The Youth

[Sir_No_Sir]

The youth is by far the most oppressed roup in america today. In any industrial world, really. We canot vote, yet we must go to schools on busses that the government paid for and listen to the teachers that the government has paid its salary for. Do we get any say whatsoever about how our schools work? Of course not. At least workers can usually try to strike, or they can bargain witht the osses for change. Teachers can. Students cannot. We cant ask for longer or shorter hours, a teacher to be fired even if they canot teach for crap. e are forced to live under our parents unless we take it to court, and in that case, the court would probably find no "legitimate cause" to free us. We cant even work. We cant fucking work to get money to buy stuff we want or need. At 14, you need to go terhough mountains of paperowkr to get a fucking workers permit, and then we can only work certain hours. Bullshit? YES!

I wana know waht your guys thoughts are on our role in the revolution.

[Forward Union]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2006 11:57 am
The youth is by far the most oppressed roup in america today. In any industrial world, really. We canot vote, yet we must go to schools on busses that the government paid for and listen to the teachers that the government has paid its salary for. Do we get any say whatsoever about how our schools work? Of course not. At least workers can usually try to strike, or they can bargain witht the osses for change. Teachers can. Students cannot. We cant ask for longer or shorter hours, a teacher to be fired even if they canot teach for crap. e are forced to live under our parents unless we take it to court, and in that case, the court would probably find no "legitimate cause" to free us. We cant even work. We cant fucking work to get money to buy stuff we want or need. At 14, you need to go terhough mountains of paperowkr to get a fucking workers permit, and then we can only work certain hours. Bullshit? YES!

I wana know waht your guys thoughts are on our role in the revolution.
Well, most people don't complain about the fact that they don't have to work :lol: , but the morality behind that is bullshit, yes. I know I felt mentally developed enough at 14, to smoke, drink and engage in sexual acts, so I did. And im no worse off than I would have been if I had stuck to the law.

But I disagree with you that students have no form of leverage or ability to strike, They do. There are student unions, and though they normally apply to college/uni students, they are equally important in secondary school.

One example, when I was at school, they tried to introduce a colour-coding system, ranking how stupid or smart you were. Green being smart, yellow being average, orange being dumb, purple being a a complete failure etc. we all had to wear a badge displaying our colour. Instantly alarm bells went off in most peoples heads that, this is simply insulting, a way of shaming the non-academics and subjecting them to embarrassment. We spontaneously refused to wear them, threw them away, swapped them etc. And within days the system was gone.

Ok that's hardly the revolution, but it was a form of resistance organised by 13 year olds. Similar things can be done in terms of getting a teacher sacked or abolishing school uniform or whatever.

All you need to do is get a group of students willing to walk out of lessons, disrupt lessons, hand out leaflets or whatever. If a group of more than 20 students refuse to conform to something, the school is generally powerless to confront it. You'd be surprised how easy it is. I recommend you print of a hundred leaflets giving a time/place for a meeting (inside school) see who turns up, have a discussion on what you want to change, then draw up plans for doing it. If you want any more help from here, just ask. :)

[RedLenin]

I don't necessarily think the youth is more oppressed than the average worker, we are just oppressed differently. Since our birth until the day we graduate from high school we are mercilessly indoctrinated into the capitalist system and trained to be obedient wage-slaves. We have no rights and are little more than clay that the bourgeois government can freely mold into a workforce. However, we are not dependent on our labor to surive. This is what seperates the worker from the youth. So even though we are being mercilessly indoctrinated, in most cases we do not have to sell our labor to survive. That is what they are training us for. So the oppression of youth and workers are intrinsically linked and basically occur to the same degree, but they are different.

And yes, students can make a difference. Civil disobedience is a very effective tactic that can be utilized by students. They can take everything from you and possess everything: except your obedience. My suggestion would be to find a few people who think the same way as you and form a group. Once you have such a group you can take action and influence the rest of the student body.

[ahab]

Originally posted by Love [email protected] 09, 2006 01:43 pm


But I disagree with you that students have no form of leverage or ability to strike, They do. There are student unions, and though they normally apply to college/uni students, they are equally important in secondary school.

