A new war looming over Somalia

[Dimentio]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...6102700278.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/27/AR2006102700278.html)

It is really funny that while in 1936, which most people find outdated and grey today [because everything was black and white around then of course], people could engage themselves in such complicated and complex ideologies as marxism-leninism, anarchism and fascism and then reach the conclusion that they had to beat the hell out of each-other, while nowadays, we are seeing a conflict between two stone-age like factions in Somalia. :P

The two factions are respectively the internationally recognised government in Baidoa, backed up by Ethiopia, Yemen and Kenya, and the Islamic Courts Union. The government is based upon the traditional tribal system in Somalia, and controls Baidoa, Jubaland and Puntland [nomally]. The IUC controls Mogadishu and most of traditional Somalia, and is backed up by Libya, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Iran and most of all Eritrea, which are delivering weapons and personnel in an arms race where different countries are delivering different equipment and units. The IUC are of course islamists.

It looks as a regional test out for the weapons which in one decade [or significantly less] would be utilised in the middle eastern theater of the third world war, much like Spain was utilised as a testing ground for USSR, Italy and Grossdeutsches Reich.

What do you think?

[grove street]

The current internationaly recognised government are really nothing but U.S backed warlords who have done nothing to improve Somalia. The militants on the other hand have already started setting up social programes and investing money into infastructure.

Be careful about what you read or hear in the western media because they will only focus on the Islamic side of the militants and make a big fuss about how women are know forced to wear head scarfes although they were already wearing them before the militants.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

The whole disaster in the region is a direct result of Washington's meddling and the counter revolution carried out from the late 70s to the early 90s.

[Keyser]

The whole disaster in the region is a direct result of Washington's meddling and the counter revolution carried out from the late 70s to the early 90s.

True, the interventions by both Soviet and US imperialism caused much damage to that region, given the Horn of Africa was used as a proxy theatre for the Cold War.

But I do not see how there was any form of 'counter revolution' in the Horn of Africa. Both Ethiopia and Somalia were ruled by autocratic, bloody, corrupt military regimes, both of which made assertions at times that they were socialist, but only due to them wanting to get Soviet arms to fuel their respective war machines.

Sadly, there has never been any form of socialism or any form of workers revolution in the Horn of Africa.

[Dimentio]

I know that the internationally recognised government is composed of warlords, tribal leaders, cleptocrats and reactionaries. But the IUC militiamen are not even remotely progressive. Islamism and nationalism are hierarchic concepts utilised by the middle class in order to reestablish a Somali nation-state under Shar'ia.

I do not support either.

[Guerrilla22]

The CIA is currently there arming the faction that is in oppisition to the islamist faction. More US funded hell for the Somali people.

[Janus]

It's possible that the civil war will escalate but right now, no faction can gain full control over any large area much less the whole of Somalia so I don't think that we'll see all-out civil war just yet.

[Nothing Human Is Alien]

True, the interventions by both Soviet and US imperialism caused much damage to that region, given the Horn of Africa was used as a proxy theatre for the Cold War.

There's no such thing as "Soviet imperialism". Learn what imperialism is before you throw the word around.

There were revolutionary movements in the Horn of Africa that were aided in part by socialist and bureaucratic socialist countries. Condemning that aid is like arguing against world revolution.


But I do not see how there was any form of 'counter revolution' in the Horn of Africa. Both Ethiopia and Somalia were ruled by autocratic, bloody, corrupt military regimes, both of which made assertions at times that they were socialist, but only due to them wanting to get Soviet arms to fuel their respective war machines.

You don't see how because you're completely ignorant to the situation. There were authentically movements in Somalia and Ethiopia that carried out land reform, nationalizations, and moved to break free from the choke hold of imperialism. They launched massive education and medical campaigns that bettered the lives of millions of people.


Sadly, there has never been any form of socialism or any form of workers revolution in the Horn of Africa.

Yeah, but no worries, one day soon the magical "leaderless," "spontaneous" revolutionary will occur and it will be free of imperfections! It will immediately abolish class antagonisms and the Horn of Africa will be a communist paradise.

