Your position on California's Prop 83

[Political_Chucky]

Prop 83 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/09/MNG1LM959D1.DTL&feed=rss.news)

I'll discuss my views after a couple of people respond.

[IronLion]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 05:28 am
Prop 83 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/11/09/MNG1LM959D1.DTL&feed=rss.news)

I'll discuss my views after a couple of people respond.
An excellent point you bring up. It's a tricky situation. Who's to say who's being watched with the GPS monitoring.
Do you share the same views on this prop. as I do?

[Tekun]

As far as protecting children, the prop is more or less effective
However, I should stress that it does violate some of the priviliges of the offender, be it at the expense of securing the welfare of children

However, seeing how I oppose almost all laws/props created or written by professional politicians, the pigs, the courts, or the federal government I want the public to make their own justice rather than having an organ of capitalism making all the decisions and laws in our society
The ppl should vote and decide for themselves how to best protect their children from sexual offenders
After all, we're the ones living down here with them, I don't see Chief of Police Bratton, the mayor, or the special interest groups living next door to us
We are the one's living here amongst sexual offenders, so why are we not included in the decision making process?

My position: prop 83 is a good deterrent, but rather than having the bourgeoisie make decisions for us, the ppl should make their own laws

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by Tekun
My position: prop 83 is a good deterrent, but rather than having the bourgeoisie make decisions for us, the ppl should make their own laws

Whilst i agree with your sentiment, that the people/community should decide the 'laws' that govern us, i dont think that is the appropiate position to take on this issue in the current social climate/society we have.

If we were discussing a revolutionary, anarchist-communist society - Yes.

But as it stands, i think in general, there is just too much ignorance, fear and hatred surrounding the issue of pedophilia in contemporary society, and the corporate media only whips up these emotions and attempts to manipulate opinion towards vigilante justice and the death penalty (as well as other punitive measures).

Though no doubt opinions would vary from community to community and country-to-country, in places like Texas, where there is a strong culture around the death penalty (as opposed to say oz generally, where the majority oppose the death penalty), id be very reluctant to put the sentencing of pedophiles to the ballot, i mean like how people in states all across the USA have responded to same-sex marriage legislation, BAN BAN BAN. Abortion? RESTRICT or BAN BAN BAN.

As many people still link homosexuality and pedophilia (see the other thread on this page) - given the response to same-sex marriage legislation when that was put to the ballot, heterosexism is still a widespread phenomenon, and if you think homosexuality and pedophilia are related, you're probably gonna favour regressive (and punitive considering that pedophiles are regarded as especially 'deviant') treatment of pedophiles,

The general community is often, but not always ahead of the pollies when it comes to social values, however i dont think this is a clear cut case of one of those times.

[IronLion]

Why was the pedophilia and homosexuality thread deleted?

[BreadBros]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 11:02 am
Why was the pedophilia and homosexuality thread deleted?
Because it attempted to link child abuse (pedophilia) with homosexuality.

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=58667

[TC]

I think the hysteria around "sex offenders" is completely out of placed and probably has more to do with an attempt to create a fear of an identifiable and easy to justifiably demonize enemy in the public, to make them easier to control, than anything else.

I mean, when people are afraid to walk home alone at night even in areas where the statistical likelyhood of anything bad happening is negiligable, then the plublicity around it has been effective behavioral modification against the general publics interests.

Just as a grossly disproportional fear of terrorism and foriegn attack helps to justify the military and state intervention abroad, fear of you or your child being attacked in a park or school by sex criminals helps to justify expanded police and courts and state intervention on a local level.


Actual pedophiles who pray on random children are increadibly rare. The clear majority of child molesters target children they have private access to, like their own or their sibling's or wive's or congregants' whatever something that this kindof a proposal does absolutely nothing to help, so it doesn't address the real problem but rather fear mongers about a statistically irrelevant problem.

Moreover at least in the united states the people who might be classified as 'sex criminals' don't just include child molesters and rapists and such but also people who have participated in outlawed consensual sex, "statutory rapists" often doing more to offend the sensibilities of prudish parents than their alleged 'victims,' and people who have been convicted of archiac sodomy and anti-oral sex laws (which is something that people who are already incarcerated under unrelated offenses still get charged with).