One example, when I was at school, they tried to introduce a colour-coding system, ranking how stupid or smart you were. Green being smart, yellow being average, orange being dumb, purple being a a complete failure etc. we all had to wear a badge displaying our colour. Instantly alarm bells went off in most peoples heads that, this is simply insulting, a way of shaming the non-academics and subjecting them to embarrassment. We spontaneously refused to wear them, threw them away, swapped them etc. And within days the system was gone.


man i wish i could go to your kind of school, anytime i've been in a walk out or strike at school and the one time i've organised one i've gotten suspended, arrested and finally expelled. Whenever i see someone standing up to the school administration they usually get in big trouble and the police back up whatever the school has to say.

youth oppression is far more mental than physical i think, and so much that most youth, at least here in the states it seems, dont even realize it. They think that whenever they are in trouble of doing something that it is because they are truly wrong, school especially. The 12+ years of brainwashing you receive in lower education (excluding college) is just to turn you into the working machine they want you to be, that way when you do reach adulthood and go off to work in the mainstream you dont feel as oppressed because that is the way you hav been taught to live.

[Sir_No_Sir]

I have an idea for any students who read this: the teachers set deadlines for us to finish assignmnts by. Why dont we set deadlines for us to get them back, and then fucking enforce it?
It sure as hell isnt socialist,communist, or anarchist, but its change, and rght now, i think it might be most important to change, and worry about ideologies later.

[Janus]

The youth is by far the most oppressed roup in america today
:lol: No, it's not and you really need to get out more if you think students are the most oppressed group.


I have an idea for any students who read this: the teachers set deadlines for us to finish assignmnts by. Why dont we set deadlines for us to get them back, and then fucking enforce it?
Sure, but unlike teachers, students have no way of enforcing this.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

No, we aren't the most repressed, we are however a revolutionary force for change

[phoenixoftime]

IMO, it is only a matter of time before Ageism is rooted out of society. Young people are a particularly easy target for poltiicans to blame things on, since they have virtually no political or economic power. They are also an easy target for employers, who can get away with paying them less wages for doing the same job as someone born earlier. It works the same way for older workers who are forced to give up work based on age. In some countries, people are denied even social welfare simply because of their age.

Here in NZ the youth movement has been steadily growing over the past few years. With politicians and the media constantly blaming problems on youth, young people are beginning to realize the discrimination. City-wide student strikes have occurred several times around the country, while I was involved in efforts to introduce democratic student representation into schools. An ultimate lack of organization has thwarted any real progress, however. Meanwhile, the unions over here have been leading the fight to abolish youth rates, with a huge number of workers from the youth-dominated retail and fast food industries being involved in industrial action.

[Outward Rebel]

Originally posted by Love [email protected] 09, 2006 01:43 pm

Well, most people don't complain about the fact that they don't have to work :lol: , but the morality behind that is bullshit, yes. I know I felt mentally developed enough at 14, to smoke, drink and engage in sexual acts, so I did.
You had sex when you were 14!!! Wow!!

lol :lol:

[Ol' Dirty]

The human brain is actually not fully developed until around the age of 25. We're in a very tender stage of developement at this time, and it is important that we express ourselves and seek help from other, possibly wiser adults.

Also, kids do some things that a more experienced adult wouldn't do, like drink, smoke, have unprotected sex, along with other things.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2006 08:54 pm
Also, kids do some things that a more experienced adult wouldn't do, like drink, smoke, have unprotected sex, along with other things.
Lame.

All kinds of adults (smart or not) smoke, drink, partake in unprotected sex, and do all sorts of crazy things.

[Ol' Dirty]

But the prefrontal cerebral cortex (the area of the brain responsible for decisionmaking) is less developed in the child that the adult, meaning that adults are less apt to peer pressure and impulsivity. Ask any major brain surgeon and they'll tell you the smae thing.

[Raisa]

Some youth arent kids though.

