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Lenin's Law
10th November 2006, 06:06
As a teacher, it's always disgusted me how it is near-mandatory in most schools to stand up for the pledge of allegiance. In mine, you don't have to actually take part in the pledge, but you do have to stand up when told and remain "respectful." It's a lesson in obedience and submissiveness to the state and authority than anything else.

So this article caught my eye: a student group at a California college voted to ban the pledge of allegiance at their meetings. A few of them were even wearing "revolutionary style berets" indicating hopefully some leftist politics.

The article of course, is typically bourgeois and reactionary: it quotes some right-wing zealot about how some imperialist state is "the only thing she's passionate about" which if true indicates he lives a rather sad life. They devoted 3 paragraphs to her and quoted her twice, more than any other person including the people that we assumed the article was actually about! On the page itself, it shows a picture of new US citizens pledging allegiance carrying American flags in their arms, which has nothing to do with the issue at hand.

Anyway, I am glad to see that some students, on their own initiative are starting to challenge what goes in their schools. Maybe a few other rev-lefters can use this thread to tell us stories about some kind of disobedience they had in refusing to make "the Pledge" at their school.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061110/us_nm/life_pledge_dc

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Student leaders at a California college have touched off a furor by banning the Pledge of Allegiance at their meetings, saying they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and the U.S. government.

The move by Orange Coast College student trustees, the latest clash over patriotism and religion in American schools, has infuriated some of their classmates -- prompting one young woman to loudly recite the pledge in front of the board on Wednesday night in defiance of the rule.

"America is the one thing I'm passionate about and I can't let them take that away from me," 18-year-old political science major Christine Zoldos told Reuters.

"The fact that they have enough power to ban one of the most valued traditions in America is just horrible," Zoldos said, adding she would attend every board meeting to salute the flag.

The move was lead by three recently elected student trustees, who ran for office wearing revolutionary-style berets and said they do not believe in publicly swearing an oath to the American flag and government at their school. One student trustee voted against the measure, which does not apply to other student groups or campus meetings.

The ban follows a 2002 ruling by a federal appeals court in San Francisco that said forcing school children to recite the pledge was unconstitutional because of the phrase "under God." The U.S. Supreme Court struck down the ruling on procedural grounds but left the door open for another challenge.

"That ('under God') part is sort of offensive to me," student trustee Jason Bell, who proposed the ban, told Reuters. "I am an atheist and a socialist, and if you know your history, you know that 'under God' was inserted during the McCarthy era and was directly designed to destroy my ideology."

Bell said the ban largely came about because the trustees didn't want to publicly vow loyalty to the American government before their meetings. "Loyalty ought to be something the government earns through performance, not through reciting a pledge," he said.

Martha Parham, a spokeswoman for the Coast Community College District, said her office had no standing on the student board and took no position on the flag salute ban.

"If their personal belief is that they don't want to say the Pledge of Allegiance, the district certainly isn't going to dictate what they do," she said.

More than 28,000 students attend the community college, located in conservative Orange County, California, south of Los Angeles.

Nothing Human Is Alien
10th November 2006, 06:56
Cheers to them for that. A great move.

BreadBros
10th November 2006, 10:43
Awesome!

Oh, and stay away from Christine Zoldos, sounds like a maniac.

sav
10th November 2006, 12:20
Should've gone one step further and burnt it.

I'm talkin about the flag of course..... :ph34r:

FatFreeMilk
10th November 2006, 19:31
Pretty impressive considering these kids are in Orange County. But they only ban it at their meetings... I'm not sure if they're leaders of some sort of ASB or something but either way, how often do student groups start off their meetings with the pledge?

Patchd
10th November 2006, 20:02
I guess I'm lucky, in the UK we don't have to swear allegiance to the state or the Monarchy :D . Although my school is still pretty strict, and tries to instill Christianity into school life (hymns, church in Christmas), but most people don't give a fuck. It's not a religious school either.

