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AlwaysAnarchy
14th November 2006, 18:26
Read. Enligten. Discuss. Grow. Learn. :)


A Liberal's Pledge to Disheartened Conservatives

November 14th, 2006

To My Conservative Brothers and Sisters,

I know you are dismayed and disheartened at the results of last week's election. You're worried that the country is heading toward a very bad place you don't want it to go. Your 12-year Republican Revolution has ended with so much yet to do, so many promises left unfulfilled. You are in a funk, and I understand.

Well, cheer up, my friends! Do not despair. I have good news for you. I, and the millions of others who are now in charge with our Democratic Congress, have a pledge we would like to make to you, a list of promises that we offer you because we value you as our fellow Americans. You deserve to know what we plan to do with our newfound power -- and, to be specific, what we will do to you and for you.

Thus, here is our Liberal's Pledge to Disheartened Conservatives:

Dear Conservatives and Republicans,

I, and my fellow signatories, hereby make these promises to you:

1. We will always respect you for your conservative beliefs. We will never, ever, call you "unpatriotic" simply because you disagree with us. In fact, we encourage you to dissent and disagree with us.

2. We will let you marry whomever you want, even when some of us consider your behavior to be "different" or "immoral." Who you marry is none of our business. Love and be in love -- it's a wonderful gift.

3. We will not spend your grandchildren's money on our personal whims or to enrich our friends. It's your checkbook, too, and we will balance it for you.

4. When we soon bring our sons and daughters home from Iraq, we will bring your sons and daughters home, too. They deserve to live. We promise never to send your kids off to war based on either a mistake or a lie.

5. When we make America the last Western democracy to have universal health coverage, and all Americans are able to get help when they fall ill, we promise that you, too, will be able to see a doctor, regardless of your ability to pay. And when stem cell research delivers treatments and cures for diseases that affect you and your loved ones, we'll make sure those advances are available to you and your family, too.

6. Even though you have opposed environmental regulation, when we clean up our air and water, we, the Democratic majority, will let you, too, breathe the cleaner air and drink the purer water.

7. Should a mass murderer ever kill 3,000 people on our soil, we will devote every single resource to tracking him down and bringing him to justice. Immediately. We will protect you.

8. We will never stick our nose in your bedroom or your womb. What you do there as consenting adults is your business. We will continue to count your age from the moment you were born, not the moment you were conceived.

9. We will not take away your hunting guns. If you need an automatic weapon or a handgun to kill a bird or a deer, then you really aren't much of a hunter and you should, perhaps, pick up another sport. We will make our streets and schools as free as we can from these weapons and we will protect your children just as we would protect ours.

10. When we raise the minimum wage, we will pay you -- and your employees -- that new wage, too. When women are finally paid what men make, we will pay conservative women that wage, too.

11. We will respect your religious beliefs, even when you don't put those beliefs into practice. In fact, we will actively seek to promote your most radical religious beliefs ("Blessed are the poor," "Blessed are the peacemakers," "Love your enemies," "It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God," and "Whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me."). We will let people in other countries know that God doesn't just bless America, he blesses everyone. We will discourage religious intolerance and fanaticism -- starting with the fanaticism here at home, thus setting a good example for the rest of the world.

12. We will not tolerate politicians who are corrupt and who are bought and paid for by the rich. We will go after any elected leader who puts him or herself ahead of the people. And we promise you we will go after the corrupt politicians on our side FIRST. If we fail to do this, we need you to call us on it. Simply because we are in power does not give us the right to turn our heads the other way when our party goes astray. Please perform this important duty as the loyal opposition.

I promise all of the above to you because this is your country, too. You are every bit as American as we are. We are all in this together. We sink or swim as one. Thank you for your years of service to this country and for giving us the opportunity to see if we can make things a bit better for our 300 million fellow Americans -- and for the rest of the world.

Signed,

Michael Moore
[email protected]
(Click here to sign the pledge)
www.michaelmoore.com

P.S. Please feel free to pass this on.

Rollo
14th November 2006, 18:27
And? Moore is a douchebag.

