the Brown Berets

[Rawthentic]

I have been reading on the history of the Chicano rights movement, me being a Chicano with a desire to learn my history. I have recently discovered that the Brown Berets have been resurrected, in Salt Lake City, Dallas, and Watsonville, CA which is about 30 minutes from me. I am contemplating joining them, but I have a problem.

I am a revolutionary, as well as the Brown Berets are, but I feel that joining then would alienate whites from the cause, something that I dont want. Also, the Berets are not nationalist, it is a group where one recognizes their cultural identity that has been stolen from them in America.

What do y'all think? Do you think that this would be a good thing?

[violencia.Proletariat]

I don't think these groups exist to make their race/identity more important. I think they exist to address the specific problems that their group faces.

[Rawthentic]

Good, I was hoping that they had no separatist mentality. thanks

[LoneRed]

I would suggest reading intensively on them, see what you can find, and critically analyze their position before joining. Im also interested in what you find, so post it here.

[The Grey Blur]

What's a Chicano?

[which doctor]

Originally posted by Permanent [email protected] 04, 2006 09:40 pm
What's a Chicano?
Someone of mexican or hispanic heritage. It's often used my mexican americans in southwest America.

[bcbm]

Originally posted by FoB+November 04, 2006 09:06 pm--> (FoB @ November 04, 2006 09:06 pm)
Permanent [email protected] 04, 2006 09:40 pm
What's a Chicano?
Someone of mexican or hispanic heritage. It's often used my mexican americans in southwest America. [/b]
Not exactly. Chicano is related to ethnicity but, more than that, it is a political identity. It isn't interchangable with, say, Latino.

[which doctor]

Originally posted by black banner black gun+November 04, 2006 10:25 pm--> (black banner black gun @ November 04, 2006 10:25 pm)
Originally posted by [email protected] 04, 2006 09:06 pm

Permanent [email protected] 04, 2006 09:40 pm
What's a Chicano?
Someone of mexican or hispanic heritage. It's often used my mexican americans in southwest America.
Not exactly. Chicano is related to ethnicity but, more than that, it is a political identity. It isn't interchangable with, say, Latino. [/b]
Yeah, I was thinking of how it's related to identity, especially many political groups, but I forgot to mention it.

[OneBrickOneVoice]

http://blackandbrownpower.blogspot.com/

This blogger is part of the Brown Berets and posted a summary of the Brown Beret's history.

[Rawthentic]

A Chicano is not a Mexican American from the Southwest, but a national figure, as he is all over this country. That is a common misconception. The Chicanos in the north and somewhat regionally separated from the southwest, but we are nonetheless brothers.

The Brown Berets are nationalist, I'm sorry for the confusion, but not in a reactionary way at all. We see it as the process of oppressed people to control their communities and lives. I'm reading a book called Chicano Manifesto which traces the story of the Chicano from the first American settlers thousands of years ago to the Chicano in the US struggling for identity.

[BreadBros]

Hastalavictoria is right, there are Mexican-Americans all over the US, with a huge population in Chicago in particular, saying specifically from the Southwest is incorrect.

In summation the Brown Berets of the 60s (cant speak about the organization today as I know nothing of it to be honest) was sort of a Mexican-American version of the Black Panthers (and yes, I know its a disservice to make such basic comparisons, but Im just using it to give people some scope). Its somewhat nationalist in that its constituted of a group of oppressed people but it was overall progressive and not reactionary, it sided with left-wing movements.

[Cryotank Screams]

it is a group where one recognizes their cultural identity that has been stolen from them in America.

Sounds an awfully reminiscent of what white nationalism is, and what white nationalists say, ;) . Furthermore I am very cautious about "revolutionary," groups that are based around a certain race, cultural, and such.

[Rawthentic]

Im not sure what you mean, but you're wrong. In America, the Mexican American is stereotyped as lazy, treacherous, and dirty. Most times the Chicano swallows what they are thrown at by the white dominated society. The Chicano movement is the recognition of ones history and ones pride in being who he is. That is not reactionary at all. The Chicano movement does not seek to be separated from any other race or culture, just the respect for what it is.

