Irish America and Albany New York - Another center of Irish-

[RedCeltic]

"So adieu, my dear father, adieu, my dear mother,
Farewell, to my sister, farewell to my brother;
I am bound for America, my fortune to try -
When I think on Bunclody, I'm ready to die."

ANON. 'The Streams of Bunclody'.

And come they did. Many came to work in the Troy shirt factories, others to build the New York State Canal System. Some became involved in politics - an historical list of local and state politicians reads like a Dublin telephone directory. The strong local Irish American population has never forgotten their roots. The Ancient Order of Hibernians has four local chapters - Albany, Schenectady, Troy and Watervliet and there were traditional step dancing schools throughout the area long before anyone had heard of River Dance.

The Irish American Heritage Museum, located south of Albany in East Durham, is dedicated to recording and presenting the history and heritage of the Irish in America. St. Patrick's Day's is the one day of the year that the Irish, the little bit Irish and the Irish for a day, come out in full force to celebrate - and to remember.

[peaccenicked]

RC. nice post. I think you would like this link
http://www.bradford.ac.uk/acad/diaspora/

[RedCeltic]

Hey, that's a great website Peaccenicked, I bookmarked it so I can read through it more when I have more time. :)

It's interesting how many Irish are here in the City of Albany. Although I personally grew up close to Irish-American traditions and culture (not to be confused with Irish culture in Ireland which is a different thing) ... My town was actually mostly Italian and Hispanic. Albany is quite the opposite, and is simmilar to Boston and parts of New York City that are still mostly centers of Irish-American culture.

[peaccenicked]

RC Irish culture in Ireland is very hetrogeneous. I am
sure a good night out in Albany is better than a bad night out in Ireland. I go to Monaghan on holiday occaisionally and to Irish evenings in Glasgow.
I say that Irishmen and women everywhere love their heritage equally.:smile:

[canikickit]

Ireland is overrated.

Anyone ever read that book, "McCarthy's Bar"? I was given it as a present, and I enjoyed it despite my cynicism about it.

It's perhaps a nice break from more serious political stuff.


Irish culture in Ireland is very hetrogeneous.

Yeah, I was asked once by someone on the internet to tell them "what my culture was like". It's not really an easy task - in the US Irish people are a distinct group, but for me, practically everyone I know is Irish, it's difficult to distinguish what my culture "is". Mostly drinking, I guess.

[RedCeltic]

It's not really an easy task - in the US Irish people are a distinct group, but for me, practically everyone I know is Irish

This is exactly what I'm talking about and why I try to point out that "Irish Americans" aren't trying to be the same thing as er... Irish in Ireland... But rather, a whole distinct culture in the United States centers around pereservation of roots, heritige, and being part of an ethnic group.

It's the same as Polish people, and other groups. The Poles in America for example where able to preserve the Polka dance while the practice was squashed in Stalinist Poland. Now... American Polka dance is being introduced to Poland... how odd is that?

Well in the same tolken, Irish American culture influenced Irish culture.... For example... Alot of songs like the one I opened this thread with are songs about going to America, or how they miss Ireland.

Another thing I find interesting is that the Irish have taken to celebrating St. Patrick's day! I had always heard that in Ireland it was just another Saint's day, while in the United States it became the first display of ethnic solidarity, and was important to identify with being Irish, while in Ireland such things where banned by the English.

In the University I attend, one could major in Judeic studies, Latin American Studies, Russian Studies, etc... I think it would be interesting one day to have a department in a university dedicated to the Irish People, how they have scattered all over the planet, and what simmilarities and differences there are among them.

[peaccenicked]

RC. Maith thu pronounced in the north as moy who
The second t is so soft you can bearly hear it. (thats why I ommit it.
Health to you
Part of the present struggle for the Irish in Britain has been to get Irish into the schools and universities. We have had successes particularly in Manchester and London.

[canikickit]

This is exactly what I'm talking about

I know man, I hope you didn't interpret that as an attempt to start an argument, just a general comment.

Interesting about Paddy's day, RC. Although it hasn't been recent, it has been "celebrated" here for all my life at least.


Alot of songs like the one I opened this thread with are songs about going to America, or how they miss Ireland.

On thing I find very interesting; a lot of Irish traditional songs have the exact sam subject matter as old blues songs, or traditional Carribean songs.