I didnt ***** about school when I was a kid because school was a diversion from my experiances of class and gender opression at home.....school was a gap of time from when I would know what was going on with my life different from the morning.
School aint shit.

There is free lunch in there. They brainwash some people, but for others who are more involved in a little struggle they just discourage us from giving a shit about education. Mental genocide.

[Sir_No_Sir]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 01:54 am
The human brain is actually not fully developed until around the age of 25. We're in a very tender stage of developement at this time, and it is important that we express ourselves and seek help from other, possibly wiser adults.

Also, kids do some things that a more experienced adult wouldn't do, like drink, smoke, have unprotected sex, along with other things.

The human brain is actually not fully developed until around the age of 25. We're in a very tender stage of developement at this time, and it is important that we express ourselves and seek help from other, possibly wiser adults.

Also, kids do some things that a more experienced adult wouldn't do, like drink, smoke, have unprotected sex, along with other things.
Then why is the age for everything at either 18 or 21?


I know more about whats going on then most. I can vote educated, if I chose too. If your gonna have a bullshit system can we at least have a say in how fucked up it is?

[Sir_No_Sir]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 07:02 am
Some youth arent kids though.

I didnt ***** about school when I was a kid because school was a diversion from my experiances of class and gender opression at home.....school was a gap of time from when I would know what was going on with my life different from the morning.
School aint shit.

There is free lunch in there. They brainwash some people, but for others who are more involved in a little struggle they just discourage us from giving a shit about education. Mental genocide.

Some youth arent kids though.

I didnt ***** about school when I was a kid because school was a diversion from my experiances of class and gender opression at home
In school, we have pigs with guns on em.


And almost noone in my school acts like a kid-I'd say 75% are just as mature as they will be as adults.

In schol, its stil oppression. Do this, do that, youll get expelled if you dont.
Thats school for ya.

[bcbm]

http://www.getfreedropout.tk/

[apathy maybe]

I haven't really read this thread, but it is on an issue that has bothered me for a while. Which group in society has absolutely no vote at all in "bourgeoisie elections"? Which group is legally oppressed and in some places can be forced to stay some where where they are not loved or love etc.? Which group in society has the least economic freedom?

I would tend to answer that generally young people (less then 18 or 16) are the most legally oppressed group. They have the least freedom and there are a number of regulations that target specifically this group (under age drinking, smoking, sex etc.). There are arbitrary age restrictions, which mean that intelligent people, who have quite strong views on society are not legally able to vote (even though they are citizens).

Young people earn less then adults for equivalent work, pay tax on their income (but again have no "representation"). They can not legally own such things as cars or houses.

I am sure some of what I have mentioned has been addressed above, but oh well. Yes there are oppressed groups in society, but of the citizens, young people are the most systematically oppressed.

(Please note, I am no longer in this age group and have not been for some years. However, it annoyed me no end then, and still does. Yes workers need a better deal, yes non-whites get a lot of shit, and so on. But systematic legal discrimination such as outlined above, only young people get that, at least in Australia.)

[nmlssone]

Originally posted by [email protected] 16, 2006 01:54 am
The human brain is actually not fully developed until around the age of 25. We're in a very tender stage of developement at this time, and it is important that we express ourselves and seek help from other, possibly wiser adults.

Also, kids do some things that a more experienced adult wouldn't do, like drink, smoke, have unprotected sex, along with other things.
Hey, hey! I got a crazy idea, how about we set the age of sexual consent, voting, drinking and driving at 200? That way we'll all be fucking dead before we do anything that might piss god off unless we're Adam or Eve whom the bible says lived to age 900+. =O

And "more expirenced adults" do all kinds of stupid shit all the time; why do you think the birthrate is the States is so high?

[black magick hustla]

Originally posted by black banner black [email protected] 16, 2006 03:47 pm
http://www.getfreedropout.tk/
arent you getting a history major

or did you already drop out

[Ol' Dirty]

Hey, hey! I got a crazy idea, how about we set the age of sexual consent, voting, drinking and driving at 200? That way we'll all be fucking dead before we do anything that might piss god off unless we're Adam or Eve whom the bible says lived to age 900+. =O

Calm down.


