Totalitarianism

[Pow R. Toc H.]

In theory, a totalitarian state is perfect because everyone is so controlled that there isnt even any thought of revolution.

but there is no advancement in society. With every aspect of life controlled, you no longer give people the will to be creative or invent, meaning that if you had a totalitarian state that existed for 100 years it would get taken over in an instant because none of its military tactics or weapons would be up to date.

Am I right, or am i way off base?

[Dimentio]

Depends on what you think could be defined as "perfect". Perfection is only an issue of efficiency in reaching the stated goals. For example is the stated goal of market capitalism eternal unrestrained growth, something which they for the moment seems to have partially succeeded with but would produce end results which would destroy all further opportunities for growth or equilibrum.

[KC]

The state is only perfect insofar as it serves the interests of the class which controls it in the most efficient and beneficial way. "Perfect" in terms of the state therefore only exists in terms of the ruling class.

[colonelguppy]

well i think some people might think your conception of perfection is retarded.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2006 09:42 pm
well i think some people might think your conception of perfection is retarded.
Which person's? The OP or KC?

[The Bitter Hippy]

Would a state that didn't advance at all serve the needs of a dictator (the ruling class in one person) perfectly?

Possibly, but only if further advancement in technology would lead to the downfall of the state.

[Guerrilla22]

See Leviathan, by Thomas Hobbes. Reactionary argument if there ever was one.

[Qwerty Dvorak]

In theory, a totalitarian state is perfect because everyone is so controlled that there isnt even any thought of revolution.

but there is no advancement in society. With every aspect of life controlled, you no longer give people the will to be creative or invent, meaning that if you had a totalitarian state that existed for 100 years it would get taken over in an instant because none of its military tactics or weapons would be up to date.

Am I right, or am i way off base?

Correct me if I am wrong but I don't think technological innovation is solely a result of creative freedom, especially not in terms of military technology. Necessity is indeed the mother of invention, and invention and technological advancement can happen under controlled circumstances, e.g. when a group of scientists are ordered by the state to explore a certain area of technology and possibly make an advancement in that area, or to invent something new, with a specific purpose in mind. In this sense a totalitarian state would be just as if not more effective than a democracy in terms of technological innovation, as the state, being in control of everything, know precisely what kind of technological innovation is needed to achieve specific goals, and have the power and the resources at their disposal to set about achieving this innovation.

I think that if you want to discuss the pros and cons of a totalitarian state, you must first discuss its feasibility. Do you (and by that I mean anyone, not just the OP) think a totalitarian state could possibly be established in this day and age? How do you think the people would react? I personally believe that society has progressed past the era of being controlled with an iron fist. However, I believe that it is possible to maintain an almost totalitarian democracy without much opposition from even the more grouchy liberals, by using the limited abilities of the state to manipulate economic and social conditions in order to create a certain consensus amongst the population, as opposed to bludgeoning this consensus in by means of force.

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by The Crying [email protected] 08, 2006 02:20 pm
In theory, a totalitarian state is perfect because everyone is so controlled that there isnt even any thought of revolution.

Am I right, or am i way off base?
How is oppression perfect? In what way would such control truly benefit the people, and be fair to the people? Furthermore as Leftists shouldn't we be fighting for a revolution, and insuring always the right to rebel?

You sound way off base to me.

[Zero]

Oh yes, a 'perfect' state being one who controls all thoughts, aspirations, dreams... To be enforced with the thought police. Don't commit a thoughtcrime now! You may not even know that you did it!

Even in 'theory' (which is an insult to the term) a totalitarian state is attempting the impossible, unless you can scientifically breed out individuality, will, and for all intents and purposes; consciousness, the attempt at being an absolutist over a population is laughable. It's only a matter of time before they look to themselves and realize their own potential, and well... kill you.

[Janus]

In theory, a totalitarian state is perfect because everyone is so controlled that there isnt even any thought of revolution.
That would require a state to perfect their methods of control rather than their method of governance.



but there is no advancement in society.
There would still be advancement but it would only benefit the rulers.

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+November 08, 2006 06:46 pm--> (Jazzratt @ November 08, 2006 06:46 pm)
[email protected] 08, 2006 09:42 pm
well i think some people might think your conception of perfection is retarded.
Which person's? The OP or KC? [/b]
threadstarter orc douchebag

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by colonelguppy+November 09, 2006 06:02 am--> (colonelguppy @ November 09, 2006 06:02 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2006 06:46 pm

[email protected] 08, 2006 09:42 pm
well i think some people might think your conception of perfection is retarded.
Which person's? The OP or KC?
threadstarter orc douchebag [/b]
No need to be aggressive you fucknut.

[colonelguppy]

Originally posted by Jazzratt+November 09, 2006 04:38 am--> (Jazzratt @ November 09, 2006 04:38 am)
Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2006 06:02 am

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2006 06:46 pm

[email protected] 08, 2006 09:42 pm
well i think some people might think your conception of perfection is retarded.
Which person's? The OP or KC?
threadstarter orc douchebag
No need to be aggressive you fucknut. [/b]
no i was referring to the thread starter as an "orc douchebag"

i know i don't use punctuation much but you can assume if i was referring to you i would have put a comma in there somewhere

[Pow R. Toc H.]

There isnt any reason to be a dick. I was just curious what people thought.

[colonelguppy]

being a dick online is fun, that's plenty reason enough

[t_wolves_fan]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2006 09:38 am
No need to be aggressive you fucknut.
:o

Watch it, that much irony could cause the universe to collapse in on itself.

[Jazzratt]

Originally posted by t_wolves_fan+November 13, 2006 09:14 pm--> (t_wolves_fan @ November 13, 2006 09:14 pm)
[email protected] 09, 2006 09:38 am
No need to be aggressive you fucknut.
:o

Watch it, that much irony could cause the universe to collapse in on itself. [/b]
Wow. A yank that understands irony. Christ, the world is progressing.

[Fvck_It]

wow....

[Raisa]

Originally posted by The Crying [email protected] 08, 2006 06:20 pm
In theory, a totalitarian state is perfect because everyone is so controlled that there isnt even any thought of revolution.

but there is no advancement in society. With every aspect of life controlled, you no longer give people the will to be creative or invent, meaning that if you had a totalitarian state that existed for 100 years it would get taken over in an instant because none of its military tactics or weapons would be up to date.

Am I right, or am i way off base?
We already live in a totalitarian state. Thats the thing yall....