France and Spain Are Losers

[Alexander Hamilton]

I've been to Spain and I've been to France.
(I did not see the Queen's underpants.)

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHHA!!!!

(Sorry, old joke.)


So:

What's up with these 2 bit sleep-a-thons or what? When I first started going there I got laid a lot, AND there was a lot of politics. (Not the anti-U.S. stuff, which is ALWAYS going on there, not just post Iraq).

Now there are still a lot of pretty girls stripping down at a moment's notice, but where are all the commies?

How come that stuff with the angry Muslims living in the dirt ghettos didn't turn into a revolt of some kind? Why aren't all the commies in the streets every day, and shutting down the Metro, and trying to sack the homes in the Hotel de Ville district?

Why don't they get off the dime there?

The truth is that I'm hungy for the entertainment of it all. But that's just me. Don't you commies want the prize of a major European nation?


A. Hamilton

[Rollo]

Did you try:

The communist party?
The local communist or anarchist organisations
Activist groups.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Rollo:

All these organizations are doing is "communist chic" attitudes. There are no demands, no progress, no attempt to seriously shut down Paris and camp throughout its streets. Over 30% of the people there are registered as some kind of communist. This has been the case for over a decade. That's one hell of an army.

30% of Americans are conservative Republicans who always vote so in every election. BUT, they believe in democracy.

The commies in France and Spain support direct, violent action, or some type of physical overthrow of their nation-states.

It's almost as though many there only use the communist "logo" to be cool. As I wrote: communist chic. The same is happening in America. Che's picture is now part of our pop culture.

I suppose the same is happening in western Europe.


A. Hamilton

[Rollo]

Start your own organisation to do those things you wish to.

[Alexander Hamilton]

I wrote in my first statement:


The truth is that I'm hungy for the entertainment of it all. But that's just me.

I don't really support those things, just thought it'd be a lot of fun to watch.


A.H.

[Rollo]

Go to eastern europe.

[Alexander Hamilton]

You may have something there...

[kaaos_af]

The class war isn't 'entertainment'.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2006 09:07 am
The class war isn't 'entertainment'.
I find violence against the rich to be very entertaining, actually.

[An archist]

Well, I don't know where you got those figures from, but if you wanted 'entertainment', well you could've tried the Paris banlieues, or like Rollo said, find places where commies/anarchos meet/organize.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by An [email protected] 14, 2006 10:03 am
find places where commies/anarchos meet/organize.
I doubt you'd find much more than boredom in most of them, actually.

[BreadBros]

I dont get the original question. There isnt much revolutionary sentiment at the moment anywhere in first world, what exactly would make you expect it in France + Spain in particular?

[Alexander Hamilton]

Help for the Newbies:

Why France and Spain, as they are in the First World, someone has asked, and at the same time, a clarification of the question:

I know a lot about these two countries, and Portugal. It is, let us say, one of the places i hang out.

In the late '60s, France had the closest opportunity to press revolution.

In the 1950s, with only 10% to 20% of America willing to participate actively (or perhaps less), and with a dedicated 3% willing to risk their lives, the U.S. Civil Rights movement changed the face of the United States and eventually the world.

France and Spain can definately raise 5% of the nation's population to halt all commerce in key areas, namely the big cities, and the Channel crossings, and some of the fronteers. 5% to 10% of the population (exreemly dedicated communists) will mobilize at a moment's notice and be led to demand a different society in various areas of society.

What exactly are they waiting for?

Since 1960, France has become far more socially democratic than Marxist in their conduct and laws passed. Why so?


I hope I made the issue better to understand.


A. H.

[AlwaysAnarchy]

It's true for the most part, I THINK so anyway. Not sure completely.

[BreadBros]

What exactly are they waiting for?