And "more expirenced adults" do all kinds of stupid shit all the time;

Of course. Kids are simply more prone to it. No need to get angsty about it. No pun intended.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by [email protected] 15, 2006 09:27 pm
But the prefrontal cerebral cortex (the area of the brain responsible for decisionmaking) is less developed in the child that the adult, meaning that adults are less apt to peer pressure and impulsivity. Ask any major brain surgeon and they'll tell you the smae thing.
Did you know that after around age 20 we start to lose brain cells?

Maybe we shouldn't let anyone make their own decisions. I say we leave all that up to the state, let them choose what's best for us.

Sounds like a good idea, eh?

[phoenixoftime]

Half the problem is people don't trust young people enough. I think that comes back to the education system - schools simply don't have effective training in self-discipline, respect, leadership and responsibility. I know a lot of very mature young people - most of them got that way by being *trained* to act like adults.


All you need to do is get a group of students willing to walk out of lessons, disrupt lessons, hand out leaflets or whatever.

It isn't as easy as it sounds. In my experience, schools have dished out punishments for striking, banned political gatherings, rigged student elections, censored student press and have even gone as far as legal action (or sometime illegal action - I had a friend who was spied on, to the point of intercepting private e-mails and sending e-mails in his name).

The most important thing, and often the biggest challenge, is organization. Any sort of action is going to require logistics, planning and strategy. Once you get to the stage of big demonstrations, you need the ship to be running with military precision, so get it right early. If you're working within an oppressive school / college, this becomes essential much quicker. Put in place a clear chain of command, delegate specific roles and develop the systems to get work done quicker and more efficiently.

Oh, and make sure you get people informed. I once took part in a 1000-strong strike where 90% of the people didn't know what they were striking about - not a good look ;-).

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Marmot+November 18, 2006 06:45 pm--> (Marmot @ November 18, 2006 06:45 pm)
black banner black [email protected] 16, 2006 03:47 pm
http://www.getfreedropout.tk/
arent you getting a history major

or did you already drop out [/b]
I'm doing a liberal arts transfer program right now and am planning to take some years off before going to actual university, if I do go to actual university. But I think that is a good site dealing with youth issues.

[cenv]

Originally posted by FoB+November 19, 2006 04:49 am--> (FoB @ November 19, 2006 04:49 am)
[email protected] 15, 2006 09:27 pm
But the prefrontal cerebral cortex (the area of the brain responsible for decisionmaking) is less developed in the child that the adult, meaning that adults are less apt to peer pressure and impulsivity. Ask any major brain surgeon and they'll tell you the smae thing.
Did you know that after around age 20 we start to lose brain cells?

Maybe we shouldn't let anyone make their own decisions. I say we leave all that up to the state, let them choose what's best for us.

Sounds like a good idea, eh? [/b]
Nah, the state is comprised of people. I say we code a program that randomly selects courses of action for various inputs. That way no one has to worry about making decisions, and no one ends up complaining about other people making bad decisions because all decisions are totally random. Now that sounds like a good idea, hmm?

[luxemburg89]

I'm sorry to seem ignorant - what is the legal voting age in the United States. It's 18 here in Britain.

[which doctor]

18.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Originally posted by black banner black [email protected] 16, 2006 03:47 pm
http://www.getfreedropout.tk/
Lame.

[which doctor]

http://www.impassionedinsurrection.info/yo.../YLF/index.html (http://www.impassionedinsurrection.info/youthliberation/YLF/index.html)

[bcbm]

Lame.

Elaborate.


http://www.impassionedinsurrection.info/yo.../YLF/index.html

Do you know Yoshomon too?

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by RedStar1916+November 27, 2006 02:12 am--> (RedStar1916 @ November 27, 2006 02:12 am)
black banner black [email protected] 16, 2006 03:47 pm
http://www.getfreedropout.tk/
Lame. [/b]
Why is it lame?