[Tekun]

I used to have an interest in the Brown Berets...but that's b4 I stumbled upon communism
I agree that they are radical and non-reactionary, however the thing that bothered me about them was their insistence on culture and on one ethnic group
They respect all ethnicities, but their activities revolve around the Latino community and their problems (gang activities, incarceration, exploitation, immigration,...)
They focus on problems which affects us all, but they mainly seek to remedy only the Latino community
In addition, I really doubt that their agenda or ideology is socialist or communist
Sure, they prolly have some anarchists, some communists, and some socialists
But as whole, their organization is focused on improving the lives of Latinos, and not of empowering workers of all colors
To a certain degree they've advocated nationalist policies, such as brown businesses, brown governments, brown schools, and the like

I like discovering my culture and reading up on it once in a while
But Im not obsessed in learning Quiche or in adopting the Mayan calendar

[rouchambeau]

Sounds an awfully reminiscent of what white nationalism is, and what white nationalists say, . Furthermore I am very cautious about "revolutionary," groups that are based around a certain race, cultural, and such.

Yeah, it sounds similar, but there is one big difference; non-whites are not the ones in the position of power. They are not trying to further or preserve their privilege (if it could even be said that they have any) like white power groups are.

[Rawthentic]

Of course they insist on empowering the Latinos, just like the Black Panthers did. They are revolutionary and do not support petty-bourgeios businesses, but the people from the barrio who face poverty and discrimination. It also focuses on giving an avenue to gangs by giving them an identity which has been lost. It clearly says that all those who fight for social justice are welcome to join the Brown Berets.

No, they are not "pork-chop nationalists", I already explained what they meant by "nationalism".

[BrownBeretSLC]

I just want to say a couple of things.

1. The term Chicano, now usually spelled Xicano, is no longer used as a term to describe a certain nationality. Its is used as a term for a culturally, politically and socially conscious latino of any country. Its a idea based on a ideology not a nationality. The spelling with a X is a symbol of our indigenous roots. Learning Nahuatl is not a requirement since it wasnt the only language in these lands. My roots come from the Ki'che Maya not from the Mexica for example. I am stil in the process of leaning Nahuatl but as a personal thing. I didn't get here on the nina, pinta or santa maria. I dont aknowladge the rape of my people as ok. I am Indigenous, Maya and Xicano. I am politicaly an Internationalist.

2. The Brown Berets are nationalist only in the sense that was pushed forward by Malcolm X in his last year of life. Its a sort of a transitional nationalism. Transitional towards a socialist society. We realize that the hispanic bourgosie is also the enemy. Nationalists really isnt the best word to describe the Berets but it is the closest.

3. Every Brown Beret chapter is autonomous. So some chapters are more explicitly socialist than others. I consider myself a socialist so I am more openly socialist than other Berets. Not all Brown Berets are socialists since it is not a requirment of membership. You do have to have a love for the people and a willingness to defend the community by any means neccessary and since most latinos are workers and sometimes the biggest enemy is a rich latino then you end up fighting for worker rights without knowing it.

4. The nationalism of the oppressed is completly differrent from the nationalism of the oppressor. When a Black or Latino are nationalists it is a reaction to the racism and oppression of the majority population. Remember that Latinos and Blacks have been in a system that considers them inferior for over 500 years. We have been told we are less that human and nationalism is an expression of the reeducation of our people. Its is a way for us to be proud of who we are. Black and Brown Power does not me anti-white. For those 500+ years whites have had a superiority complex that continues on to this day. Its so ingrained that some whites believe in the myth of reverse racism, when ever colored people express their self-worth they feel its an attack on them. Same with sexism for that matter. There is so such thing as reverse sexism.

5. Why do nationalist tendencies exist? Its is foolish and ignorant to think that the minorities in this nation should wait for the white working class to realize that the colored people are their friends and help create a revolution. Oppressed nationalities who fight for their people are involved in a working class struggle that is necessary since they cannot wait for the revolution to better their lives. If the Black Power movement would have said, " Lets wait till white folks decide we need to be treated with respect." we would still be living in an (legal) aparthied country.

6. Refering to us as Brown Black Panthers is simplistic but fine. We are in complete solidarity with the Black Power Movement. Black and Brown Power!!! UHURU!!!

In other words the Xicano movement is not only for latinos but it is a movement based on the social and economic reality that Xicano/Latino people live with. Its a true expression of on the ground fighting. It might not have a openly communist agenda but the struggle for latino workers right will inevitably be a struggle for workers rights in general. It is a true revolutionary movement that is born of the neccessities of the Xicano community.

www.brownberets.info (Watsonville Chapter)
www.brownberetslc.ifo (Salt Lake Chapter)

[Floyce White]

BrownBeretSLC: "The nationalism of the oppressed is completly differrent from the nationalism of the oppressor."