For example there is the song "Seven Drunken Nights" (you probably know it) which the Dubliners often performed, my brother swears there is a song by some old blues singer (whose name I forget) about the same thing (I haven't heard it yet though).

There is also the song "Shame and Scandal" which Peter Tosh did in Jamaica in the sixties. I've heard the same song sung in pubs over here.

Here are the lyrics (to Peter's version):

In Trinidad, there was a family, much confusion as you will see
It was a mama and a papa and a boy who was grown
Wanted to marry and have wife of his own
Found a young girl, who suited him nice
Went to his papa to ask his advice
His papa said son, I have to say no
That girl is your sister but your mama don't know

Wohohoho, it's real, shame and scandal in the family
Wohohoho, it's real, shame and scandal in the family
A week went by and the summer came down
Soon the best cook in the islands he found
He went to his papa, to make a day
His papa shook his head and to him he did say
You can't marry that girl, I have to say no
That girl is your sister, but your mama don't know
Wohohoho, it's real, shame and scandal in the family
Wohohoho, it's real, shame and scandal in the family

Went to his mama, and thought what he said
And told his mama, what his papa had said
His mama she laughed she says, go man go
Your daddy ain't your daddy, but your daddy don't know
Wohohoho, it's real, shame and scandal in the family
Wohohoho, it's real, shame and scandal in the family
Wohohoho, it's real, shame and scandal in the family
Ooh [oh], it's real, shame and scandal in the family
Ooh, it's real, shame and scandal in the family [mmmh]
Ooh, it's real...

Funny stuff, at least I think so.

[peaccenicked]

Cannikickit, I know what you mean, there is much universality in painful separarion. This is one of my own efforts.


A Farewell to Erin

an hour is a lang, lang time
when sweet it is remembered
a tune that fill'd the mountain pass
the moment that we enter'd


the weary warld is owre too sma'
the seasons mair the pity
A smile o'glee and enchantment
amidst the dole dank city


A poets blessed wi'many things
but canny count on money
nae spoken word within ma dream
I wish tae take that journey


Though devious pleasures can be sought
and certus there are plenty
I'm happier with a single thought
happier far wi' twenty


Now the transient tune must fade
and memories live to ponder
to tap the well of life's long spring
and lea'e us free tae wander




(Edited by peaccenicked at 3:53 am on Mar. 15, 2003)

[canikickit]

I like it, Peacce. Are you of Irish decent as well?

That's really good, what you wrote. Did you write it as a song, or a poem? I can definitely hear that being sung, very much in the traditional style.


there is much universality in painful separarion

True indeed, I think there is also a more tangible reason. I have read about there being a lot of white slaves being sent to both the Carribean and the US from Britain. They were mainly of Welsh, Scottish and Irish origin. I can't remember the specifics of it, it was actually something I want to reasearch more, and was thinking of only yesterday.

http://www.linguistlist.org/issues/2/2-565.html

Here is an article which mentions something along those lines. It is more concerned with the linguistic influence. I found it interesting.

I have read or heard quite a bit about some sort of "mythical" connection between the Irish and Jamaicans - something which intruiges me, given my taste in music.

I think it makes sense, in a way - hundreds of years of oppression and tribulation can perhaps have a lasting effect on the psyche of a people.

I don't know whether I beleive that their is such athing as a "national conscience" but I thin, to look at the number of Irish people here; it is higher than proportional - or is that just me?

[peaccenicked]

My dad was from Ballybay Monaghan. He was quite a character.
This is his obit from the Glasgow Herald
http://www.theherald.co.uk/obituaries/arch...01-22-3-28.html (http://www.theherald.co.uk/obituaries/archive/13-12-19101-22-3-28.html)
I bought him him a book on the Irish Diaspora before his stroke we both loved it. I cant remember the author.[very famous]
There was bits in it on Che, much the same was written by John lee Anderson big bio.
My song goes to the tune of "The wind that shakes the barley'. Me ma loved it.

There is an historical memory precious enough to preserve but also it is always in need of regeneration.
The good stuff does not die,it just changes form and spreads accross the breadth of time, to be rediscovered.
It is only national in that everything has a context of locality.
It is hard to write without imparting that locality, it should not make us overly self conscious.

[canikickit]

Wow. Thanks for posting that Peacce, it was really cool. A few cousins of mine went to Roscrea.



It is only national in that everything has a context of locality.

Yes. Well said.