Hegemonicretribution
10th November 2006, 20:37
In some ways I was always envious about not having something such as the pledge to rebel against. Of course there are plenty of things to take issue with, but the pledge (or rather the end of it) should be a key priority for young revolutionaries. It is such a perfect step into conflict based politics and offers a chance to learn. It is also an absolute disgrace and ctudents should be taking more steps towards bringing it to an end.

Tekun
10th November 2006, 22:39
Good for them, its great to see college students with this type of activism
Especially in the OC, a bastion of conservativeness

sav
11th November 2006, 00:48
Originally posted by [email protected] 10, 2006 08:02 pm
I guess I'm lucky, in the UK we don't have to swear allegiance to the state or the Monarchy :D . Although my school is still pretty strict, and tries to instill Christianity into school life (hymns, church in Christmas), but most people don't give a fuck. It's not a religious school either.
When I was younger I was a member of the Beavers (the junior Scouts type thing). We used to have ceremonies where someone would hold the Union Flag and we'd sing God Save the Queen and salute a picture of her. I remember it being a big honour to hold the flag.

Just saying that makes me feel dirty :(

afrikaNOW
12th November 2006, 06:13
Leaders Do Not Want to Recite Loyalty to God or Government

Associated Press Report

LOS ANGELES (Nov. 11) - Student leaders at a California college have
touched off a furor by banning the Pledge of Allegiance at their
meetings, saying they see no reason to publicly swear loyalty to God and
the U.S. government.

The move by Orange Coast College student trustees, the latest clash over
patriotism and religion in American schools, has infuriated some of
their classmates -- prompting one young woman to loudly recite the
pledge in front of the board on Wednesday night in defiance of the rule.

"America is the one thing I'm passionate about and I can't let them take
that away from me," 18-year-old political science major Christine Zoldos
told Reuters.

"The fact that they have enough power to ban one of the most valued
traditions in America is just horrible," Zoldos said, adding she would
attend every board meeting to salute the flag.

The move was led by three recently elected student trustees, who ran for
office wearing revolutionary-style berets and said they do not believe
in publicly swearing an oath to the American flag and government at
their school. One student trustee voted against the measure, which does
not apply to other student groups or campus meetings.

The ban follows a 2002 ruling by a federal appeals court in San
Francisco that said forcing school children to recite the pledge was
unconstitutional because of the phrase "under God." The U.S. Supreme
Court struck down the ruling on procedural grounds but left the door
open for another challenge.

"That ('under God') part is sort of offensive to me," student trustee
Jason Ball, who proposed the ban, told Reuters. "I am an atheist and a
socialist, and if you know your history, you know that 'under God' was
inserted during the McCarthy era and was directly designed to destroy my
ideology."

Ball said the ban largely came about because the trustees didn't want to
publicly vow loyalty to the American government before their meetings.
"Loyalty ought to be something the government earns through performance,
not through reciting a pledge," he said.

Martha Parham, a spokeswoman for the Coast Community College District,
said her office had no standing on the student board and took no
position on the flag salute ban.

"If their personal belief is that they don't want to say the Pledge of
Allegiance, the district certainly isn't going to dictate what they do,"
she said.

More than 28,000 students attend the community college, located in
conservative Orange County, California, south of Los Angeles.

Sophomore Chris Belanger, one of several students who attended the
meeting to support keeping the pledge, waved an American flag and
accused the board of "radical views and anti-Americanism."

Nothing Human Is Alien
12th November 2006, 08:30
There was a just a post about this comrade. Look a few threads down.

Keyser
12th November 2006, 09:32
Good to hear this, it is not often people hear of good news coming from the US these days.

afrikaNOW
12th November 2006, 18:44
Oh, i didnt see it, even tho i checked to see if it was posted already.