[Guerrilla22]

The youth is by far the most oppressed roup in america today

Not even close, gays are.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 11:23 am

The youth is by far the most oppressed roup in america today

Not even close, gays are.
That's a debatable claim, although I find the "my pain is worse than your pain" argument to be somewhat stupid, to say the least.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Elaborate.
Maybe I am missing the point of this or something, but I don't see how abandoning education is going to "free" us. It is simply going to leave us in poverty, and without any influence in society.

[SanPatricio'sSoul]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 05:23 pm

The youth is by far the most oppressed roup in america today

Not even close, gays are.
Young Black Lesbian Muslims, most oppressed?

[which doctor]

Originally posted by black banner black [email protected] 27, 2006 12:55 am

http://www.impassionedinsurrection.info/yo.../YLF/index.html

Do you know Yoshomon too?
No, no clue who they hell Yoshomon is, but I do love Impassioned Insurrection.

[Black Dagger]

Originally posted by SanPatricio'sSoul+November 28, 2006 10:30 am--> (SanPatricio'sSoul @ November 28, 2006 10:30 am)
[email protected] 27, 2006 05:23 pm

The youth is by far the most oppressed roup in america today

Not even close, gays are.
Young Black Lesbian Muslims, most oppressed? [/b]
I think it is quite apparent that racist oppression is most pressing in society today (though this is debate is certainly is bad taste as BBBG pointed out). You can hide your sexuality, but you cannot hide your skin colour, and racism is something that effects both women and men.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 27, 2006 06:26 pm
Maybe I am missing the point of this or something, but I don't see how abandoning education is going to "free" us. It is simply going to leave us in poverty, and without any influence in society.
Dropping out of the public school system has fuckall to do with abandoning education. One needn't attend "preping you to be a wage-slave" public institutions to receive an education. Indeed, one can probably get a better education on their own.

As for "leaving us in poverty," uh, most of the world lives in poverty and the people who are ultimately going to overthrow this mess of a society aren't going to be sipping champagne and eating caviar. I don't see why we should want to play by their rules and make good money by holding a decent, steady job in order to "influence" the society we want to destroy.


No, no clue who they hell Yoshomon is, but I do love Impassioned Insurrection.

Yoshomon runs Impassioned Insurrection, and Get Free, Drop Out. Great guy.

[Ultra-Violence]

Maybe I am missing the point of this or something, but I don't see how abandoning education is going to "free" us. It is simply going to leave us in poverty, and without any influence in society.


SCHOOL IS A WASTE OF TIME! i learn about fucking nothing i dont get a goddamm education! i feel so how do you say it..... fucking bored out of my mind if i actuaclly got a nice education like the freaking rich kids and those assholes at charter schools maybe it wouldnt be so bad! WE SPENT LIKE 3 MONTHS READING CAMU!it doesnt take that long but half of the kids in my class can FREAKING READ! THAT IS SAD :o So by me dropping out doesnt me im goanna be poor thats a freaking myth that those fat cats want you to beleive but what do most people go to college TO GET A JOB! WHY NOT Learn for the sake of learning about waht you want. so will that make me any differnt from some one who went to school hell NO! im just as capable as them and no just as much cuase i "personaly love to READ" .....any ways srry bout the rant but school is fucking stupid we should blow this institution and everyfucking other one shit!

If redstar2000 website was still running who would explain it much better

if you read my post and survive you get a free hug from me :D

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 28, 2006 05:43 am
Working class youths are oppressed.. rich kids are not.
Why aren't they?

[bcbm]

Originally posted by Compañ[email protected] 28, 2006 08:55 am
Are you fucking kidding me?
But CDL, rich kids suffer from the oppression of curfew, not being able to vote and not being able to go to bars just like poor kids!




<_<

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Dropping out of the public school system has fuckall to do with abandoning education. One needn&#39;t attend "preping you to be a wage-slave" public institutions to receive an education. Indeed, one can probably get a better education on their own.
Without the help of schools, colleges and universities it is going to be very hard for anyone to acquire the skills necessary to become engineers, doctors, architects, chemists, researchers etc.