We cry for the poor, oppressed, wannabe rulers.

As I said in Against Liberalism--For Communism (http://www.geocities.com/antiproperty/index.html#A12):

The approach of these...movements is to increase the political power of small capitalists--that is why communists refer to them as petty-bourgeois movements.

Many working-class people participate in various petty-bourgeois movements. We discover political people who mouth “anti-capitalism” but never advocate direct workers’ takeover of the workplace, direct tenants’ takeover of rental and mortgage housing, direct homeless takeover of empty buildings or land, direct neighborhood takeover of stores, or any action that can immediately end property relations. We feel a burning hatred of the rich, but the rich brats who go slumming in leftist movements tell us there is no anti-property solution. Their revolution is the despicable revolving door, where our struggle is used to help small capitalists replace big capitalists as the ruling exploiters. Forgotten is the principle of worldwide workers’ solidarity against all capitalists. Forgotten is the method of listening most to the ordinary nobody. Instead, insults are used to divide working-class people--such as the idea that homeless, sick, and hungry poor whites somehow benefit from racism and imperialism. As obviously fascist as is the movement for “white power,” many radical-liberal and socialist organizations endorse and promote “black power” and other segregation movements. Day-to-day activism confirms the simple fact that broadly-inclusive organizations are controlled by their purse strings. Multi-class committees mean money-dominated politics.

The concept of niche oppression lingers as a stench of death over the liberal-oriented socialist movement. All of the devices that capitalists use to divide workers are resurrected as sacred cows: nationality, religion, sexual revolution, supposed “race” or “ethnicity,” and so on. In this way, the landlord always claims to be more oppressed than his tenants, since he points out plenty of ways that the culture and organization of bigger capitalists restrict his ability to do whatever he pleases. The small employer who practices vegetarianism is supposedly “progressive” while his junk-food-eating employees are “backwards.” Liberal ideas are reflected in all the current socialist theories, such as the jargon of “triple-layered oppression” or the line that “workers can’t win by themselves.” The purely-commercial leftism displayed on the Third Street Promenade in Santa Monica or on Telegraph Avenue in Berkeley is the suicidal end point of liberalism in the workers’ movement. We must totally break from liberalism and differentiate ourselves from liberals. We must unite against the rich--and especially against liberal, pro-capitalist ideology within the movements for social change.

[Tekun]

BBSLC:

1.
I am politicaly an Internationalist.

2.
2. The Brown Berets are nationalist only in the sense that was pushed forward by Malcolm X in his last year of life. Its a sort of a transitional nationalism. Transitional towards a socialist society. We realize that the hispanic bourgosie is also the enemy. Nationalists really isnt the best word to describe the Berets but it is the closest.
A lil confused are we? :huh:
In addition, since the BB's are somewhat nationalist, what type of exclusive nationalist policies do u advocate? Are there any which unite working class men/women around the world?

3. The Hutterian Bretheren are socialist, that doesn't mean they want to empower the workers and destroy capitalism
So it doesn't matter how you're organized, but rather the goals behind your organization

4. Nothing wrong with rediscovering who u are, just as long as u keep fighting for workers

5.
Why do nationalist tendencies exist? Its is foolish and ignorant to think that the minorities in this nation should wait for the white working class to realize that the colored people are their friends and help create a revolution. Oppressed nationalities who fight for their people are involved in a working class struggle that is necessary since they cannot wait for the revolution to better their lives. If the Black Power movement would have said, " Lets wait till white folks decide we need to be treated with respect." we would still be living in an (legal) aparthied country.
So nationalist tendencies are slowly eroding? Is that it? Seeing how racism has begun to slowly erode amongst the working class, are the BB's rejecting brown culturalism and nationalism?

6.
Refering to us as Brown Black Panthers is simplistic but fine. We are in complete solidarity with the Black Power Movement. Black and Brown Power!!! UHURU!!!
I dare to ask...contradiction? :rolleyes:
In addition, the Black Power Movement is no longer socialist (if it ever was)
So therefore, the BB's are aligned with an exclusively nationalist movement that only educates a person on their heritage, all while accepting wage slavery?


To sum it up, does the agenda of the Brown Berets include the goal of a dictatorship of the proletariat and then the withering away of money, class, and the state?
Or are they only interested in rediscovering their culture, fighting for "justice" in a capitalist society, and looking for a remedy to the brown community's social ills?