Janus
12th November 2006, 20:37
Merged.

renegade_Storey
12th November 2006, 22:54
legally they're not allowed to force you to stand. if they want to take you to court just go and tell them the truth. you hate the country (like me) and you don't want to be forced to do anything like make a pledge to a dumbass flag. if they say anything just tell them they're a bunch of dictators forcing you into a slavery that you don't like and is against your beliefs. if all goes well (and if not. someone else will get the message and fight for that cause) you'll be "free" to go. but the chances of anyone taking you to court for that are like imposible because they're pansies and don't stand up for what they believe.

oh well. im not complaining. :)

MrDoom
12th November 2006, 23:07
This is great.

Far too many students stand up simply because they're told to by an intercomm, not fully grasping that there are alternatives.

bezdomni
12th November 2006, 23:22
I get shit every monday for not standing for the pledge.

The rest of the week, nobody really cares.

It's strange.

Brekisonphilous
13th November 2006, 01:23
I don't see how supressing individuals rights to say the pledge, or anything else for that matter, is a good thing.

When we say the pledge at school everyday in gov. pol. AP, I stand but say nothing, while looking away from the flag. If anyone says anything to me about not saying it aloud, I tell them the only reason that I stand is for the liberties granted to me in the constitution.

renegade_Storey
13th November 2006, 02:38
i just don't stand at all.
kind of like a leftist rosa parks thing you know?
besides, i really hate how were tought in school to love the government.

also, why is it they force us not to say anything relegious in school but were forced to say "under god?" :huh: :angry:

afrikaNOW
13th November 2006, 05:30
Originally posted by [email protected] 13, 2006 02:38 am
i just don't stand at all.
kind of like a leftist rosa parks thing you know?
besides, i really hate how were tought in school to love the government.

also, why is it they force us not to say anything relegious in school but were forced to say "under god?" :huh: :angry:
Its nothing like rosa parks, dont ever compare that to the actions of rosa parks.

thank you.

armedpoet
13th November 2006, 12:09
A friend's son was suspeneded here in Australia for refusing to sing the national anthem - not as bad as the pledge but still fucked up. He stood up and turned his back.

My friend being an old anarchist congratulated him and bought him a case of beer.

:)

kaaos_af
13th November 2006, 13:05
Yeah, I never sang the National Anthem. Couldn't remember the words anyway. Got suspended once.

Rollo
13th November 2006, 13:09
I never got suspended for not singing the national anthem. I've been yelled at and called un australian to which I replied " thank you". Did get some detention time tho.

Emperor Ronald Reagan
13th November 2006, 20:00
The consequences of not standing for the pledge across many high schools in an imperialist state: Physical violence and intimidation!

Video: http://nyc.indymedia.org/usermedia/video/4...airincident.wmv (http://nyc.indymedia.org/usermedia/video/4/142188_mantel-chairincident.wmv)



Originally posted by IndyMedia
Teacher caught on tape pulling chair from under student refusing to stand for national anthem

The class started out that morning with Mantel yelling, "I don't want to hear a sound! Not a sound! Morning exercises will come on, you will stand, you will stand quietly, you will pay attention! Any Questions? ...Now stand up and keep your mouths shut!" Students stood up as the national anthem began playing.

In the middle of the anthem, Mantel walked over to Jay and demanded that he stand up. Jay silently refused, and Mantel yelled again, "Stand up!". Jay then said "I don't have to stand up". To which Mantel insisted "You have to stand." Jay said "No I don't". Mantel then reached over and pulled Jay's chair out from under him. Jay responded to Stuart Mantel's outrageous behavior by asking Mantel, "Are you serious?", to which Mantel yelled, "I am damn well serious."

...

"The teacher and school principals wanted him (Mantel) to press charges against us...they tried to blame it on us like it was premeditated, like we did it just to get him on tape, which is false. We knew he was gonna go nuts because he frequently used to," said Corey [the student who filmed the incident].


Incredibly, Mantel remained unpunished for his abusive actions, while the student who filmed the incident was suspended 10 days for "violating the teacher's constitutional rights."

Nothing Human Is Alien
13th November 2006, 20:34
It's clearly fucked up, but I don't find it incredible at all. In fact, it's about par for the course.