AlwaysAnarchy
14th November 2006, 18:27
Say it.

t_wolves_fan
14th November 2006, 18:33
Eh, what the heck:


1. We will always respect you for your conservative beliefs. We will never, ever, call you "unpatriotic" simply because you disagree with us. In fact, we encourage you to dissent and disagree with us.

I presume that means you'll also refrain from the liberal arguing tactic which up to now has involved calling conservatives racists, sexists, bigots who hate the poor and the elderly because they dare question whether government can really cure every social ill.

We shall see.


2. We will let you marry whomever you want, even when some of us consider your behavior to be "different" or "immoral." Who you marry is none of our business. Love and be in love -- it's a wonderful gift.

Sounds great.


3. We will not spend your grandchildren's money on our personal whims or to enrich our friends. It's your checkbook, too, and we will balance it for you.

Actually, yes you will spend my grandchildren's money on your personal whims because activist government is your personal whim. That being said, stunningly, I now trust you more to at least spend our money on government programs than on interest payments to China on the national debt. Not that that's much of a choice.


4. When we soon bring our sons and daughters home from Iraq, we will bring your sons and daughters home, too. They deserve to live. We promise never to send your kids off to war based on either a mistake or a lie.

Sounds fine to me in the short term, but I'm wondering if you wouldn't have considered France in 1944 to be a mistake.


5. When we make America the last Western democracy to have universal health coverage, and all Americans are able to get help when they fall ill, we promise that you, too, will be able to see a doctor, regardless of your ability to pay. And when stem cell research delivers treatments and cures for diseases that affect you and your loved ones, we'll make sure those advances are available to you and your family, too.

Great, now I get to wait 6 weeks for an MRI instead of 2 days. And instead of paying $1,100 a month in premiums I'll pay $1,500 in taxes. Explain how this benefits me again?


6. Even though you have opposed environmental regulation, when we clean up our air and water, we, the Democratic majority, will let you, too, breathe the cleaner air and drink the purer water.

Sounds good to me, let's just see if you can do it using effective market forces instead of tried-and-failed command-and-control policies.


7. Should a mass murderer ever kill 3,000 people on our soil, we will devote every single resource to tracking him down and bringing him to justice. Immediately. We will protect you.

Putting Mr. Bin Laden in jail while nice would do nothing to protect us, but I don't see how y'all can do any worse than the GOP did.


8. We will never stick our nose in your bedroom or your womb. What you do there as consenting adults is your business. We will continue to count your age from the moment you were born, not the moment you were conceived.

Sounds good to me.


9. We will not take away your hunting guns. If you need an automatic weapon or a handgun to kill a bird or a deer, then you really aren't much of a hunter and you should, perhaps, pick up another sport. We will make our streets and schools as free as we can from these weapons and we will protect your children just as we would protect ours.

Except I thought y'all said when the assault weapons ban expired that there'd be warfare in the streets, and it hasn't happened. Frankly I'd be happy to be responsible for my own protection, thank you.


10. When we raise the minimum wage, we will pay you -- and your employees -- that new wage, too. When women are finally paid what men make, we will pay conservative women that wage, too.

Fine on minimum wage, but women already make as much as men in equivalent circumstances.


11. We will respect your religious beliefs, even when you don't put those beliefs into practice. In fact, we will actively seek to promote your most radical religious beliefs ...

Sounds good.


12. We will not tolerate politicians who are corrupt and who are bought and paid for by the rich. We will go after any elected leader who puts him or herself ahead of the people. And we promise you we will go after the corrupt politicians on our side FIRST. If we fail to do this, we need you to call us on it. Simply because we are in power does not give us the right to turn our heads the other way when our party goes astray. Please perform this important duty as the loyal opposition.

Well we shall see. I haven't heard too much outcry over a Congressman Jefferson from Louisiana who may get reelected after a runoff, your presumptive Speaker is supporting a man who was caught on tape soliciting bribes for the position of Majority Leader, and I hear you're considering putting a Congressman in charge of the Intelligence Committee who was impeached from a judicial position over bribery. So I'm going to have to wait and see on this one, if you do not mind. Frankly I'd be surprised if you're any better than the crop we just threw out.