If your agenda includes the former, then we're with u
If it rejects the former and advocates the latter, stay around and learn some more about communism

[BrownBeretSLC]

1.
A lil confused are we?
In addition, since the BB's are somewhat nationalist, what type of exclusive nationalist policies do u advocate? Are there any which unite working class men/women around the world?

Wasnt Lenin a Internationalist and didn't he also support the right of the oppressed nationalities in the Soviet Union to decide if they wanted seperate nation if they did so collectively?

Thats the Nationalist policies the Berets advocate. The right of Latinos to decide their own destinies and lives. Chicano control of the Chicano community. Remember rich latinos dont live in the 'hood with us so the ones who will decide how we run our communities are working class latinos. Its a working class struggle. We also advocate the creation of a independent Chicano party that is against the Democrats as much as the republicans and also support the Labor Party if it grows. Just so that you know whites are allowed in the Brown Berets. There are two white men in our chapter. Read the Code of Conduct of the Berets at www.brownberets.info and you will see we arnt a strickly latino organization.

Lenin understood that and so did the Bolsheviks. He understood that Russia was a colonial power that controlled minorities unjustly and one of his slogans during the Russian Revolution was Self-Determination for those nationalities. Yet white so-called radicals in the U.S attack oppressed nationalities as petty-bourgousie instead of supporting their struggles and U.S. latino so-called radicals also do since they are just regurgitating what white so-called radicals have told them. Lenin understood the difference between the nationalism of Russians, which was reactionary, and the nationalism of the minorities, which was progressive and helped break the back of the tsarist government. U.S radicals need to do the same or they will never accomplish their supposed goal of a socialist world.

2. Every single Power movement has been in complete solidarity with and supports other struggles that oppressed nationalities live in. Even the Black Panthers, were involved in the Rainbow Coalition in the late 60's which included a group call the Young Patriots that was a WHITE poor working class group from the Appalachians.

3. Instead of attecking the colored minority who is being descriminated against maybe you should try to educate the white working class about why they should support our anti-racist agenda. Its has been the traditions of Bolshevism to support the right of self-determination of the oppressed nationalities. I take offense to being told to learn Communism when the person who is educating me on it is obviously not a scientific Marxist. You sound like somebody who is not completely in touch with the working class. Have you been in the working class neighborhoods where WHITE workers are telling their fellow brown workers to go back to mexico? Have you seen when the WHITE workers are calling latinos Wetbacks, Beaners, Spics, Illegals? Did you forget that it was WHITE workers who lyched Blacks?

I am comfused with your idealogy. Should the black and latino workers sit back, turn the other cheek and allow WHITE WORKERS to discriminate against them OR should they lead the workers movement by fighting for their own rights as human beings? Why hasnt Marxism really struck a cord with Blacks and Latinos? Why is it that most political parties are packed full of whites? Its because unlike the Bolsheviks who where real socialists, the so-called socialist movement in the U.S. cannot see the perspective of the black and latino workers. You spit Marxist dogma without a true connection with the woring class.

Lenin had blazed the trail on how the nationalism of the oppressed relates to socialism. He taught that nationalism of the oppressed in a distorted expression of class consciousness – an organic part of the class struggle. The Bolsheviks called for unequivocal solidarity by the workers with the struggles of any oppressed nationality for freedom, justice and equality. After Lenin’s death, Trotsky carried on this defense of true proletarian internationalism and class solidarity.

Attacking the movement of Blacks and Latinos to organize independently and fight for their rights would be a violation of the right of oppressed people to determine their fate, going against what Lenin belived in. It would also make Black and Latinos question the commitment of revolutionary socialists to a united working class based on true equality since you are basically saying that screw the discrimanation you are felling and ignore the fact that you make much less that whites. You are ignoring the basic facts of life in the U.S. We do not live in a country where all workers are the same so the nationalist struggle is a fight to do just that. Create a unified equal working class who can then fight for socialism.

Read "The Last Year of Malcolm X" by George Brietman and learn about the philosophy of the Transitional and Revolutionany anti-capitalist pro-socialist nationalism that you know so little about. Malcolm’s thinking in his last year confirmed that there is no contradiction between Black and Chicano nationalism and proletarian internationalism.

You say you support workers rights. Support the right of Black and Chicano Workers to a better life and to decided their own destinies. Black and Latinos have been waiting for 500+ years for the white working class to see us as equals. The main barrier in creating a socialist revolution is the racism of the white working class who continues to deny the fact that Blacks and Latinos are their Brothers and Sisters.