Probably greater anti-capitalist sentiment among the wider populace (which seems to be slightly emerging recently, although for the past 20 years its been in a decline as the bourgeoisie has been particularly successful) and an opportunity that presents itself with the possibility of victory. People just rising up out of the blue is possible, but likely weakness in the form of loss of control of the populace or an economic crisis would make victory much more likely and lead to greater resistance. 5% of the population isn't enough to overthrow an entire economic system. Remember that while only 3% of the population may have actively fought for civil rights, civil rights reforms is a far cry from overthrow of society. Furthermore, the civil rights movement had some powerful allies in the form of liberal politicians and members of the bourgeoisie who saw the possibilities of reforming the labor pool to include greater numbers of African-Americans with greater labor power (from higher education, greater wealth, etc). That doesn't exist for an overthrow of society.


Since 1960, France has become far more socially democratic than Marxist in their conduct and laws passed. Why so?


Well, I don't think France was ever really Marxist in conduct or laws (nevermind the fact that Marxist laws seems like an inherent contradiction). As for why the population has become less Marxist and more socially democratic, because the 1970s-90s and into today have been a period of bourgeois success and reaction. The collapse of the USSR, the rhetoric of politics, etc. have all done their job to argue to the populace that communism doesn't work, so of course people turn to something that seems to hold out a greater hope of success, reformist social democracy.

[Fvck_It]

a rather stupid and pointless thread...a revolution or a change or whatever that is to come will come when it has to...and besides...it's not as easy as you think to mobilize and 'shut cities down'....communication is difficult...meeting up with other like-minded people is difficult...especially in europe...every other street has a f*cking camera watching you and everything you do........it gets rather unpleasant at times when you end up getting caught by the police and beaten up just because you're leftists and they're sure you were out to vandalize some stupid megastore....or were smoking weed or hash in the middle of the street....

about your 'facts and figures'....i'm not sure where you got them from but okay....say they're remotely accurate....wouldn't 10% of the population of a nation...going to arms and/or halting life for the entire nation contradict what we believe in? i'm not saying that we look for 100% support....but we would like to have a majority of the population to support us....otherwise...if we succeed....it would end up being another botched up go at socialism/communism and would turn into a dictatorship eventually.......think about it....

and about 'chic communists' or whatever...it's true...a lot of people just adopt socialism because they think it's cool or whatever....well....i have nothing to say about such degenerates....

[Rollo]

I don't think the police beat people up for being leftist.

About the lifestylists they are idiots plain and simple and should never be mentioned again.

[Alexander Hamilton]

Fuck It:

I can understand some of the things you wrote, and see it from your point of view. But don't knock logistics. These things are carefully planned and orchestrated for effectiveness. The best of improv is often based on a great deal of planning.

My figures are pretty accurate, and the party break downs in France have been posted here on another dicussion. Of the 30% plus socialist, about 12% are hard core communists in France, and MY GUESS based on the 12 is that 5% would fight tomorrow if given an objective.

But despite the planning, these things require a trigger to go off. That's the built in fault with my argument: that one cannot create that trigger; it just happens.

The great built in problem with much of the current Marxist appologists (they hang out here, of course) is that on one hand, they argue, "Of course you can keep YOUR house...Why would anyone want YOUR house?" And at the same time argue for the abolition of property.

But thanks for the response.


A. Hamilton

[Fvck_It]

Rollo - umm....i've been beaten up and arrested once.


Alexander Hamilton - hmm....i get your point now....it's very true that a revolution will not occur without a trigger...and yes...it would just happen....because it would be difficult...if not impossible to create a trigger.....
and well..to tell you the truth....i call some marxists 'text book marxists'.....the thing is....they read too much....and they argue even more......and the thing with me is.....i believe that anything on the left-side of things comes from passion....not books and who said what and who supported what....it's pure passion....now i'm not going to run around throwing quotes and arguing about what i label myself as....or what i label others as...because what we're doing is basically...what we're against....which is discrimination....get what i mean?....a revolution will come when we stop bickering amongst ourselves.
and the whole property thing baffles me...lol.