The Democrats are NOT our saviors

[pauljpoposky]

1

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2006 02:17 pm
oh please do remember that the Democratic Party is nothing more than the "liberal" front for capitalism.
It's not a front for capitalism - it's just plain capitalist. A face, not a mask.


Several independent poll results released just prior to and since election day show that the overwhelming majority of those polled want President Bush impeached. This one at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904/ shows 87% taking this stance.

Oh please. That's not a random sample, it's a web poll of whoever bothers to vote in it. Means nothing.


However, since election day Democrat Representatives John Conyers and incoming Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, as well as Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean have all publically stated in recent weeks that impeachement is "off the table". Looks like the Downingstreet Memo will continue to be ignored by the same "progressives" and "liberals" who voted FOR the war, FOR the Patriot Act and FOR a general amnesty for members of the Bush admin.

Why would you want those people to impeach Bush, then? If you've noticed the Republicans losing an election of Democrats is not a step forward, why would you think the Republicans being impeached by the Democrats is?


The Democtratic Party has most certainly capitalized from the mass actions, efforts and agitation of both Socialist organizations and the 9/11 Truth movement.

No, they can't capitulate from what they've never been part of.

And "the 9/11 Truth movement"? There's nothing progressive about conspiracy theories, and the worldview that explains everything by means of conspiracies. They pretend the wars and devastation produced by the normal workings of they system - are not produced by the system. Instead, by plots of individuals subverting the system.

There's a reason why they've always been the stock-in-trade of radical ultraright movements, including fascists. The promotion of these ideas takes people away from the working-class movement and towards fascist and other ultraright groups who are the most rabid and violent enemies of the working class.

http://www.publiceye.org/tooclose/conspiracism-07.html]More about the problems with the conspiracy-based worldview.://http://www.publiceye.org/tooclose/c...ased worldview. (http://www.publiceye.org/tooclose/conspiracism-07.html)

[Black Dagger]

Is this a call for a specific event... or is this meant to be propangda? o0

[pauljpoposky]

3

[Gura]

Originally posted by [email protected] 11, 2006 08:17 pm
oh please do remember that the Democratic Party is nothing more than the "liberal" front for capitalism.
It's not a front. The Democratic Party is an openly capitalist party. They've never pretended to be anything other, and they have absolutely no desire to be associated with socialism.


Democrats will NOT usher us into a new era of socialism.
Was I out to lunch when they announced they would?


Several independent poll results released just prior to and since election day show that the overwhelming majority of those polled want President Bush impeached. This one at http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10562904/ shows 87% taking this stance.
Internet polls are skewed toward those who A) get their news on the Internet, B) take time to answer poll questions, C) Feel strongly about an issue. They may also have voted more than once, as you can often do in these polls.


However, since election day Democrat Representatives John Conyers and incoming Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi, as well as Democratic Party Chairman Howard Dean have all publically stated in recent weeks that impeachement is "off the table".
Actually, they were saying that before the election too.


The Democtratic Party has most certainly capitalized from the mass actions, efforts and agitation of both Socialist organizations and the 9/11 Truth movement.
It's not so much that they've capitalised as that these organizations have supported the Democrats. "Capitalized from the mass actions..." implies that they used what wasn't support for the party to their advantage.


Now Nancy Pelosi has publically stated that there will be NO independent public inquiry into the events of 9/11/06, NO investigation in Iraq and again, NO impeachment for Bush and his administration.
Aside from wondering what happened on 9/11/06...is this really surprising? Let's assume that there was a coverup after 9/11 (of anything, whether incompetance or negligence or involvement by the intelligence community). How in the world could the party even hold hearings on such an issue. And even a hypothetical report issued by a hypothetical committee investigating a hypothetical coverup could probably not be released for several decades.


yet the supposedly leftist, progressive, "party of the people" is doing absolutely NOTHING to bring these criminals to justice.
Again, since when has the Democratic Party cast themselves as "leftist"? The party does not want to be associated with socialists and communists and anarchists.


I say we stop wasting our time and effort playing their game by trying to hold Democrats responsible to the people and instead we play our own game and take the fight to both the Democrats AND the Republicans.
It's not really about "tak[ing] the fight to both the Democrats and the Republicans", it's about taking the fight to capitalism. Both parties are the result of capitalism, not the creators of it. Do they have to be done away with? Of course. But if it's cast as taking the fight to two parties, then all you end up with is a third party.


I hereby call for mass resistance to the Neo-fascist Republi-Crat agenda and a general boycott of not only the election results, but of the election itself, until such a time as we have established truely open democracy in this nation and have the opportunity to elect representatives whose interests lie with the people, not in the banks, in the market, at the altar or in smoke-filled masonic halls behind closed doors.
You have to get rid of the banks and the market before you can elect true representatives. Even if you elect people who are not in the beginning under the control of corporations, they will become so eventually because politics is about getting elected, and you need money to get elected. The capitalist political system does not make exceptions. Either you play the game or you don't get to be in power.

[Nilats]

Originally posted by Black [email protected] 12, 2006 05:20 am
Is this a call for a specific event... or is this meant to be propangda? o0
I think that&#39;s a bit slanted and bias.... <_<

[pauljpoposky]

2

[nancyhutto]

It is a step towards the reduction of the imperialist oppression of the worker. Perhaps, it is only a step, but maybe a living wage and greater healthcare availability for more workers may be down the road. Though, there is a long way to go&#33;

Just prior to the election, myself and thousands of my fellow alums at Baylor were dancing around the clock for peace and we will be dancing until the imperialists lose their control in January. Hopefully, that peace will include better conditions for all workers.

Nancy Hutto

[Severian]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 08:47 am
It is a step towards the reduction of the imperialist oppression of the worker. Perhaps, it is only a step, but maybe a living wage and greater healthcare availability for more workers may be down the road.
How do you figure that? Clinton invaded more countries and cut more social programs than Bush has. I could give a lot more examples.

It doesn&#39;t matter who&#39;s in office - it matters how much pressure they&#39;re under. Because so many people have illusions in the Democrats, often they can get away with more.