Forward Union
14th November 2006, 18:44
Democrat is the new communist.

Alexander Hamilton
14th November 2006, 18:52
Only in America can a private citizen speak for an elected body of which he has no affiliation nor any authority.

He should run for Congress, then he could attempt to speak for Congress. Why doesn't he just speak for himself?

I have no problem with Democrats in control of Congress, as I am registered a Democrat, and support universal health coverage and some other "liberal" things.

Unlike Mr. Moore, however, I don't believe that the Democratic control of Congress enlarges my penis anymore than Bush's victory two years ago shrank it any.


A. Hamilton

Jazzratt
14th November 2006, 19:25
Yawn. Fucking boring, hello new boss you're looking remarkably ssimilar to thaty older chap.

Also Moore, whilst raising good points in some areas is for the most part a massive detrement to leftism, especially anything further left of liberalism (read: everything that's actually leftist).

Rollo
14th November 2006, 19:29
Why is this liberal being unrestricted?

BurnTheOliveTree
14th November 2006, 19:52
PA - I happen to think you aren't really a liberal. That said, quoting Moore is not helping you at all. He's one of the ones who thinks the democrats are the answer to everything.

-Alex

Tungsten
14th November 2006, 20:23
1 - okay.
2 - okay.
5 - fuck off.
6 - fuck off.
7 - fair enough.
9 - fuck off.
10 - fuck off.
11 - fair enough.

I'll believe 3, 4, 8 and 12 when I see them...

loveme4whoiam
14th November 2006, 20:42
Well, that lingering amount of respect I had for Michael Moore has disappeared. What a fucking ass - I challenge him to, in two years time, prove that the Democrats have kept a single one of those "promises".

Moore is, as previously said, a douche. His (lets admit it) hilarious books promote nothing more than a change of masters, and frankly no-one should be looking at his work as anything other than a perfect example of how liberals represent no changes at all - bourgeois democracy in a nutshell.

Lenin's Law
15th November 2006, 14:23
I, and the millions of others who are now in charge with our Democratic Congress

That about says it all. "Our" Democratic Congress that we "are now in charge" of. The Democratic Party is beholden to that segment of the ruling class which brought them into power; financed their campaigns, make up their party,etc.

I can laugh at some of Moore's movies and satires but he is, unfortunately coming closer and closer to being just another "talking head" and cheerleader for the left foot of the bourgeoisie: the Democrats. Just perhaps a bit funnier and more entertarining than most of them are.

The Democratic Party is a dead end, a black-hole for sincere activists and revolutionaries, they almost never come out of it the same way they come in. It is a shame that Moore puts his interests more with the bourgeoisie and the career politicians and wealthy in the Democratic Party than he does with working-people and their allies who want to make, real, sincere, progressive change in this country and the world.

Lenin's Law
15th November 2006, 14:25
One more thing, PA, there is really nothing to "grow, learn and enligten" from here; it is all more liberal cheerleading (albeit perhaps slightly more entertaining than it usually is) and empty rhetoric that one can find just about anywhere. There is nothing to "learn from" here except to notice how some people can be so gullible and naive in placing their trust in the Democratic Party.

Pirate Utopian
15th November 2006, 16:09
ooh yeah michael moore, the true revolutionary right? :rolleyes:

OneBrickOneVoice
15th November 2006, 22:10
PA,

don't you understand that reformist-anarchism makes no fucking sense?

don't you also understand that this bourgieous liberalism is what got you in OI?

colonelguppy
15th November 2006, 22:27
i don't think moore understands how politics work in this country.

uber-liberal
15th November 2006, 22:43
i don't think moore understands how politics work in this country.

You're joking, right?


1 - okay.
2 - okay.
5 - fuck off.
6 - fuck off.
7 - fair enough.
9 - fuck off.
10 - fuck off.
11 - fair enough.

I'll believe 3, 4, 8 and 12 when I see them...

Sour grapes, old man, make bitter wine.