As for "leaving us in poverty," uh, most of the world lives in poverty and the people who are ultimately going to overthrow this mess of a society aren&#39;t going to be sipping champagne and eating caviar. I don&#39;t see why we should want to play by their rules and make good money by holding a decent, steady job in order to "influence" the society we want to destroy.
Education does not equal "sipping champagne and eating caviar". If it seems to you that too many educated people are doing this, then I believe your problem should be with whatever institution allows the educated to indulge like this, not with education itself.

Also, I don&#39;t support education on the grounds that it allows you to make more money than others. I support it on the grounds that it teaches you the skills necessary to contribute to society in whatever way suits you and/or society best.

[luxemburg89]

Does this topic apply to oppressed youth in the U.S. only? Because I&#39;d say in Britain the youth aren&#39;t oppressed or repressed as such - just ignored.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2006 10:34 am
Without the help of schools, colleges and universities it is going to be very hard for anyone to acquire the skills necessary to become engineers, doctors, architects, chemists, researchers etc.
Well, apprenticeship programs, that is, actually working with someone holding that profession, can be useful in teaching many of those skills. Obviously some things you need to go to school for, I agree, but the vast majority of people are not going to become any of those things.


Education does not equal "sipping champagne and eating caviar". If it seems to you that too many educated people are doing this, then I believe your problem should be with whatever institution allows the educated to indulge like this, not with education itself.

I was referring to your comment about people without education being left in poverty. As I said, most of the world lives in poverty and doesn&#39;t have access to education. I never said I had a problem with getting an education, merely that I hold nothing against those who would choose to drop out, as the school system can be extremely oppressive and restrictive to some individuals.


Also, I don&#39;t support education on the grounds that it allows you to make more money than others. I support it on the grounds that it teaches you the skills necessary to contribute to society in whatever way suits you and/or society best.

Why would you want people to contribute to bourgeois society? And, again, I was just working off your comment about poverty.

[TC]

Minors face the most severe social/legal repression of any group in western society, perhaps apart from convicts and mental patients.

All laws that take away civil and human rights from people under an age of majority or a particular age are reactionary and oppressive and should be opposed by communists not appologized for with psudo-scientific notions of &#39;brain development&#39; when everyone knows that even if there are different average levels of mental maturity between population groups, there are greater degrees of variation among individuals and are absolutely irrelevant to questions of rights and liberties. These types of b.s. arguments didn&#39;t work for justifying the legal repression of women and blacks and it doesn&#39;t work for justifying the legal repression of children.

Communism calls for the destruction of the family and emancipation of youth.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

Well, apprenticeship programs, that is, actually working with someone holding that profession, can be useful in teaching many of those skills. Obviously some things you need to go to school for, I agree, but the vast majority of people are not going to become any of those things.
I haven&#39;t had any immediate involvement with any such programs, I don&#39;t have any doubt they can be very useful in teaching a trade, however I think the theory behind the trades would be better learned in school.


I was referring to your comment about people without education being left in poverty. As I said, most of the world lives in poverty and doesn&#39;t have access to education. I never said I had a problem with getting an education, merely that I hold nothing against those who would choose to drop out, as the school system can be extremely oppressive and restrictive to some individuals.
Oh, indeed. I must state that I certainly have no problem with any individual dropping out of school once they have received a certain amount of education and/or are of a certain maturity level, and pursuing interests outside the education system. However, to me this website seems to communicate the idea that dropping out of school is inherently good, and therefore that staying in school is inherently bad. This is the point with which I disagree.


Why would you want people to contribute to bourgeois society?
It&#39;s not bourgeois society I would want them to contribute to as such; it&#39;s society in general, civilization, humanity. The professions I mentioned earlier will be needed just as much if not moreso in a Communist society, and it&#39;s going to be very hard to educate a society in these trades completely from scratch.

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Its hard to say either way, because it is known that kids are less independant, and if a friend smokes, they will follow. And their bodys arent fully developed so drinking at their age is worse for them. So some restrictions are essential. But the vote, is a tricky one. I (14) have strong political beliefs, but others dont know the left from the right, so they would copy friends, or family, and could easily be mis led. So i am still undisided on this.

