The "Ok great so what are you going to do"

[Dominicana_1965]

I want to know (if any of you have accomplished this task,which im sure a couple have) how can i convert someone to actually wanting to change to a Leftist. I dont mean by force, its basicly like i explain to the person whats wrong with Capitalism then i explain to the individual how Socialism/Communism and other Leftist ideologies seek to change that exploitation. But throughout all of it all they reply with is this question "so what do you want to do about it" . I basicly want them to research on it,but they see it as just a "eh"

Have any of you converted someone who did not see it as a big deal? And how?

[manic expression]

It's very, very difficult to get someone to care about something they don't. You could try to take them to a very impoverished area just to see the real effects of exploitation and injustice. Maybe, just maybe this will get them to care, although it's a long shot (and probably a hassle, too).

[Enragé]

I've gotten them so far that they say "yea communism is a really good idea"
but actually getting them do something...well no, basicly because nothing happens around here, and people are hesitant to do things if they're virtually on their own.

anyway
most people agree from the outset that the world how it is now, is a shitty place. All that remains is simply "curing" them of their misconceptions of communism (aka, explaining how in no way its totalitarian etc), and disproving capitalist arguments against communism (which with most people just boils down to some vague concept human nature)

[bloody_capitalist_sham]

My usual technique is to ridicule all other ideologies. Including religion, anything superstition based, like patriotism, non-scientific opinions.

Then if your criticizing capitalism, if the person starts to defend it then crush any ideas of it being a meritocracy, make sure they know that you think any of their wild plans like being a successful property owner are ludicrous. Compare their status to the capitalists and make them offended or feel stupid by using sarcasm.

make sure they know they are working class and dispel myths about being middle class or whatever.

Ive basically changed loads of people's view by openly mocking their opinions (in a fun way, but not directly them personally as that would set them against you) and then make a strong statement followed with "im sure you agree" or whatever.

It works really well when its done to guys in front of girls they like, because they start defending your arguments because they can see how well thought out you are and the fact you have mocked other ideologies they cannot defend those without losing face.

[Enragé]

err

if you do it that way you dont change their minds, you pressure them into saying they believe something they dont.

way to go

[An archist]

Well, I haven't really converted any of my friends, but I have transformed passive leftists into active leftists and have made people see that squatters for instance are really nice people that work hard.

[R_P_A_S]

what ever you do, don't criticize anyones persnonal beliefs. Even if they are based solely on their opinion and have no reference what's so ever. this will make you just as ignorant as they are.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

No it won't. It might make them hostile to you and what you're saying; but it won't "make you just as ignorant as they are."

There are different times and different kinds of people that require different tactics and strategies. It's best to develop these collectively in a genuinely revolutionary organization.

If you get people to the point of asking "so what do you want to do about it," you're doing good. It doesn't always happen in a day. Alot of times you've got to talk to people on a daily basis over a period of time. You relate revolutionary theory and critiques to their daily lives. When someone they know gets evicted, gets fired, when there's a strike, when the cops kill somebody in the neighborhood, etc., you relate that to the overall picture. Sometimes, when open class conflict is going on, people will get down with what you're saying. Other times, like in long periods of reaction (i.e. the years immediately after the fall of the USSR for example), you might not get much of a hearing. It might take people years to understand what you were talking about (for example, PATCO workers endorsed Reagan only to have him smash their strike soon after. It changed alot of their thoughts).

When someone asks me "so what do you want to do about it," I tell them, build this revolutionary movement, and keep building it, until the time when we have the strength, support and force to overthrow this wretched system.

[Political_Chucky]

My friend converted me, but hes not on this site. I think I have actaully gotten more into becoming a leftist then he has. I don't remember exactly how he did it, which is funny since it was just this last summer, but he explained to me how he had been reading a lot about politics and shit.

One day I went to borders(something I had never really done) and was looking in the history section for things about Mexican and Chicano culture(but found nothing interesting!) and a book caught my eye. The Art of War by Sun Tzu. I Picked it up not knowing much about it but just facisnated that it was a manuscript from backthen which explains how to build an army or more importantly, using it to interpret how to become a better commander or better person. I read it and then told him what I was reading, and I traded him my book for 1984 by George Orwell. We would then actaully talk on the phone for hours talking about politics out of all things. He explained more and more about communism to me and thats how it started.