That about says it all. "Our" Democratic Congress that we "are now in charge" of. The Democratic Party is beholden to that segment of the ruling class which brought them into power; financed their campaigns, make up their party,etc.

You're right, they are. That power base, however, is the average, hard-working American citizen. At least it is this time around. We truly do have the power to effect change the system peacably, if only every person eligable to vote did...

Jazzratt
15th November 2006, 22:51
Most people who post here are aware that the Democrats are right wing, even by the standards of most european governments?

colonelguppy
15th November 2006, 22:53
You're joking, right?

what makes you say that?

Alexander Hamilton
16th November 2006, 00:11
Jazzratt:

Your comment:


Most people who post here are aware that the Democrats are right wing, even by the standards of most european governments?

Sould read

Most people who post here are aware that the Democrats are right wing, by the standards of most european governments?

I just removed the word "even".

And by that token, ALL of Europe is "left-wing" by our U.S. standards.

The world has a hard time with United States federalism. We are "extreemly right wing" because our Constitution is a creature of decentralization. California, Virginia and South Dakota were SUPPOSED to be more powerful than Washington, D.C., and if they wished, could have serious welfare systems, a greater tax to support education, and various other government paid for programs.

If the state chooses not to do so, the presumption is that the people don't want it so.

Massachusttes has no fault driving insurance, and Huston has no zoning laws, and Berkley, California is more left wing than Paris, France.

It's just how we do things versus how Europe does things. It's my view that the greater world choices people have the better off the world is.


A. Hamilton

Guerrilla22
16th November 2006, 01:56
Learn from Michael Moore? Right after I'm done learning from Ann Coulter and Sean Hannity the right wing equivlents of Michael Moore.

Herman
16th November 2006, 08:00
I can't believe he likes the democrats... what a fake socialist.

Jazzratt
16th November 2006, 11:40
Originally posted by Alexander [email protected] 16, 2006 12:11 am
Jazzratt:

Your comment:


Most people who post here are aware that the Democrats are right wing, even by the standards of most european governments?

Sould read

Most people who post here are aware that the Democrats are right wing, by the standards of most european governments?

I just removed the word "even".

And by that token, ALL of Europe is "left-wing" by our U.S. standards.

The world has a hard time with United States federalism. We are "extreemly right wing" because our Constitution is a creature of decentralization. California, Virginia and South Dakota were SUPPOSED to be more powerful than Washington, D.C., and if they wished, could have serious welfare systems, a greater tax to support education, and various other government paid for programs.

If the state chooses not to do so, the presumption is that the people don't want it so.

Massachusttes has no fault driving insurance, and Huston has no zoning laws, and Berkley, California is more left wing than Paris, France.

It's just how we do things versus how Europe does things. It's my view that the greater world choices people have the better off the world is.


A. Hamilton
Interesting argument, but does that not suggest one cannot objectivley asses whether something is right or left wing? I used the word even because europe too is right wing, just not quite as far to the right as the USA, for the most part anyway - there are of course exceptions.

Lenin's Law
16th November 2006, 12:20
Originally posted by uber-liberal+November 15, 2006 10:43 pm--> (uber-liberal @ November 15, 2006 10:43 pm) You're right, they are. That power base, however, is the average, hard-working American citizen. At least it is this time around. We truly do have the power to effect change the system peacably, if only every person eligable to vote did... [/b]
Actually, most average, hard working Americans don't vote at all, thus showing their disgust at the two-party system of bourgeois democracy and the dictatorship of capital. And "this time around" is rich, so who were supporting the Democrats last time and the time before that?

It is "possible" to change the system peaceably, but very, very unlikely; the ruling class with billions staked into the system will not give up easily and will not hand over power just because we whine hard enough or elect the left foot of the ruling class into power.

And "if only every person eligible to vote did" well thanks Public Service Announcement, but in reality, most working people realize (correctly) that the two party capitalist system is inherently rigged against their interests. Even the ones that vote,if you ask them if either party is for major change, stands up for their interests, they will say No. So if you combine the majority of workers who isn't voting at all and the majority who do vote BUT do so only reluctantly and half-heartedly, you will get an overwhelming majority of working people who would vote No Confidence into the system if the option were given.