[TC]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2006 06:10 pm
Its hard to say either way, because it is known that kids are less independant, and if a friend smokes, they will follow. And their bodys arent fully developed so drinking at their age is worse for them. So some restrictions are essential. But the vote, is a tricky one. I (14) have strong political beliefs, but others dont know the left from the right, so they would copy friends, or family, and could easily be mis led. So i am still undisided on this.
what useless reactionary propaganda.

To argue that rights with regard to alcohol should coorespond to physical alcohol tolerance is absurd...a 25 year old 80 lb female will get drunk faster than a 15 year old 200 lb muscular male with low body fat percentage, but you would of course not argue that women or small people ought to lose their rights to consume alcohol...this is because repressive discrimination on the basis of age is so widespread and total in society with few visible dissenting views that you see it as almost natural or acceptable, whereas this is much less the case with discrimination on the basis of sex (or almost anything else for that matter).

Likewise the notion that kids are going to do things because their friends do and therefore they shouldn&#39;t be allowed to do those things at all, is quite absurd as its also well known that adults are influenced by their friends tastes and preferences and are easily misled. Political beliefs and personal practices are strongly coorellated with those of ones peer group regardless of age, but in any case its irrelevent to questions of rights and civil liberties.

[RevMARKSman]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2006 12:51 pm
Minors face the most severe social/legal repression of any group in western society, perhaps apart from convicts and mental patients.

All laws that take away civil and human rights from people under an age of majority or a particular age are reactionary and oppressive and should be opposed by communists not appologized for with psudo-scientific notions of &#39;brain development&#39; when everyone knows that even if there are different average levels of mental maturity between population groups, there are greater degrees of variation among individuals and are absolutely irrelevant to questions of rights and liberties. These types of b.s. arguments didn&#39;t work for justifying the legal repression of women and blacks and it doesn&#39;t work for justifying the legal repression of children.

Communism calls for the destruction of the family and emancipation of youth.
I agree with TC. Something large inside of me just broke.
(TC: no offense meant. Lots of people never agree with you.)

[bcbm]

Originally posted by [email protected] 28, 2006 11:52 am
I haven&#39;t had any immediate involvement with any such programs, I don&#39;t have any doubt they can be very useful in teaching a trade, however I think the theory behind the trades would be better learned in school.
It depends on the trade, really. However, I would say that a formal education in a school setting could be useful, however modern schooling institutions are restrictive and often very prison like, especially the K-12 system. They attempt to mash young people&#39;s minds into more or less cogs for the machinery of post-industrial society and I don&#39;t think that benefits anybody.


Oh, indeed. I must state that I certainly have no problem with any individual dropping out of school once they have received a certain amount of education and/or are of a certain maturity level, and pursuing interests outside the education system. However, to me this website seems to communicate the idea that dropping out of school is inherently good, and therefore that staying in school is inherently bad. This is the point with which I disagree.

I think it is more or less communicating that the present school system is entirely fucked and not at all conducive to free-thinking and independent minds, or breeding such a thing, and is "a resource and a network for other dropouts and any youth who want to get out of school," more than encouraging people one way or the other.

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it is known that kids are less independant, and if a friend smokes, they will follow

Human beings are social animals who thrive on social acceptance: adults will do the same thing. And, furthermore, this isn&#39;t really "proven." The likelyhood increases of kids (or others) doing what their peers do, but many can resist, so you shouldn&#39;t phrase it so absolutely. My friends all drank and smoke in high school, but I refrained.


their bodys arent fully developed so drinking at their age is worse for them

Alcoholism isn&#39;t healthy at any age, but I don&#39;t think anybody drinking in relative moderation would be too destructive.


So some restrictions are essential

Rubbish. Restrictions do nothing to modify the behavior of youth, they only make it more difficult and more dangerous for young people to engage in certain behaviors, instead of being introduced in normal, safe settings as they are in less restrictive and puritan places than the US.

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Communism calls for the destruction of the family and emancipation of youth.

Yup.