Mind you, we are only 17. Two male 17 year olds discussing politics? Fuckin weird as fuck. Especially since we use to be pot heads, and me doing the stupidest drugs one could do. I don't know what it was, but he made me realize how fucked up the world is, and how fucked up society is. Also, reading The Autobiography of Malcolm x was very influential. He was such a remarkable person, it makes me sad to think someone would kill a person who was so much against the opression of minorities.

Anyways, I have tried converting people but so far, I havn't made much progress. A couple of gangsterish guys I talk to were actaully coming along, but I think they liked my ideas of fuck America rather then the actual helping the people ideas. Its hard to find genuine people who really care and I think this site brings a lot of us together.

[forza_che]

The autobiography of Malcolm X was also influential in interesting me in left wing politics.

My general awakening came through Che though. It was in reading his speeches and about him that led me down this path. Truly one of the greatest men to walk this earth.

[RevolutionaryMarxist]

In High School, the biggest problem I see is that people don't care anything about politics or the world, because the intense workloads from history courses instantly make people hate them.

It would be like making someone care about biology outside of class, but more people care about that because "its relevant to health". "Politics" instantly scares most people away.

It would be appreciated if someone could tell me how to make someone care, and taking them into impoverished areas doesn't really help, because they just say "so what? I'm living good, why should I care that these suckers starve and die". While these aren't the exact words, it is the general mindset or idea most suburban youth believe in (at least in my area)

Most of my conversations simply reduce themselves to the "why should I care?", even though I've had relative sucess with a few, who now don't see the label of "Communist" as bad anymore.

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 03:33 pm
In High School, the biggest problem I see is that people don't care anything about politics or the world, because the intense workloads from history courses instantly make people hate them.

It would be like making someone care about biology outside of class, but more people care about that because "its relevant to health". "Politics" instantly scares most people away.

It would be appreciated if someone could tell me how to make someone care, and taking them into impoverished areas doesn't really help, because they just say "so what? I'm living good, why should I care that these suckers starve and die". While these aren't the exact words, it is the general mindset or idea most suburban youth believe in (at least in my area)

Most of my conversations simply reduce themselves to the "why should I care?", even though I've had relative sucess with a few, who now don't see the label of "Communist" as bad anymore.
Honestly, the best place to go and talk about politics and such is in a debate club or maybe mecha club(even though this is primarly for Mexicans, its suppose to be about politics also yet lately I have yet to see any politics mentioned in it.) Its just a waste of time trying to talk to people in highschool. They don't see the reality of life yet and how it is to be a worker of society. Most of those kids will probably become one in poverty, but as of now, I don't try and persuade anyone. Best thing to do is get their number, and hit them up in 5 years or so and then talk to them about it. They will then understand what your talking about.

[violencia.Proletariat]

Originally posted by Political_Chucky+November 27, 2006 07:45 pm--> (Political_Chucky @ November 27, 2006 07:45 pm)
[email protected] 27, 2006 03:33 pm
In High School, the biggest problem I see is that people don't care anything about politics or the world, because the intense workloads from history courses instantly make people hate them.

It would be like making someone care about biology outside of class, but more people care about that because "its relevant to health". "Politics" instantly scares most people away.

It would be appreciated if someone could tell me how to make someone care, and taking them into impoverished areas doesn't really help, because they just say "so what? I'm living good, why should I care that these suckers starve and die". While these aren't the exact words, it is the general mindset or idea most suburban youth believe in (at least in my area)

Most of my conversations simply reduce themselves to the "why should I care?", even though I've had relative sucess with a few, who now don't see the label of "Communist" as bad anymore.
Honestly, the best place to go and talk about politics and such is in a debate club or maybe mecha club(even though this is primarly for Mexicans, its suppose to be about politics also yet lately I have yet to see any politics mentioned in it.) Its just a waste of time trying to talk to people in highschool. They don't see the reality of life yet and how it is to be a worker of society. Most of those kids will probably become one in poverty, but as of now, I don't try and persuade anyone. Best thing to do is get their number, and hit them up in 5 years or so and then talk to them about it. They will then understand what your talking about. [/b]
What exactly are you trying to say? Highschool students can't care about society? I beg to differ.