Blaming the people for not voting in a corrupt, bourgeois election is silly and self-defeating. And it really is a very liberal thing to do:


YourAverageLiberal
"If only those stupid workers were as smart as us enlightened, educated liberals and voted, Oh! How things would be different! But rats, they don't, I guess not everone can be as smart as us liberals!"

Yes some working people do vote for the Democrats, but our mission as revolutionaries should be to raise the class consciousness of those workers, and let them know that voting for any of these parties is practically meangingless; that neither will or can affect any real positive change for working people, only they can do that by organizing themselves under their own organizations, not through the organizations of the bourgeois and the capitalists who are fundamentally working against their interests. And very much for their own.

No amount of voting can change these principles, despite what your social studies teacher might tell you.

AlwaysAnarchy
16th November 2006, 19:21
Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2006 07:29 pm
Why is this liberal being unrestricted?
Why are you NOT restricted??? :P :P :P

AlwaysAnarchy
16th November 2006, 19:24
Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2006 10:10 pm
don't you also understand that this bourgieous liberalism is what got you in OI?
Uhhh i&#39;m getting unrestricted soon...in anyhoo ...i don&#39;t see how I should need lectures from you&#33; <_< After all, weren&#39;t you the guy whose thread got called "the worst ever on revleft" by King Malte himself&#33;?? :lol: Maybe your sectarianism is what you got you OUT of the CC? hmmmm?? :mellow: :huh: ;)

Nusocialist
17th November 2006, 07:36
I presume that means you&#39;ll also refrain from the liberal arguing tactic which up to now has involved calling conservatives racists, sexists, bigots who hate the poor and the elderly
Sounds pretty accurate to me.

uber-liberal
17th November 2006, 17:56
what makes you say that?

Simple: you are forgetting that this is PRECISELY how our precious democracy works. I think these people understand politics quite well. As for the intrinsic nuances of Congress/Parlament, who does understand them well enough to function, and would be caught here?

colonelguppy
17th November 2006, 19:31
you honestly beleive that democrats are going to do all of the things that moore said? the track record of the two major parties disagree with you.

uber-liberal
18th November 2006, 07:40
Originally posted by [email protected] 17, 2006 07:31 pm
you honestly beleive that democrats are going to do all of the things that moore said? the track record of the two major parties disagree with you.
I believe they will try (maybe not as a whole, but in part) to do what Howard Dean put forward last week on Crossfire. Moore is a left-leaning liberal who I agree with more often than not, but his political influence is purely on the pop level. He does what he can to make the US a better place by his opinion and his values. I hope he never quits. Everyone knows we need someone to keep the likes of Ann Coulter and her Republi-pundit ilk out of the advisory boards of Congress...

ComradeR
18th November 2006, 13:13
The major problem is that they have basicly become too wings of the same party with the same basic agenda. Fuck em both and fuck this damn modern Plutocracy we live in today.

uber-liberal
18th November 2006, 20:17
So you voted to try and affect change, or are you just pissing up a rope?

colonelguppy
19th November 2006, 07:26
Originally posted by uber&#045;liberal+November 18, 2006 02:40 am--> (uber-liberal @ November 18, 2006 02:40 am)
[email protected] 17, 2006 07:31 pm
you honestly beleive that democrats are going to do all of the things that moore said? the track record of the two major parties disagree with you.
I believe they will try (maybe not as a whole, but in part) to do what Howard Dean put forward last week on Crossfire. Moore is a left-leaning liberal who I agree with more often than not, but his political influence is purely on the pop level. He does what he can to make the US a better place by his opinion and his values. I hope he never quits. Everyone knows we need someone to keep the likes of Ann Coulter and her Republi-pundit ilk out of the advisory boards of Congress... [/b]
dude pretty much everyone who goes for a political position is going to try to be as moderate as possible. thats why all the moderate dem&#39;s one, not just simply because they&#39;re not republican but because they represent a realisitc voting option for most moderates.