do not have to agree with you. If your goal is to convert people, not to make your economic conditions better, then you're a joke of a revolutionary, your efforts will simply be wasted, you might as well go home.


Furthermore, few people actually care! Low voter turnout reflects this.

On the contrary I would say this is an incredibly positive statistic. It shows that people are increasingly coming to realise that change doesn't come from the ballot box, and that only they have the power to determine their own lives. Putting your fate in the hands of a few is always dangerous. I don't vote, and consider people that do to be completely oblivious to the implications of their actions. We really should be encouraging voter apathy, voting validates party rule.


what I in fact mean is to tell people that there is an alternative to Capitalism.

But this tactic is absolutely useless on its own. Really, don't waste the ink. There are thousands and thousands of brief summaries of socialist and anarchist thought all over the net, in social centres and sold on the streets in most towns. It hasn't made a dent in social conciousness

What you are proposing, is more of what hasn't worked for the past 20 years.

What has had some impact is actual action, things like resistance to environmentally damaging or polluting companies, state surveillance, factory closures etc, have radicalised ordinary working people. If they're getting screwed over, and we organise a meeting, propose solutions, and set everything up democratically, so the community can fix it's own problems, our politics gain credibility notoriety, and we enter into battles, that we can potentially win.


But now, right now, we need to build up support. Support we just don't have. I am talking of making the Socialists a majority, not a minority the so-called 'looney left'.

And your tactics are exactly what have isolated us and wasted so much of our cash on printing papers over the past few decades. Telling people they are to blame, and they can&#39;t fix their own problems is not going to make socialists the majority, especially not coming from you or your myspace account. Telling people to wait for the <s>lord jesus christ</s> Socialist Party to save them from the shit they&#39;re in is a concept that should have been buried the day the Bolsheviks took power and massacred the organised working class.

It&#39;s about time we built on our successes and admitted our failures, and that means organising to fix our own problems in our own communities.

[black magick hustla]

LU.

Sure, you do not need a very SOLD marxist base to be a revolutionary, but, people should know atleast why the destruction of society is in there interests.

This is our role, our role is just merely informing how destroying society is in their interests. This is not implying that we are superior, some people are good at writing, others are good at cooking, others have good leadership skills, and we, we know the solution. One thing is offering the tools to the proletariat, and the other thing, is forming a vanguard party with us at the front.

The solution is praxis and theory. Communists should join other grassroot organizations and offer radical solutions while being involved in already existing struggles. You just don&#39;t form an "anarchist federation" and separate from anything else already constructed-

[Forward Union]

This is our role, our role is just merely informing

No, our goal is to engage capitalism and stop it wrecking our lives. I think ideas like "Hey lets talk at people again and again and again until they all become revolutionary socialists and all follow the glorious vanguard to victory" are absolutely useless and counter productive to our fight against capitalism. We&#39;re getting totally fucked by the ruling class, and all we&#39;re talking about is making some crackpot ideology better known on myspace, and making a "Street CM". What the fuck has happened to the revolutionary left? are we scared of action all of a sudden?, I bet all your communities are being victimised by large corporations right now, go look through your local paper and tell me if everything in it is fine with you.

Get up off your asses and form a local resistance, it&#39;s not hard. Just don&#39;t ram ideology down peoples necks, having said that, maybe you&#39;d do better to find out for yourself, waste 10 years of your life selling papers and giving out leaflets until you either burn-out and leave politics altogether, (which I&#39;ve known far to many dedicated and decent people to do) Or finally get involved in direct action. What you&#39;re suggesting now hasn&#39;t got us anywhere for decades.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

L.U
So instead of just telling the people what they have done wrong and why they should be socialist we should present the argument against capitalism and show them that under capitalism they(workers) will remain poor as the rich get richer. And then show that under socialism they would work and be rewarded for it???
Thus geting them to support themselves not us, as the workers are the most important people in a socialist society?????????????????? Is this what your trying to say?
But how would we reach the people?

[RNK]

"3) Together, we can re-write the Communist Manifesto for our time."

Dude, if you have any sense in you, you will run far, far away from this idea. Just try to imagine the divisional chaos that would ensue. The manifesto and the spirit of the Communist movement is already splintered enough based on perspectives of it. Trying to re-write it is going to bring catastrophy upon you.

[OkaCrisis]

edited.

[Whitten]

Love Underground, when did you become a Focoist?

You cant launch a resistance against capitalism until we have a significant portion of the working class behind us.

[loveme4whoiam]

So instead of just telling the people what they have done wrong and why they should be socialist we should present the argument against capitalism and show them that under capitalism they(workers) will remain poor as the rich get richer. And then show that under socialism they would work and be rewarded for it???
Yes&#33; Why are you opposed to this approach? It is the approach that will win the most people over - telling people that they have been idiots will make a large proportion of people go on the defensive, and then you have lost all chance of convincing them differently.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 01:12 pm
Love Underground, when did you become a Focoist?

You cant launch a resistance against capitalism until we have a significant portion of the working class behind us.
Who is this "us"? And what do you mean when the working class are behind us?

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 19, 2006 12:02 pm
So instead of just telling the people what they have done wrong and why they should be socialist we should present the argument against capitalism and show them that under capitalism they(workers) will remain poor as the rich get richer. And then show that under socialism they would work and be rewarded for it???

No.

We get shit done. I don&#39;t think I can put it any simpler than that.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 12:38 pm

So instead of just telling the people what they have done wrong and why they should be socialist we should present the argument against capitalism and show them that under capitalism they(workers) will remain poor as the rich get richer. And then show that under socialism they would work and be rewarded for it???
Yes&#33; Why are you opposed to this approach? It is the approach that will win the most people over - telling people that they have been idiots will make a large proportion of people go on the defensive, and then you have lost all chance of convincing them differently.
I am not opposed to it. I was just checking if i percived it correctley.

[loveme4whoiam]

Ah. The abundance of question marks led me to believe you were making that question in a rhetorical, "that&#39;s stupid" sense.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

No worries&#33;

[freakazoid]

Love Underground, why do you keep on saying that they are calling the working people stupid? You can&#39;t have support from the people if they don&#39;t know what they are supporitng.

[Forward Union]

Love Underground, why do you keep on saying that they are calling the working people stupid?

Because his comments were incredibly bigoted and anti-working class. I am of course referring to "the British people are currently in most danger not from Terrorists which frankly don&#39;t exist, or Tony Blair with his surviellence and imaginary terrorists but from themselves"


You can&#39;t have support from the people if they don&#39;t know what they are supporitng.

To an extent I agree. But this fails to address my criticisms.