You should try and talk to as many people as possible about your ideas if you suspect they'd be interested. Maybe try talking in a larger context and not your specific idealogy. Maybe your fellow students might be interested in forming a chapter of Students for a Democratic Society. You won't know till you try.

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by violencia.Proletariat+November 27, 2006 03:55 pm--> (violencia.Proletariat @ November 27, 2006 03:55 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 07:45 pm

[email protected] 27, 2006 03:33 pm
In High School, the biggest problem I see is that people don't care anything about politics or the world, because the intense workloads from history courses instantly make people hate them.

It would be like making someone care about biology outside of class, but more people care about that because "its relevant to health". "Politics" instantly scares most people away.

It would be appreciated if someone could tell me how to make someone care, and taking them into impoverished areas doesn't really help, because they just say "so what? I'm living good, why should I care that these suckers starve and die". While these aren't the exact words, it is the general mindset or idea most suburban youth believe in (at least in my area)

Most of my conversations simply reduce themselves to the "why should I care?", even though I've had relative sucess with a few, who now don't see the label of "Communist" as bad anymore.
Honestly, the best place to go and talk about politics and such is in a debate club or maybe mecha club(even though this is primarly for Mexicans, its suppose to be about politics also yet lately I have yet to see any politics mentioned in it.) Its just a waste of time trying to talk to people in highschool. They don't see the reality of life yet and how it is to be a worker of society. Most of those kids will probably become one in poverty, but as of now, I don't try and persuade anyone. Best thing to do is get their number, and hit them up in 5 years or so and then talk to them about it. They will then understand what your talking about.
What exactly are you trying to say? Highschool students can't care about society? I beg to differ.

You should try and talk to as many people as possible about your ideas if you suspect they'd be interested. Maybe try talking in a larger context and not your specific idealogy. Maybe your fellow students might be interested in forming a chapter of Students for a Democratic Society. You won't know till you try. [/b]
Well I don't exactly mean all students, but I do mean the majority. I mean really, even students in my area, which is rural and more or less in poverty (lately it seems as if either people are doing better off or just more rich people are moving in.) really have no sence of the world around them. I So, to correct my previous statement, a MAJORITY of students do not care about politics. They have yet to see the real world for what it is. They have yet to live on their own, pay taxes, work a job, and pay expenses. I personally don't think i'm any special but I do feel as if I am more enlightened then the average student.

have tried to talk to students about politics and not just about communism. But most of the time they either aren't interested in it at all or they are interested, but do not want to take any action. I have spoke openly about my beliefs in classrooms and also participated in debates among students I do not even know. I have gotten many people into it and even changed a person's view. (they believed fascism was better for the people. I Guess I can say he was just misinformed.) I doubt they would want to form a students for a democratic society, but I will try. I have tried to at least make a debate club( how geeky ain't it? :D ) but no luck.

[Rawthentic]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 13, 2006 04:56 pm
No it won't. It might make them hostile to you and what you're saying; but it won't "make you just as ignorant as they are."

There are different times and different kinds of people that require different tactics and strategies. It's best to develop these collectively in a genuinely revolutionary organization.

If you get people to the point of asking "so what do you want to do about it," you're doing good. It doesn't always happen in a day. Alot of times you've got to talk to people on a daily basis over a period of time. You relate revolutionary theory and critiques to their daily lives. When someone they know gets evicted, gets fired, when there's a strike, when the cops kill somebody in the neighborhood, etc., you relate that to the overall picture. Sometimes, when open class conflict is going on, people will get down with what you're saying. Other times, like in long periods of reaction (i.e. the years immediately after the fall of the USSR for example), you might not get much of a hearing. It might take people years to understand what you were talking about (for example, PATCO workers endorsed Reagan only to have him smash their strike soon after. It changed alot of their thoughts).

When someone asks me "so what do you want to do about it," I tell them, build this revolutionary movement, and keep building it, until the time when we have the strength, support and force to overthrow this wretched system.
Word up. Its about time that somebody knows this. Most others feel that making others feel ignorant and dogmatically choking people with theory will convert them to revolutionaries, but they are wrong, those are the oppressor tactics. And I also agree with the idea that this needs to be grouped into a solid revolutionary organization with solid theory and action, not adventurism.