[Keyser]

There's no such thing as "Soviet imperialism". Learn what imperialism is before you throw the word around.

Wrong.

The Soviet Union, like the USA, invaded and intervened in nations to protect it's own geo-political interests and to shore up it's position as a military superpower via the installation of pro-Soviet regimes on it's borders and elsewhere that the Soviet leadership thought of as being beneficial to it's status as a military superpower.

It is so clear to see that the Soviet Union only talked about 'proletarian internationalism' as a cover to it's real aim of ruling over half of Europe and having an array of friendly and allied nations across the world to shore up it's own power in the Soviet Union's attempt and efforts to stay ahead of the USA and it's allies.

The Soviet Union in the 1970s was no workers state, no socialist state and was not even going to lift a finger in any efforts to advance towards communism.


You don't see how because you're completely ignorant to the situation.

Says CDL, who somehow concludes that Colonel Megitsu's bloodthirsty tyranny was somehow socialist and that the Soviet Union intervened in the Horn of Africa to liberate the oppressed rural and working classes of Ethiopia and Somalia.

Unlike Mengitsu, I don't even know how you can conclude that Said Barre (Somalian dictator 1969-1991) was in any way socialist. Said Barre's switch from being pro-Soviet to pro-US in 1977 in order to get more military supplies just backs up my point that both dictators made a few speeches to proclaim themselves socialist in order to get access to Soviet arms.

Mengitsu did the same in 1989, after it became apparant to him that the Soviet Union was a lost cause, he then went over to Italy, Israel and the USA in a last ditch attempt to get more arms to try and save his regime, by then in the process of collapse.


There were authentically movements in Somalia and Ethiopia that carried out land reform, nationalizations, and moved to break free from the choke hold of imperialism. They launched massive education and medical campaigns that bettered the lives of millions of people.

Many dictatorships have carried out public work projects and have generally improved the economic living standards of their people. Stalin (no socialist himself) however did make the average Russian better off by the time his rule ended in 1953. Hitler improved the living conditions of the average person (as long as you were not a jew/homosexual/leftist etc...) and so did Saddam Hussien in Iraq.

The point is improving living conditions in and by itself is not socialism and no where near communism. At best it's social democracy. Socialism is the working class taking the means of production into it's own hands, not allowing the means of production to be taken over by some unnacountable state, which is just state capitalism (which is what the Soviet Union was).

I'm not disputing the fact there were no genuine grassroots workers and peasant movements in the Horn of Africa, just that any such movements never had any say nor did they partake in the ruling military state capitalist regimes in the Horn of Africa.


Yeah, but no worries, one day soon the magical "leaderless," "spontaneous" revolutionary will occur and it will be free of imperfections! It will immediately abolish class antagonisms and the Horn of Africa will be a communist paradise.

And your doubting that one day such a development will occur?

Well thats your problem that for whatever reason your are starting to lose faith in the working class and instead start swallowing the 'end of history' BS that the capitalist media and acedemia spew out.

If you doubt that people have the ability to live and build a society without leaders and any need for a state, why are you here, if you think communism is an impossible goal?

Or are you implying that Africa is a special case and that Africans are unable to organise by themselves due to their 'backwardness'? I'm not accusing you of this, but since you did not elaborate there, just explain why you think that.

[ComradeOm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2006 10:48 pm
It looks as a regional test out for the weapons which in one decade [or significantly less] would be utilised in the middle eastern theater of the third world war, much like Spain was utilised as a testing ground for USSR, Italy and Grossdeutsches Reich.

What do you think?
This is the only element of the current situation that is remotely SCW like... and its wrong. The various parties in Somalia are being supplied by the outside world with the likes of AKs, RPGs etc. There will be no new weapon or tactics tested. As always the staple of African warfare will remain the rifle and Technical.

[Guerrilla22]

Yeah, I don't think we can compare the situation to Somalia to that of Spain in the late 30's. Its factional, warlord fighting, with some factions (those opposed to the Islamist faction) being heavily armed with Soviet era weapons and funds from the US. Its clear the US government would be satisfied if all of Somalai was wiped out in fighting, rather than a regime come to power that would be unfriendly towards the uS government.