[IronLion]

Originally posted by BreadBros+November 13, 2006 11:18 am--> (BreadBros @ November 13, 2006 11:18 am)
[email protected] 13, 2006 11:02 am
Why was the pedophilia and homosexuality thread deleted?
Because it attempted to link child abuse (pedophilia) with homosexuality.

http://www.revolutionaryleft.com/index.php?showtopic=58667 [/b]
:wacko: I think people made too much about this. The thread-starter was just asking a simple question that required a one letter answer...

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 02:44 am
However, seeing how I oppose almost all laws/props created or written by professional politicians, the pigs, the courts, or the federal government I want the public to make their own justice rather than having an organ of capitalism making all the decisions and laws in our society
The ppl should vote and decide for themselves how to best protect their children from sexual offenders
After all, we're the ones living down here with them, I don't see Chief of Police Bratton, the mayor, or the special interest groups living next door to us
We are the one's living here amongst sexual offenders, so why are we not included in the decision making process?
Well the people did have a say in it. Isn't that what the elections were for? The proposition won with like 70 % or something.

But I don't believe this is a fair law, even though I am not entirely sure whether or not it is very effective. Because according to the law, sexual predators who have already been convicted MUST wear a G.P.S. brace from now on. People who already served time in jail and or other penalties. Not that I condone their actions, they did already serve their time and now they are imposing another punishment which is a violation of double jeopardy. So this law has to be overturned, at least for the people already convicted and tried.

[Tekun]

Originally posted by Political_Chucky+--> (Political_Chucky)Well the people did have a say in it. Isn't that what the elections were for? The proposition won with like 70 % or something.[/b]

The ppl had a say in it after it was drafted, approved, and rewritten by professional politicians, the pigs, and several interests groups who make the gps monitoring devices that these offenders will be wearing
The extent of their "say" was limited to a YES or NO vote, no cooperation nor involvement from those that the law will affect i.e. working class ppl
And either way, if it didn't pass in these elections the interest groups would rewrite it and put a different name on the prop and we'd see it on the ballot in the next elections
If it did pass, some other bourgeoisie structure would fight to stop its implementation, coincidentally.....

You're right the proposition did pass, but in a show of judicial and bureaucratic force, the courts blocked many of the key provisions of Prop 83, only hrs after it passed :rolleyes:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../n141657S77.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2006/11/08/state/n141657S77.DTL)

So as u can see, the ppl's voice is very much ignored and/or limited to what the ruling class wants
Some elections....



Black Dagger
Whilst i agree with your sentiment, that the people/community should decide the 'laws' that govern us, i dont think that is the appropiate position to take on this issue in the current social climate/society we have.


I agree completely with your analysis of society's view on pedophilia
However, considering the widespread fear and hatred towards pedophiles as you explained, I think that the only and fair way to deal with this issue is for the ppl to make decisions for themselves based on cooperative discussion and thorough education
Though I realize that this is practically impossible as of right now in the US, its the only way to get a popular solution to the problem that is going to affect many working class ppl

What other position should I take? Should I support a prop written by the cops, the interest groups, and professional politicians? That's why my position is for ppl to make their own laws, or at least for a commission composed of everyday ppl to make laws such as these
Any other position would to a certain degree support the widespread phobia created by the media, the action of the cops in respect to sexual crimes, and a gross violation of ppl's rights which the proposition advocates

In addition, your position on this case is, as u put it, not very "clear cut"
So that's why Im curious to hear why u downplayed my position, seeing how its the only specific position in the entire thread

[Political_Chucky]

Originally posted by [email protected] 14, 2006 01:57 am
The ppl had a say in it after it was drafted, approved, and rewritten by professional politicians, the pigs, and several interests groups who make the gps monitoring devices that these offenders will be wearing
The extent of their "say" was limited to a YES or NO vote, no cooperation nor involvement from those that the law will affect i.e. working class ppl
And either way, if it didn't pass in these elections the interest groups would rewrite it and put a different name on the prop and we'd see it on the ballot in the next elections
If it did pass, some other bourgeoisie structure would fight to stop its implementation, coincidentally.....

You're right the proposition did pass, but in a show of judicial and bureaucratic force, the courts blocked many of the key provisions of Prop 83, only hrs after it passed :rolleyes:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?.../n141657S77.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2006/11/08/state/n141657S77.DTL)

So as u can see, the ppl's voice is very much ignored and/or limited to what the ruling class wants
Some elections....
Oh yeah I see what you mean by that. I just still don't understand how it was passed even though it violates consitutional rights. This is just another example of a waste of tax payers money because we already have sex offenders registering in the community so there is not reason why the community should feel any safer.