The Brown Berets are not a Bolshevik party we are a organization fighting for the rights of the Chicano/Latino people in the U.S. We are fighting to better the lives of our people with transitional demands that cant wait around like food, clothes and shelter. Since we are not a Bolshevik party don't measure the Berets by how they stack up to Marxist theory. Measure the Berets on what they are doing for the people and what they are doing to raise the class conciousness of the minorities. If you measure us by the latter then you will see that we are doing more than any so-called Bolshevik party. We are in the streets preaching liberation through our program which is for the creation of workers councils(Soviets). We are in the neighboor hoods educating latinos on why capitalism isnt working for them. We are involved in helping Unions to try to educate white workers on why they should support Latino rights. We arent coffee shop revolutionaries. We are true revolutionaries fighting in the front lines. We dont ask for your support but dont be condecending. We know what we are doing. I hope you all support the Chicano Rights/Power movement.

[Floyce White]

BrownBeretSLC: "Should the black and latino workers sit back, turn the other cheek and allow WHITE WORKERS to discriminate against them...?"

That's a revealing statement.

I've had dozens of jobs. Not a single one of them ever allowed the non-management employees any say whatsoever in who to hire, who to fire, what wages to pay, when to give promotions, or the like.

In your mind, the managers are "the workers." It's pretty clear you've never had a job (except perhaps in your family business). Birthday 7 November 1984? Wow! That's pretty old to be so ignorant of the workplace.

[Tekun]

U never answered my question....
Do the Brown Berets advocate and fight for the dictatorship of the prole and then the subsequent withering away of the state, class, and money?
Or are they only concerned with empowering Latinos at the political, economic, and social level?

I'll get to the rest of your post later ;)

[BrownBeretSLC]

Floyce White: Are you oblivious to the current anti-immigrant anti-latino sentiment in the United States? If you cant see the way that immigrants are being attacked then you are the one who is completely out of touch with everything. I wasnt speaking on the bosses racism, which I assumed was just a given. I was speaking on the racism of workers against workers in society. You twisted what I was attempting to discuss. The racism ingrained in the white workers in and out of the workplace. And also most white so-called Radicals. If I wanted to discuss descrimination on the job site by management I would have been clear about that. Read what I wrote well and quit trying to dismiss my arguments by taking what I said out of context and using it as a personal attack, thats a cheap way of playing at politics. Also you assume that a unemployed person is in the middle class. Most unemployed are poor workers who cant get a job (since the system profits from unemployment) even more so with Latinos and Blacks. You, of course, have no grasp of the situation faced by Colored Workers which is more than apparent by your posts in this section.

Tecun: I did answer your question just in round about way. The answer is we are both. We fight for a socialist society and we fight to empower Latinos at the political, economic, and social level. Heres the 11 Point Program/ What we fight for:
1. Self-Determination
2. Workers & Farmers Rights
3. Feminism & Equality
4. Justice
5. Education
6. Environmental Protection
7. Open Borders and Legalization
8. End U.S Imperialism
9. Solidarity with Cuban Revolution
10. Independent [email protected] Party
11. Workers Democracy

Here the discription of the last point:

Workers Democracy

We are militants in the class struggle and advocate a society that has equal social and economic rights for all. Also the workers, who are the producers of all the wealth in the U.S, should be in control of their lives and the nation through the creation of large Workers Councils to make sure that all people are granted their basic human rights. The right to free quality education, food, clothes and shelter, free and universal health care, must be granted to all people. We know that [email protected] liberation can only be accomplished with the destruction of capitalism.
For a Workers State!!!

Unlike some so-called Communists, we believe in bettering the lives of people while fighting for the socialist future. We arent abstract preachers qouting passeges from Marx or Lenin while people are starving. We are in the hood educating the people through our actions and program. Like I said earlier, these two struggles are not competing. We can better the lives of latinos and blacks while fighting for a socialist society.
(Remember every chapter of the Berets in autonomous. I am giving you the program for the Salt Lake City Chapter. The Watsonville Chapter is also great at seeing this corelation. I am not as familiar with the other chapters to tell you their political line.)

[tebvie]

To some these labels like chicano, latino, Mexican, hispanic, what not are terms that imply some sort of mentally and identity. You cannot label someone a chicano that does not have the mentality of one. I know some refer to chicanoism as being informed you are because you know. It's a complicated thing and it involves a lot of history and caste system stuff the current society and our place in it all that good stuff.