National socialism

[Y Chwyldro Comiwnyddol Cymraeg]

Was Hitler a socialist, or was it a con to win the support of thr working class? But if it was socialism hed av spent more time giving the people control of the means of production as opposed to killing every communist and jew. Does socialism branch from the far left to the far right?

[Demogorgon]

No, he despised socialists. The party was simply called that before he took over.

At any rate, the word the use for socialist in the Nazi's name is actually different from the one Germanb's normally use to refer to socialists.

[commiecrusader]

They chose the name National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) to appeal to everyone, socialist and workers for the working classes, and national for the right wingers I thought.

[Lenin's Law]

They chose the name socialist just as in the way some state-capitalist governments use the word today: to cash in on the moral capital that the word had among working people, especially in that time. Of course Hitler was not a socialist, even a rudimentary definition of the word will tell you that. Furthermore, Hitler persecuted and repressed socialists and communists first at the very beginning upon taking power and it was a huge part of his anti-semitism (the fact that many in the socialist movement happen or happened to be Jews as well)

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2006 12:58 pm
Was Hitler a socialist, or was it a con to win the support of thr working class?
No.


or was it a con to win the support of thr working class?

Perhaps, perhaps not? I suppose we'll never know. What we do know is, that he rejected the concept of class, smashed trade unions, criminalised unemployment and imprisoned and executed anarchists, communists and socialists.


But if it was socialism hed av spent more time giving the people control of the means of production as opposed to killing every communist and jew. Does socialism branch from the far left to the far right?

Any government that controlled the means of production could be described as socialist, but it would be a long shot.

Socialism is traditionally linked to democracy and without one, the other is pointless.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2006 04:13 pm
They chose the name National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) to appeal to everyone, socialist and workers for the working classes, and national for the right wingers I thought.
You're alive :o

[Cryotank Screams]

Originally posted by [email protected] 08, 2006 08:07 am
No, he despised socialists. The party was simply called that before he took over.


No, it was called the german worker's party; hitler himself re-named the party.


Was Hitler a socialist

No.

[commiecrusader]

Originally posted by The Anarchist Tension+November 08, 2006 04:36 pm--> (The Anarchist Tension @ November 08, 2006 04:36 pm)
[email protected] 08, 2006 04:13 pm
They chose the name National Socialist German Workers Party (NSDAP) to appeal to everyone, socialist and workers for the working classes, and national for the right wingers I thought.
You're alive :o [/b]
Lol yes I'm back again. It seems every Summer I leave for a bit but I come back... because I love you... :wub:

[Qwerty Dvorak]

No, he despised socialists. The party was simply called that before he took over.
As Scarlet Hammer pointed out, Hitler was the one who chose to name the party the National Social, or Nazi party.

I'm not sure exactly why he would have named his party a Socialist one, perhaps it was to enable the party to sail on the strong socialist current which had arisen in Germany since the collapse of the German economy, or perhaps the term socialist when used here is a broader term which simply denotes anything other than individualism, but either way it would be ridiculous to assume that Hitler was a Socialist. One of the main points set forth in Mein Kampf was that the evils of Communism and the USSR must be destroyed. Also, the Socialists and Communists were the first political rivals of Hitler's to suffer under his rule. Even before the Enabling Act, which gave Hitler the power to rule by decree, was introduced, Political meetings of Communists and Socialists wer being broken up by the SA. When the Reichstag building was extensively damaged by an act of arson, the responsibility for which noone could prove and many blame on the Nazis, Hitler said it was a Communist plot to take over the country and banned the Communists from campaigning in the election and closed down leftist newspapers. Also, the Communists were some of the first sent to the concentration camps.

[The Feral Underclass]

Meh.

[The Feral Underclass]

Originally posted by [email protected] 09, 2006 01:27 pm
because I love you... :wub:
If only :(



:P

[BobKKKindle$]

I find it best to examine political parties and ideologies in terms of the antagonsisms that are at the heart of their political philosophies and policies. A Socialist party would believe that the fundamental antagonsism of utmost importance is the class antagonsism that exists under Capitalism and all preceeding modes of production, and thus would try and abolish the class difference through revolutionary means.

If one examines the Nazi party, one sees that they did not advocate a class less society, but rather acted as a mediator of class antagonisms by preventing the working class from developing a class consciousness by developing a pseudo-scientific falsely-created race antagonsism between the aryan 'master race' and groups that were viewed as 'inferior'. And simueltaneously, the nazis appealed to the propetied bourgeoisie through destroying any potential for syndicalist opposition through the integration of the trade union movement and the state (not unlike Lenin in a way) under the 'Strength through job movement', in addition to the promise to restore germany to its former greatness.

Thus, one can clearly see that the Nazi party was in no way socialist. Note that I do not deny that the Nazis improved the material conditions of the majority of proletarians. But this has been done successfully by a range of governments, and we must recognize that any change short of a revolutionary change in the mode of production is not socialist yet falls under what Lenin described in State and Revolution as 'the mediation of class struggle'.

[encephalon]

If you read Mein Kampf, you'll find that Hitler admits that he added the "socialist" part to lure radicals to the nazi party. You can find many translations of it online, including an english translation. His stated goal (which succeeded, sadly) was to gain support from the working class by making it appear as though his party was socialist, which as said above was very popular in post-WWI Germany.

It's an unfortunate misrepresentation of socialism, and one we're still fighting against today--even in the United States.

[inquisitive_socialist]

its been a long standing misconception that people have worked hard to eliminate. socialism and nazis are VERY much opposed. here in the US, groups promoting hate and anti-semitism, or just outright racism towards all are rallying under this flag of national socialism, and its almost ridiculous to think, but they have a strong underground movement simply becuasr of how much ignorance and hate is present in the US. I went to a punk show recently and saw people wearing quite proudly their swastikas. it goes without saying they got tossed, but its not a good sign when a fairly anti-hate scene like pukn rock is again dealing with skinheads and hatemongers.

[ZX3]

National Socialism is a form of socialism. Hitler, and others who insisted they were socialists, accuartely described their party.

A couple of misperceptions:

1. Hitler did not name the party. It was originally named the German Workers Party, and members of the German national Socialist party, a party which had existed in the Austrian Empire, arrived in Munich and plied the German Workers with their programme and ideology. Hitler preferred the name "Social Revolutionaries."

2. It is true that Hitler rejected class based theories in favor of national, or race based theories. Rather than all workers should unite, the nazis argued that all Germans should unite. However, the idea that such views are far apart is not the case. Nationalism has always been a part of socialism, at the very base level because there is no other way for socialism to have any sort of concrete value. "Workers of the world, unite" is a nice slogan, but it has no practicallity as an organising principle. People are going to organise on the local level, amongst people who are of the same language, culture, share the same history ect. They can't get to uniting the world's workers without that step. This is why nationalism and socialism are closely intertwined.

3. The nazis and communists frequently were on the same side of issues during the weimar republic. Their membership always moved between each other, and Hitler himself allowed Communists (and members of no other party) to join the nazis after 1933. Fascist Italy was the same way, as that country was the second country to recognise the USSR.

4. Why the fighting between the National Socialists and the International Socialists? Well, one only needs to read the divivsions on this website between members to recognise the fiction that all socialist parties see eye to eye. Or even that all socialists agree that the other guy who claims to be a socialist is a socialist. Or see that threats of violence directed against the enemies of a their particular socialist party is seen as a positive and essential by many as a way, even essential, of promoting and advancing socialism.