My friend hates Communism - and he is from Russia

[CopperGoat]

ok, I have this friend at school. And he is really anti-soviet union, anti-communist, but pro-capitalist. Anyways, he's from Russia, and i tell him that when Russia was Soviet Union, it was a second world country.But now that it's capitalist, it's a third world country. Apparently I keep telling him that, but he either does not understand that, or he tries to ignore it. He says that he is from Russia and that his parents and grandparents were there and still are in russia, when it was soviet union and now capitalist. he tells me how everyone he knew was poor, and that they were not allowed to be rich, or gather lots of money. And he says that now they have an opportunity to get rich. But, i tell him that there is a lot of poverty now in Russia, but he says that everyone was in poverty when it was Soviet Union. I know he is lying sometimes, but what can i say to win the argument? Because no matter how many facts I say against him, he keeps saying..


"I'm from Russia, my parents are from Russia, I think I should know better". It really pisses me off when people use that as an excuse.

[Dirty Jersey]

how is that an excuse?it makes perfect sense for him to know better than you about something hes experienced and im guessing you havent.

[redstar2000]

CG, let's face it. Some people just are not worth wasting your time on.

You're not going to "win" any arguments with him or even get him interested in finding out about what the USSR was really like, good and bad.

Make a new friend.

:cool:

[RedCeltic]

Interesting.....

In the USSR, everyone had health care. Today however people do not, and as a result illness like AIDS and TB are spreading like mad in some of the poorer areas in former soviet republics.

The thing is, when you take Anti-biotics for TB, you need to take them for over a year or so, untill all the TB is out of your body. However, the anti-biotics are expensive so people will take them untill the sympthoms of TB goes away. However it's still in their system, and it comes back as "Super TB" that can not be killed by anti-biotics, and is spread to others just as normal tb.

Education, was once free in the USSR. Today people have to pay for it. In New York City, there are many day laborers who come from former soviet republics, and other soviet block nations such as Poland... that come to make money just to put kids through school. I met one such person from Poland, who cleaned houses for wealthy jewish women in Brooklyn, and sent most of her money back home so her son can go to the unversity.

But hey, yea they now have capitalism, and SOME people are now making alot of money.

[Dirty Jersey]

theres no cure for aids so how would healthcare help in that area. also im pretty sure the reason most of those with aids there have it because of intraveinous drug use. so i guess healthcare would be a good idea. gotta have a clean syringe cause dirty ones give me the shakes. or is that the withdrawals?

[Anonymous]

It is common sense amongst russians, and non russians as well...
that qualitty of life was bether in CCCP than in current capitalist russia..
the BNP and PIB per capita is the prove of it...

just go see the stats, you will notice that were before no one starved, ther was yet some hunger due to bad harvests and a somewhat bad planned economy, now there are severe cases of famine and hunger...

if he keeps saying CCCP is bether nbow then he is a utter moron...
and he deserves nothiong but a severe beating, because honestly, lying is a very ugly thing..
expecially when it is abouyt the history and the life of what suposily is your people...

if the burguase now can freely make fortune and exploit the people, then we must say, yes it is a good capitalist state, for it is serving the burguase and the rulling class well...



i once had a conversation with a (suposely) russian women..
she was 22 i think.. so she was around 10 when CCCP colapsed, anyways, she sayd taht she was very happy becuase CCCP colapsed, and that she had a much bether life after the fall of CCCP (she liked me becuase i was using the nick NOCOMMUNISM or something like taht, i was chating on #usa having a good laugh), then i asked, "oh yea? so tell me, is your life nowdays bether than it was 12 years ago?" she thought for a while and then said.. "not really!" then i asked if she receaved more freedom and liberty of speech after the fall of CCCP, once more she said no, so once again i asked her, "so why do you hate communism and CCCP again?" she couldnt answer...
she hatted communism.. yet why? she couldnt answear...
so it really comes down to a basic stupid anti.communist education propaganda...
people dont like communism and socialism, yet when confronted with the question "why?" they cant find a reasonable argument...

its this sort of stuff that makes our ideology stronger comrades..
against us.. only the burguase and ignorance...
lets erradicate them both....

[CopperGoat]

Well, thanx people. That was a lot of convincing information about CCCP. I can't wait to tell it to him tomorrow. But I am wondering about the freedom of speech thing. So, are you saying that now in Russia, you still can't criticize the government? Because he keeps bragging how now in Russia they won't shoot you if you make fun of the government, unlike in the Soviet Union.

[ELComandante]

when confronted with the question "why?" they cant find a reasonable argument...

That is because of the American scum. They think they rule the world and that their ideas are the good ideas. I have seen a tv show, a guy called communists "freedom haters'. Its all the fault of the americans that communis has a bad name in europe and usa.

[Anonymous]

So, are you saying that now in Russia, you still can't criticize the government? Because he keeps bragging how now in Russia they won't shoot you if you make fun of the government, unlike in the Soviet Union.
BS...
you werent shot or beated everytime you criticied the politburo...
well in stalinists times yes, yet i am speaking of the late 70´s/80´s CCCP...
where you could criticise the politburos decisions and laws..
more, int he earlys 80´s Borgachov even made the glasnot... where he told the truth about the truth regarding to what the politburo did wrong and good in the past..
it was the policy of leting the people know the truth...
the soviet union was very free in the late 80´s... taht was gorbachov policys, liberalize...
yet he also allowed a free market, but this was necessary due to the states incapacity to provide food an other necessetys to the population...
it was bad, but still necessary...

so next time your friend starts *****ing how russia was bad while commie...
beat him...
if necessary to death..
such ignorance cannot be allowed...

[mentalbunny]

Well I don't know much about Russia, except now the Mafia make it hell for pretty much everyone. Someone at my school is the son of someone in the Russian mafia, if you ask him was his dad's job is he says "security", kinda amusing in a sad way.

Good luck, CopperGoat, don't stop trying to educate this guy, looks like he needs it!

[Reuben]

the thing is coppergoat the stats just dont support his persona;l perceptions. The gdp of the Ukraine in 2000 was just 1/3 of the GDP in 1989, and its a similar story for russia

[Anarcho]

The problem with using a GDP as a marker of worth is this.... if you have a higher GDP, but still can't get the basics, such as food and modern health care, are you still better off?

The Soviet era had it's strengths. It taught the people to read, and helped create national identity. Of course, people starved......

There are many accounts of people living in the countryside of Russia with very basic living arrangements. Living in what were essentially huts, with no water and power.... not necessarily in the hinterlands either, but in the outskirts of Moscow.

The USSR had some great things. Industrialization, literacy and health awareness.....

The problems shown in Russia today are the direct results, IMO, of trying to transition to fast from a controlled economy to a free market. China is avoiding this issue, and will probably be pulling ahead of the US in GDP within the next 20 years.

[Iepilei]

funny, I had a friend of mine who was an exchange student from Russia who believed that life was better under the Union.

this was back before I claimed communism for myself.

[Fever]

The claim that communist Russia was never a bad place is crap. Conditions may still be similiar after communism, but at least you don't have to worry about your ass getting dragged off to siberia to spend the rest of your life in the fucking GULAG. Yes, conditions may not be so much better but there are certain libertys that the people of Russia now have that they did not have before. I myself am part Russian, and I have several Russian friends that agree with me on this.

(Edited by Fever at 1:06 am on April 4, 2003)

[Edrian]

Hi, well I can tell you this much - I was a communist for a long time and then I turned to Democracy ( Very Liberal ).
Your friend is CORRECT.
What Stalin had back in the day was Partial truths.
Even the health care which our friend mentioned before - there might have been free health care but there would be one doctor for one town ( later on quotas arranged that but still ).
The reality is that the Soviet Union was VERY poor, and only the supreme representatives received the life you are thinking about.

I do pity the fact that Lenin died, I think he was the real Idealism of communism and he might have actually been the only one that could get it right.

Now for your second question: "How can I convince my friend? "
First of all there is a rule for an argument - if it's about ideals you will never win - all you have to do is show him the other side of communism, because there is a different side to it; that way he will slowly have thoughts about communism and you will actually plant the seeds in his head.

In group psychology they teach people how to make the patient feel "Differently" about the subject - it's like when you say "Friendly Fire" it won't have the same effect as "Our soldiers shot their own" – you need to make things sound better.

Never get mad, and never argue. – Trust me; no one wins in a debate – say your say calmly, firmly, with good body language – act like you truly believe it with all your heart.

Here is a good idea at what you can say that will make him at least seed the ideas of communism in his head.

Communism works in Theory and has worked great in small communities (Kibbutz), it creates a feeling of sharing and equality, it creates stronger love for the country….
Etc…
Now I don't want to say anything that's unrelated but – Democracy already has all those things as well, go Google this and crack your head at this.
I bet you could make some really good points.

[MrDoom]

Hi, well I can tell you this much - I was a communist for a long time and then I turned to Democracy ( Very Liberal ).


Communism works in Theory and has worked great in small communities (Kibbutz), it creates a feeling of sharing and equality, it creates stronger love for the country….
Etc…
Now I don't want to say anything that's unrelated but – Democracy already has all those things as well, go Google this and crack your head at this.

If you're making a distinction between 'holy' democracy and communism then it shows you never were a communist, or at least understood it.